patrick.net

Harm,

Good points. And you are right, I would not dream of going without medial coverage. I put that on the list of must buys. But then, I have the advantage of TriCare Prime.

My experiences are different than yours. Most of my American relatives are firmly working class, and none have any trouble getting getting medical treatment.. My brother has no employer provided coverage for his 8 year old son, so he buys coverage for $238/mo. True, it has a $1,000 deductable, so a broken bone can set him back a bit. But so would a new alternator. My wife taught school that included kids from the projects. I used to visit the projects with her and found that medical care was free for the residents. I know several women who have got breast implants, all who have working class incomes. I have also visited several of my companies independent contractor Taxi Drivers at the hospital (heart attacks, cancer, and other issues related to smoking or poor diet and exercise habits). My mom got excellent treatment at a local hosptal after a car accident, where she stayed several days in a private room, hooked up to medical equipment that reminded me of the old Star Trek sick bay. Since she is over 65, Medicare paid for it. I also have hillbilly relatives in central Virginia that drift between jobs, but all their kids were born in hospitals and they seem to get the medical treatment they bother to go in for.

Yes, we can do better. But Universal and Free is not the answer. We want to preserve the high quality and avoid the moral hazard. That is, if people had to pay a deductable, maybe they would be less inclined to smoke and be more inclined to exercise. You also do not want the medical system becoming like the DMV, with long lines and poor service.

I do agree with you that medical coverage should be portable. Perhaps employers could offer to pay part or all of a private or federal insurance as part of job compensation.

"It seems that the general argument goes something like, “our rich people are richer than your rich people, therefore our system is better”. Duh. "

My specific point was that Euro rich may be better catered to than US rich, to counter the argument about less Euro class distinction. Thus the example of so many Euro makes of seriously exclusive cars. I said our WORKING CLASS are better of economically then their WORKING CLASS, and gave examples to back it up.

The "our rich are richer" was not even implied, and is actually counter to my point. DUH.

"Health care? Fewer of their babies die, and they live longer and with fewer ‘episodes’. Their late-life years are comparatively active, the incidence of diabetes, arthritis, cancer and obesity is notably lower than our own. Against all that, I don’t put too much weight on how many MRI facilities they operate. "

True. But you seem to be talking about lifestyle habits. You will find that the higher US infant mortality is related to substance abuse by the mothers, not lack of medical care. If Americans had European habits on exercise and food consumption, we would have similar levels of the ailments you mention. That has nothing to do with the quality and quantity of medical treatment.

No affordability issue here. As an American, you can chose to eat responsibly and exercise for about the same price as a European.

Headset, your point is perfectly sound and deals neatly with the usual observation that Europe as a whole spends less on health care per capita than we do and with superior results. So far as I know, no one has quantified the differences in personal choices in a convincing way. Still, this doesn't leave us in a reliably superior position.

I just hope that when (if) we get around to reexamining our options, we are sharp enough to look at practices elsewhere and co-opt the best of them. Socialized medicine is done in many different ways - it's not been harmonized across the EU - so rating our conventions wholesale against those of Canada or France or the whole of Europe is a fool's errand. And skipping over, say, Luxembourg or the Netherlands because of scaling questions may mean that smart, effective approaches go unnoticed.

I'm afraid I just can't join in the certainty that our much-beloved homeland has the best of it all, much as I'd like to.

It really doesn't matter why Europeans are healthier, they are.

I'm going to guess that the omnipresence of fast food chains, high fructose corn syrup junk food and soda, trans fats, and dominance of car had something to do with America's unhealthiness.

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_6201817

S.J. real estate brokerage files for bankruptcy

"Neri was in Mexico and unavailable"

Too funny! How about, "Neri IS in Mexico and... he ain't coming back"? What a great business, milk it out for all it's worth (and then some) and the minute the lawsuits start oozing in just make for the border!

Thanks for making my Friday lunarpark!

>> Just wait and watch and see how we will make our coutry stronger kick your asses in a few decades!

IndianGuy,

I agree. I will be very happy if US becomes third world. Already so many indinas in Cupertino, Sunnyvale that it indeed feels like third world. US dollar would continue its crash. In 2002, one US dollar used to fetch 50INR, today it fetches 40INR....

