patrick.net

All of you have it wrong. Don't you read the bible?

The mark of the beast will be in your hand so that you can swipe it to make cashless-society transactions, record your medical history, as well as send a GPS tracking signal to the authorities. Bonus points if the chip can read your blood-alcohol level (being tested currently on Lindsay Lohan) and your emotional state of being, then zap your central nervous system so that you collapse at the push of a button. It'll be like a human black-box for crime scenes combined with an instant tranquilizer dart.

Troy says

If, for example, the tagger was attached via remote-controlled robot that did not surveil while on private property, it’s difficult seeing the infringement of privacy. Or if it was attached when the car was on public property.

Having said that, requiring law enforcement to get a warrant for this doesn’t seem like that big an imposition.

Problem is there is no real “search” here, and that’s what warrants detail, what is to be searched and why. Hence law enforcement not bothering to take out a warrant I guess.

Well if this device can be put on my car with out my knowledge or consent, and it is only GPS data that is collected. Then I don't see how this could be indisputable evidence.
Because at that point, if the Perp doesn't go to the places that some Zealous prosecutor or detective is expecting a guy they have been investigating but can't catch dirty.

These cops could just put the device on their car, drive where they needed the perp to be, take the GPS device off his car, and present that as evidence that it was on the bad guys car.

Where is the public's protection from this type of dirty cop shit?

Come on guys, they started chipping away our rights with Bush Sr. and there hasn't been a president since that has showed a remote interest in restoring many of our basic rights and freedoms, in fact they signed the papers as more liberties have been taken away from us.

This isn't a party problem.

Nomo ... Troy ... for your benefit, to clarify the situation: as it stands, government agents are allowed to enter your property (driveway) and install a tracking device on your property (car) without your consent or knowledge and track your every movement when driving your vehicle.

Nomograph says

Instead of your usual whining and complaining, why not help get a law passed? This can be easily made illegal. And lets face it RayRay: If the judges had overturned the ruling, you would be posting about how Obama’s liberal activist judges are freeing convicted drug dealers.

LOL! When it comes to whining, you're a charter member in Patrick's Hall of Fame. Please tell me how passing a law to prevent this abuse of our rights would be "easily made legal." Details would be appreciated. Apparently, you are in denial as to the power of the courts and their ability to chip away at our rights based on their political activism. Stay comfortable in your conviction that this is all about party politics. At least I'm consistent. I criticized the creation and passage of the Patriot Act under Bush and its subsequent extension under your Dear Leader. Where were you?

I don't see anything posted from you criticizing Obama for his extention on this thread:

http://patrick.net/?p=28766

IF he hadn't allowed it to be extended, some of your friends (Ray) would have labeled Obama weak on terrorism.

He has picked his battles, and taking on the patriot act was not one of them. But sure, it would be nice to see it undone. Then again, it would be nice if we didn't have to worry about terrorism.

marcus ... the point was very well illustrated by thunder' on this thread which I totally agree with. Our rights are being eroded by both parties. As far as Obama extending the Patriot Act, are you implying he did so because he didn't want the political fallout for doing the right thing? That sounds like the actions of what I believe he is; just another political hack and not the "agent of change" he fraudulently portrayed himself to be. But then again, what more would you expect from a politician that is deeply entrenched with the Chicago political machine?

Silence Ray Ray, you're making to much sense.

RayAmerica says

As far as Obama extending the Patriot Act, are you implying he did so because he didn’t want the political fallout for doing the right thing?

I really don't know all of the reasons. It may partly have been based on information that he has access to and we don't. But yes, part of it may have been politics. If a leader has a list of 10 things that he strongly believes are the right thing, he has to choose which battles he is going to fight.

Some call it using "political capital." You can say it makes him just another a political hack.

What does "just another" political hack mean ?

Is that someone who is very competent in politics, but uses that to fight for policy you disagree with ?

Do you think that he wants power for it's own sake, just so that he can admire himself, and his awesome power ?

Or does he actually wish to be a great leader who has many positive impacts on America ?

By the way, I am not so happy about certain compromises Obama has made. And it's hard to be optimistic about a President if he or she isn't supported enough, by congress or by voters. Many think that a change in composition of congress can somehow be a good thing for Obama. I don't know. But clearly he was aware that certain parts of his legislative agenda needed to be addressed before that happened.

I still am somewhat optimistic, that is, given all of the circumstances.

RayAmerica says

are you implying he did so because he didn’t want the political fallout for doing the right thing? That sounds like the actions of what I believe he is; just another political hack and not the “agent of change” he fraudulently portrayed himself to be

Keeping the PATRIOT Act is basic game theory.

Assuming PATRIOT did not aid in any major breach of civil rights, you've got two choices and two outcomes, resulting in 4 permutations with different costs.