US is a nation of flippers ... how far this SCAM can go on?

"I will be very happy if US becomes third world"

You... you mean we're not already?! That's funny b/c every time I take my wife shopping in Salem, OR we're the only people conversing in english, obeying traffic signals and disposing of trash properly.

Anybody rent the Billy Bob Thornton stinker "School for Scoundrels"? I did. Afterward I thought to myself, "that really WAS something of a revelation. Was I the last guy in America to attend this "school"?

My favorite line from the "class" was:

How many of you people have "self-help" books?

Entire class raises hand.

"Throw'em away. YOUR "SELF" SUCKS!"

>The “our rich are richer” was not even implied, and is actually counter to my >point. DUH.

I skipped a step. I should have said "we have more newly rich people than the Europeans, and ours are richer, too"

I think that the original argument was that there is "better opportunity for social mobility" in the US. In other words, it is easier to start from near scratch and become a gazillionaire in the US. Or just move up a few steps.

So let us try that one instead. The reason there is less social mobility in Europe is that there is fewer and less separated social strata to "move up" into. Also, people feel less of a burning desire to do so, because being middle class or less in Europe is not all that bad.

The problem is that most Americans never escape poverty and strike it "rich". The system does not work that way. The ones that strike it reach are highly educated and motivated immigrants, or rich kids like Bill Gates that leverage their parents social position into riches. But even Bill Gates is a Black Swan event. He is literally one in 300M. My point is that an argument (not yours) like "we create more newly minted millionaires per capita than any other country" does not mean that the US has "more opportunity" or is a "better society". It just does not mean that, unless your metric is exactly what I said:" "creates more newly minted milllionairs per capita than almost any other country".

I don't think that is a good metric of overall societal quality. And we may disagree on that.

justme and Headset,

In the 1980s, when the grey market car biz peaked and died, DOT required analog speedometers and odometers replaced and certified, steel crossbeams installed in doors for side impact standards, PCV/catalytic converter installation where not already present with some additional tweaking for California, installation of sealed-beam headlamps and addition of amber side markers front and red markers rear, amber turn signals in front and red rear, break-away rearview mirrors inside the windshield, three-point (and for a couple of years automatically-extending) seatbelt/shoulder harnesses.

Safety glass has been pretty much standard in Western Europe since forbid, but Americans introduced a windshield which fractured into small cubes of glass when it was shown that typical laminates were responsible for horrific injuries when people were thrown through the windshield and then fell back through the closing laminate. I don't know when or if Europe adopted the new standard, but would be surprised to learn they didn't.

Since then, headlamps and turn signals and automatic shoulder harness standards have been messed about.

Of course, all this was done for vehicles manufactured in Europe for export to America. For a long time, Porsche was a favorite grey market choice, since almost all the DOT requirements were already in place and you could buy a new one in Frankfurt for about 50-60% of its US price, put enough miles on it to qualify as a used, personal vehicle (3.4% import duty at the time as against 35% new car tariff).

You might be able to find a Lada with a pre-Cambrian windshield, but I somehow doubt it.

I'm posting too much, but here goes. Social mobility.

We measure it by how much money. They measure it by whether you work for someone (working class), own the business (bourgeois), carry a title (nobility) or are in a position to grant titles (royalty). That's it.

When I hear someone here say they thank their lucky stars they're not bourgeois, I think "Darlin', your lucky stars have seen to it!"

Um. That's 'here' as in 'here in Sarasota'.

So what's with all this comparing ourselves to the British or whatever!? Where Uhmurikans damn it!

FAB says: Back in 1994 I knew a S. Shore Realtor with over 100 listings with many of them under $100K…
I suppose this could get interesting -- especially if people head for the exits and all you are left with is a price/rental ratio that is seriously out of whack. So $100k at 5% appreciation (from 1994) is $180k. Not much listed on the MLS for that amount these days. At 8% appreciation the price is $270k, but still not too many listings in that range.
I found a for rent/for sale page on the net for a 1bed/1bath quarter share at the Marriott Grand Residence in Tahoe. They claimed Marriott is selling/sold these for $220k -- can you imagine losing $90k just by signing on the dotted line? Makes new car depreciation seem not all that bad.

You will find that the higher US infant mortality is related to substance abuse by the mothers, not lack of medical care. If Americans had European habits on exercise and food consumption, we would have similar levels of the ailments you mention. That has nothing to do with the quality and quantity of medical treatment.

No affordability issue here. As an American, you can chose to eat responsibly and exercise for about the same price as a European.

I don't know for sure, but I doubt that US rates of substance abuse among women of child-bearing age are greater in the US than in Europe. For one thing, at least anecdotally, it seems like a lot more Europeans smoke.

Diet and exercise are moderately important for pregnant women, but not critical. However, it is critical that pregnant women have access to decent prenatal counseling. Educated people take for granted that pregnant women need to avoid smoking and drinking, take prenatal vitamins, avoid mercury-contaminated seafood, etc., but there are a lot of people, both in the US and Europe who are clueless about these things. Decent prenatal counseling can make a big difference at the margin. And this kind of counseling can be provided at relatively low cost. But without some form of universal healthcare, a lot of people in the US just do without.

EBGuy,

There are a lot of "1/4 share" arrangements being run out at the OR coast. It's just been my experience that even at at 13 weeks the shares have a pretty high turn-over. No one seems to want (or be able) to hang on to them for more than 2 or 3 years. Good news for realtors I guess.

What seems such a shame is that a fellow (such as... myself) would be able to see all he wanted of OR w/ a spring/summer share and spend the balance of his life elsewhere (out of the rain perhaps?)

But no, the equity locusts have driven prices AND FEES through the roof at just about every turn. I will say though, as originally positioned they made sense, but the whole thing got perverted as time went on. Sad.

RE: overall European health vs. U.S.

I would agree that personal lifestyle/dietary choices ARE a big factor in why Europeans are generally healthier that Americans, and one that critically needs to be addressed. However, I was specifically addressing problems with our healthcare insurance system, not people's overall health.

Of course the two problems are not entirely mutually exclusive. If you could get more Americans to eat better and exercise more, and --critically-- to get get government and ADA public dietary guidelines in sync with current research on what constitutes a 'good diet', then the cost of medical insurance here might come down (because we would have a healthier population). I still believe we can and *should* provide some basic level of medical insurance coverage to all legal residents, but am certainly not against lifestyle-driven solutions to the cost issue.

It amazes me how many people, even in the medical establishment, are still operating under the (now) thoroughly discredited 1980s-era belief that a low-fat, high-carb diet represents the "best" possible diet. Or how much of our commercial and fast food supply is still loaded with high-fructose corn syrup and trans fats, which we now know are among the very worst things you can eat.

There is a lot of *very* bad dietary information still out there and strong institutional resistance to change, and I think our own medical establishment is at least partly to blame for it.

We need a topic on "How to talk to your coworkers who just closed on their new condo."

Seriously. My coworkers aren't dumb, but I know 3 of them have bought in the last month or are in the process of buying right now. I just keep my mouth shut around them and chat with my coworker who sold her Santa Clara house in early 2005 and just talked her husband into selling his parent's old house a little over a month ago in Vallejo. It was the best closing (for them, not the buyers) ever in that the day after it closed, two houses almost exactly the same size and a block away came on the market 30-40k under what they sold for. (They had a lucky break in that there was a guy who owned 3 rental houses on the block and wanted to stop being a landlord put all his houses up at wishing prices when they were trying to sell.)

Oh, and by the way, that whole Bear Stearns subprime mortgage CDO implosion thingy is causing the stock market to tank:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSwogFT3t7Uk&refer=home
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ahiW3FrIaT_k&refer=home
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a7QWNVKDNAI0&refer=home

@SFBB,

Once it's already a done deal, keeping your mouth shut and changing the subject sounds like a pretty good plan.

It amazes me how many people, even in the medical establishment, are still operating under the (now) thoroughly discredited 1980s-era belief that a low-fat, high-carb diet represents the “best” possible diet.