Keep PATRIOT + No major terrorist event = minor cost of the tinfoil brigade complaining about lost liberties they can't identify

Keep PATRIOT + Major terrorist event = Ass is covered

Lose PATROT + Major terrorist event = Ass is grass

Lose PATRIOT + No major terrorist event = Everyone is happy.

So the Keep PATRIOT option has the possible results of { minor cost | Ass is covered }
The Lost PATRIOT option has the possible results of { Ass is grass | Everyone is happy }

Much of the "Everyone is happy" crowd isn't going to vote for Obama anyway so appeasing them isn't politically rewarding.

I hope you enjoyed this education on how the Real World works. It's also called triangulating.

I agree with Troy with a couple exceptions.

I don't see those who worry about the slippery slope of lost privacy and government surveillance as "tinfoil brigade."

I think that probably at least half of the "everyone is happy" crowd did vote for Obama.

Also, it's not just about outcomes and political cost/reward. There is also the very real possibility that they get quality terrorist related intelligence from the Patriot act.

Question for Troy:

When the Patriot Act was originally initiated, were you in favor of its passage?

Other than the stupid name, I didn't see any problems with it, no.

Having lived in Japan in the 90s I had already assumed my international phone calls were captured by intelligence agencies.

While I'd personally prefer total privacy in communications, I also acknowledge that electronic eavesdropping is a necessary police investigatory tool and that the law needed to be modernized with the arrival of the Internet age.

I find it pretty amazing that there are so many people that have ZERO problem with a government agent, without your knowledge or consent, plants a tracking device on your car while it sits on your private property. Our liberties are being eroded incrementally and will continue to do so if we do not strongly protest these blatantly unconstitutional activities.

RayAmerica says

I find it pretty amazing that there are so many people that have ZERO problem with a government agent, without your knowledge or consent, plants a tracking device on your car while it sits on your private property. Our liberties are being eroded incrementally and will continue to do so if we do not strongly protest these blatantly unconstitutional activities.

It applies to the area covered by that court and will be taken to the supreme court. I guess that it doesn't bother me much, because I don't do anything that would even remotely interest the gub'mint enough to care about me. there are soooooooooooooooo many limited laws out there.

RayAmerica says

At least I’m consistent. I criticized

There's a difference between consistency and single-issue obsession.

Nomograph says

That is why I will never vote for Conservative or Republican candidates again.

Uh, are all "Conservative or Republican candidates" against "civil rights, the U.S Constitution, and personal responsibility?"

Troy says

Other than the stupid name, I didn’t see any problems with it, no.

True, it should have had a different title. And i agree with your analysis.

@CBO,
they may start with the hand, but if you read close you will see that the forehead is also mentioned. My guess is they do this because bad guys will simply cut off the hands of people that have credits, and use their credits by using their hands, absent their bodies. I'm not suggesting that the same bad guys wont do the same thing for the head-mounted credit chip access ... but, maybe, the idea is there is no way a druggie can swap their head for their habit, while they could swap their hand for their habit.

Extortion and ransoms paid by turning over rich relatives hands could happen - like if someone kidnapped Gate's grandson and demanded Gate's hand with the credit chip in exchange for the tot. They just might be able to pull it off (no pun). But, Gates would not be willing nor likely to have his head removed so his credits can be used by someone else.

Also, a person can be born without a hand. Or lose their hand in an accident.

Both spots are a very likely way things will be done. And the scar from having it placed will be really easy to see ... like the old vaccination things on the shoulder.

Just tossing out thoughts.

...and we'd all be typing with our noses...

I will not be using my nose

Bap33 says

I will not be using my nose

Smelled that one coming, I did. :)

You people crack me up. Yea yea, George Orwell 1984. If you haven't noticed, the gov really could care less what you think because you don't elect them. Big money does. They aren't going to bug average citizens to find out who opposes them because they all know that most of us disapprove of most of them. All the parties get together and laugh about nothings like you and your "movements" and your blogs. The only thing they seriously debate is how they can possibly shanghi the popular fervor to use in their next dog and pony show to get elected. Now if they want to gps vehicles of suspected terrorists I'm 100% for it- we are at war. In addition, we should be tracking movements of domestic terrorists that kill 15000 people a year in the united states. They are more commonly known as street gangs. We need to declare total war on these savages. 15000 a year. Sort of makes foreign terrorists look a bit impotent by comparison.

deanrite says

Now if they want to gps vehicles of suspected terrorists I’m 100% for it- we are at war. In addition, we should be tracking movements of domestic terrorists that kill 15000 people a year in the united states. They are more commonly known as street gangs. We need to declare total war on these savages. 15000 a year. Sort of makes foreign terrorists look a bit impotent by comparison.

AMEN ... great post.

deanrite says

They are more commonly known as street gangs. We need to declare total war on these savages. 15000 a year. Sort of makes foreign terrorists look a bit impotent by comparison.