The best diet is the one that makes you feel best 2 hours after a meal.

Mercury in fish is not too much of a problem. Fiber and fruits really help. Meat is good but only in small quantity.

"There is a lot of *very* bad dietary information still out there and strong institutional resistance to change, and I think our own medical establishment is at least partly to blame for it."

Sadly, even with perfect dietary info, Americans are only going to eat what tastes good, and lots of it. So if anyone can invent a food with the look, feel, and taste of a cheeseburger or pizza, but have the nutrition and calories of a small serving of rice and beans, that person would be rich and only then would Americans eat better. The Euros stay thin because even though they eat great tasting full calorie food, they eat much less at a time.

DataQuick finally posted their May charts for the Bay Area. Fortress areas are holding steady if not increasing slightly. Mill Valley, though, is going crazy with sales and median both on the upswing.
Sonoma, Solano, and the hinterlands in Contra Costa are getting creamed. Bloggers, please read the tea leaves and offer analysis of your favorite Fortress towns.

PS 4-4-3-2 is where its at... none of this new age food pyramid stuff ;-)

The problem is that most Americans never escape poverty and strike it “rich”.

Um, that's exactly what the terrorists would want you to say.

Why do you hate our American Dream?

You're probably on a hitlist now.

“I will be very happy if US becomes third world”

You… you mean we’re not already?!

http://www.midwesthsr.org/promote_how_worldwide_kaza.htm

eburbed,

I know. I hate Your Freedom, too. At least that's what someone said :).

How about a new thread re the hedge fund blow up or is that old news?

I had a thought about the 'leverage' the hedges are doing and how that might compare to the endless margin in 1929 that caused that crash. Now you can only margin 50% (unless you have a crazy CDO fund then there is no limit?!?) wth has happened ?

@HelloKitty,

I was wondering the same thing when I read this:

"One Brookstreet broker, who declined to be identified because only Mains was authorized to speak for the firm, attributed Brookstreet's troubles to a bond division at the firm that had set up a special website for wealthy investors.

In some cases this would more than wipe out an investor's entire position overnight, putting the burden on Brookstreet to make up any amounts owed to the National Financial unit of Fidelity Investments, which held the accounts."

Maybe history doesn't exactly repeat itself but it sure rhymes.

Looking over the latest DQ numbers, I am nominating Antioch, 94509, as the worst performing zip in the Bay Area. Sales are off -51.0%. The median (near the lowest in the BA) slipped 16.1% to $375,000 and is mirrored by a 15.2% drop in price per sq.ft ($275). The sample size is nice (48 homes) so I am confident that this city is a true underperformer and a good representative of the subprime crunch. Hayward, San Leandro, and Richmond are all also showing signs of a weakening market.

First, have you ever been to Antioch? Endless highway between yellow grassy hills to get there, and when you get there it's nothing but strip malls and raw new development. I am not surprised that Antioch prices would decline early in the game. It's a place where you buy a house because you just have to have a house, and it's not *so* far from the Bay Area, and it's not *such* a bad commute. It is a compromise place, near as I can tell.

Second, I think that Europeans may eat less because they are allowed to enjoy food. They are allowed to be happy about butter. We Americans are not allowed to be openly happy about food. Food is a kind of sin in our culture. Another of the body's unseemly needs. Of course, it is totally natural to enjoy food--just observe any infant beginning to eat solid food. They love the flavors, the textures, the richness of the experience. Since we don't get to openly appreciate food, we spend less time cooking it (and the food you cook will often be of higher quality than the food you buy) and less time eating it (wolfing it down rather than appreciating the flavors and presentation)--but we eat more of it. Joy in bulk. I think there is an emotional component to satiety--the mind must feel satisfied, and if that means eating a third cheeseburger, so be it. But the mind might be just as pleased by elegantly presented sashimi and a small bowl of rice, fully and guiltlessly appreciated.

On the healthcare issue--maybe it matters that it is simply such an omnipresent concern for everyone. Change jobs to one you like better? Hmm, well, you might lose your insurance, and the new place has a 6 month waiting period, and we don't know whether they would cover the kids. Start your own business because you are passionate about what you do and you have a new idea and you'd like to see if it will fly? Well, could you get health insurance at all if you do that? Probably not with your dad's history of cancer. This constrains people. It worries them. It limits their choices.