Those gangs are results of good kids being oppressed by the republicans. They need to express them selves, and you are a racist and a hater, if you don't like it when they hold convenient stores and shoot, a hard working Asian couple in the head execution style.
They deserve to be Glorified in music, and it should be required listening for White American youths between the age of 12 to 17.

Love overly educated Liberals everywhere.

I believe there should be a Constitutional amendment protecting the right to wear yo' pants down to da top of yo' knee caps.

The more time they spend worrying about baggies, the less time they have setting up speed traps to catch "criminals" breaking the law.

Tenouncetrout says

they deserve to be Glorified in music, and it should be required listening for White American youths between the age of 12 to 17.

Tot, are you Abe too ?

The music business that glorifies gang lingo and styles is a big corporate phenomenon. It's closer to Fox news or other megamedia companies than it is to liberals. Our criminal justice system is overloaded with what comes out of street gangs.

If you want to diminish gangs there are two things we need. One is decent legal money making opportunities, other than $7/hr at taco bell. This is not just for the kids in the gangs but for their parents too. The other thing that would help kill gangs is legalizing marijuana.

Most gang activity, is just kids joining up for protection because they live in dangerous neighborhood, and to some extent selling drugs. This is bad, but it's a far cry from executing convenience store owners. That might be indirectly related to gangs, because the junkie who does it, got hooked buying from kids in gangs.

Obviously most gang murders are of rival gang members. Quite an amazing stretch to blame liberals for gang violence. And by the way, gang violence (at least the murders) are almost always done with guns. Liberals are the ones always trying to make handguns less easily available.

marcus says

And by the way, gang violence (at least the murders) are almost always done with guns. Liberals are the ones always trying to make handguns less easily available.

lets complete that last sentence ....... "less easily accessable" to those willing to follow laws and rules, but having no effect on illegal weapon activity.

marcus says

Tenouncetrout says

they deserve to be Glorified in music, and it should be required listening for White American youths between the age of 12 to 17.

Tot, are you Abe too ?
The music business that glorifies gang lingo and styles is a big corporate phenomenon. It’s closer to Fox news or other megamedia companies than it is to liberals. Our criminal justice system is overloaded with what comes out of street gangs.
If you want to diminish gangs there are two things we need. One is decent legal money making opportunities, other than $7/hr at taco bell. This is not just for the kids in the gangs but for their parents too. The other thing that would help kill gangs is legalizing marijuana.
Most gang activity, is just kids joining up for protection because they live in dangerous neighborhood, and to some extent selling drugs. This is bad, but it’s a far cry from executing convenience store owners. That might be indirectly related to gangs, because the junkie who does it, got hooked buying from kids in gangs.
Obviously most gang murders are of rival gang members. Quite an amazing stretch to blame liberals for gang violence. And by the way, gang violence (at least the murders) are almost always done with guns. Liberals are the ones always trying to make handguns less easily available.

Q.E.D.

"The music business that glorifies gang lingo and styles is a big corporate phenomenon."
You mean those business guys that shoot at each other on Vegas strips after sporting events, and sneak into late night studios, to pump two the head?

Yeah that's Stuart Varney hard at work, puhleze!

"If you want to diminish gangs there are two things we need. One is decent legal money making opportunities, other than $7/hr at taco bell."

That's why it's even more important for School officials to keep the Jack Asses that just want to make their School a prison yard movie set, out. If the Phys Ed Coach can't put them in line, and their parents wont or can't discipline them with out it turning into Domestic violence. Then throw the bums out, and focus on the ones left.

"Obviously most gang murders are of rival gang members. Quite an amazing stretch to blame liberals for gang violence. "

No it's not, because in the late 90's and early 2000's nobody could say anything about addressing most of the issues with out the race card being pulled.

And every thing I said applies to all kids of all races in the American school system.

The tide is turning though, it's like those kids younger siblings, are far smarter than their older siblings they watched growing up just five years ago or so. I'm seeing kids now more intuitive and eager to sponge up every thing that is taught to them. Especially now that they are 15 or so and see their 19 to 20 something older siblings jobless and slumming from couch to couch. 30% of the Girls were knocked up by 18, and 40% of dudes have been arrested.
These kids now, are thinking more about the future than most 30 year olds are, and they aren't seeing a life of criminal enterprise. Because they aren't enamored by the Rap Music Piper, with the Bling and stuff nobody asked how he got.

Nothing we need to do, natural selection is correcting its self.

Tenouncetrout says

You mean those business guys that shoot at each other on Vegas strips after sporting events, and sneak into late night studios, to pump two the head?

No, I mean the backers and the labels behind music that often requires minimal musicans and not all that much talent (not saying that all hip hop artist are without talent). Big profit with minimal investment. Talking companies like Atlantic Records, a subsidiary of Warner music, Sony Music Entertainment, and EMI.

Tenouncetrout says

No it’s not, because in the late 90’s and early 2000’s nobody could say anything about addressing most of the issues with out the race card being pulled.

Anything else you want to make up ? That is such BS. I have seen the posts back and forth about your supposed weed abuse. I think there is a much simpler explanation.

marcus says

Tenouncetrout says
No it’s not, because in the late 90’s and early 2000’s nobody could say anything about addressing most of the issues with out the race card being pulled.

Anything else you want to make up ? That is such BS. I have seen the posts back and forth about your supposed weed abuse. I think there is a much simpler explanation.

ToT is 100% correct. Any crackdown on gangs was called racism. Alot like the crackdown on illegal invaders is being called racisim .. same leftists pulling the same poop, in my opinion.

Bap33 says

illegal invaders

If I have the opinion that there is a race component to what's going on in Arizona, that's just my opinion. I should be entitled to it. Anchor babies ? How often does that happen ? And how bad is it. They become American, pay taxes, and have children who pay taxes. Oh no !!

But gangs ? I recall big increases in urban police forces under Clinton. There was a police Chief Bratton who came to LA in 2002, and was in New York and I think Boston before that. I never heard any crys of racism in his campaigns against gangs. This is nothing more than an incredibly weak attempt to pin the gang phenomenon on liberals. The drug trade, and basically all cultural problems and decay in values are the fault of liberals. If you are for family values and God, then you should vote republican.

Speaking of which here is a great site about Glenn Becks lies (which you won't want to check out):

http://glennbeckreport.com/glenn-beck-lies/

marcus says

The drug trade, and basically all cultural problems and decay in values are the fault of liberals. If you are for family values and God, then you should vote republican.

best post ever

Marcus .... when did you become a republican?

Let's face it, beliefs make us who we are, and they don't have that much to do with rational logical thought. I even know some people of nearly average intelligence who have almost those exact beliefs (that Bap quoted from me above).

How can it be that there is no clear measure for morals nor right/wrong, but there is a clear measure for logic and intellect? Could it not be said that there is no absolute logic, no absolute correct answer, if there is no absolute base for all things? Just who or what decides "average intelligence"? Could we use them/it to figure out what's absolute right/wrong? In my itty bitty mind it would seem that if someone belives there is a known and agreed upon absolute guage for "rational thought", then that same person should believe in a known and absolute guage for acceptable moral behavior, right/wrong, stuff like that.

Bap33 says

In my itty bitty mind it would seem that if someone belives there is a known and agreed upon absolute guage for “rational thought”, then that same person should believe in a known and absolute guage for acceptable moral behavior

I wasn't pitting intelligence or logic against morals. Just noting there are plenty of fools who feel good about being republican (backing their corporate overlords) because they have bought into the idea that "moral decay" is the fault of democrats or liberals, and that being republican is somehow the spiritually right choice.

And yet most of these people never even consider the biggest moral questions, such as was our adventure in Iraq morally right? Forgetting the answer, how many of these morally superior judgmental types are even willing to look at that question? Why is it that this same group can't acknowledge the monumental sins of their forefathers such as the genocide of native americans?

Not to look down on the intelligence of all republicans, but yes the ones who use such simple and intellectually dishonest reasoning.

Religion often does little more than help people to feel self righteous about their morals. Morality is in the eye of the beholder. Issues like gay marriage and a womans choice are good examples. Sure a simple law direct from God would make things easy. But it turns out things aren't so simple.

Bap33 says

How can it be that there is no clear measure for morals nor right/wrong, but there is a clear measure for logic and intellect?

So you tell me then, and were talking BIG IMPORTANT actions. Does your religion tell you whether what we did to native americans was right or wrong ? HOw about the people we killed in Iraq? Is there some cost benefit analysis that needs to be done, or is the answer clear?

Bap33 says

known and absolute guage for acceptable moral behavior

What behaviors would you be considering?

I think there is agreement about what's right and wrong, and for the most part what we want to teach children. Religion is useful for that education.

But for adults: Promiscuous sex? Drinking? Drug use? Gambling? These are the areas that might be part of what is described as our culture's moral decay. Nearly everyone agrees moderation or minimizing these is a good thing. But absolute rules? Rules that one person can follow and than judge others who don't follow them as well? Typically, a person might have gone through a stage when they were promiscuous, if they were lucky, and yet want to impose rules for their children. That's normal.

But judging kids that are out there doing things you might have done when you were a kid ? And then blaming liberals?

you happened to suggest there was a connection between intellect and right and wrong sides of things, not me. So, I just asked from whence you found/based the guage for intellect and if that same guage would work to settle the other question that we discussed about morals and boundries and such. Nothing more.

My "religion", whatever that is, doesn't tell me anything -- that I am aware of, anyways. Does yours?