I know a yoga teacher--a tremendously healthy woman with a long career in the field and books published--who cannot get insurance because of a no-longer-current diagnosis in her records. I know a father whose entire paycheck goes to cover his family's insurance--he doesn't make much, and his workplace covers him but not his family, and that's the way it goes. They live on the wife's paycheck. Just the stress of this is not good for people.

Europeans are healthier because they walk far more. Light amount of exercise actually suppresses appetite. The American daily activities are primarily repetitive actions of getting and out of the car.

The dietary focus of this country is completely wrong as well. Sugar is evil, not fat, not butter. We cook alternatively with olive oil and butter, never margarine, and we avoid sugar. My wife and I don't try that hard to watch our weight, we just eat plenty of vegetables and fruit, substitute meat with seafood. It is hard to get fat to get fat on a proper diet.

If we eat right, exercise a bit, we won't end up with millions of diabetes patients who are just in their 40s. I actually think that one should be responsible for his own health. HARM's situation is not his own fault, so a person like himself should be covered. But anyone who is clearly obese is just his own doing, and the society should NOT be responsible for their medical bills.

I will propose an universal medical coverage scheme that requires everyone to put in at least a bit of effort to keep themselves healthy. Anyone who is 2 standard deviation away from the mean weight should be automatically excluded. There is no such illness as being prone to getting fat, it is called laziness and stupidity, which are precisely the genes the we as human beings strive to get rid of.

Looks like the summer standstill is around the corner.

The inventory of the "desirable spots" starts to grow steadily with no sign of backing down.

>> We’re behind Kazakhstan!

No wonder that Borat made mockery of American culture ...

Basically this film shows that US essentially is a third world from cultural standpoint ....

2 standard deviations from the mean weight (for height, I am guessing?) would be a hazardous standard, simply because muscle is heavy stuff, and very fit people can be rather heavy--and we're not just talking professional athletes, either. Any person who is extremely fit can end up being shockingly heavy as compared with their height and appearance. Also, recent evidence suggests that genuinely overweight people who exercise regularly tend to be healthier than thin people who never exercise--and details like that would matter if we're talking about cutting people off from public, universal health insurance.

But I take your meaning. I also support universal healthcare, but I worry that Americans tend to try to make the most of what they are given--and not in a good way. There would need to be some structure in place to assure that medical care was being used responsibly. And there are ways to do that--I would think the focus would shift to education and prevention, which would hopefully lead to a cultural shift--everyone changing their ways at once.

And there's still the thorny problem of expensive miracle cures. At what point do you decide that an extremely ill or elderly person does not get to try the latest surgery or innovation that could perhaps allow them a little more life? Because that sort of thing gets expensive. One miracle surgery is vaccine for a thousand kids.

Casey has moved to Sydney!

Blogger learns how to monetise hate

However, he also needs emergency accommodation for a few days, so I generously...

HARM, we need to call a bored meeting of Harm-X Industries. LLC, GmbH.

On 7.7.7 bring seven of something.

BLOG PARTY - HOUSE WARMING.

I nominate David Spade to play CS when the movie comes out! Now there's a guy that looks perfectly comfortable with his lips wrapped around soy latte'!

I'm none too sure about the Aussie press. The "application" of "haterz" concerns me? I can't say for certain but is CS being portrayed as a victim here? It's as if the press down under knew all along that the collapse in U.S real estate (duh) was inevitable and CS was duped into his "venture". If ever I'm accused of fraud I know where I'm heading! "Industrial strength vitriol"? Uh... ever heard Surfer-X tear into MP/FR/CR!?

Perhaps that Marxist website isn't the most convincing proponent of my point of view, but I have read in both the Wall Street Journal and Economist that by most people's measure of class mobility, the US has fallen behind Europe. I was actually googling for "class mobility" and that one came up first.

I was actually googling for “class mobility” and that one came up first.

Have you stumbled upon Marxist spam?