patrick.net

Peter P,

Pull out your physical map of the western US. Boise city is at the foot of the Rockies: downtown elevation is 2700' but a few miles north Bogus Basin ski resort is at around 7500' - and currently buried in about 8' of snow. Everything to the north of Boise city is a riot of forested mountains and rivers, all the way into Canada. Everything south of Boise city is desert and canyonlands all the way into Mexico. A major tributary of the Snake river, the Boise river, comes down from the Rockies and goes through downtown Boise city. Boise State U. fronts the river for a mile or so and students stand on campus and fish for trout. There's also a small rapids adjacent to the campus so the PE department at BSU gives kayak lessons ON CAMPUS. It may be the only college in the US that can do so.

PeterPee - Yeah Sedona’s near but I’ve never been there, allergic to hippies and woo-woo types, I guess.

I am allergic to hippies myself, but I am a woo-woo type. It is not as bad as you think. (I cannot stand Berkeley though.)

Dennis, if we want to visit Coeur D'Alene, Boise, Flathead County (Montana) in a week, can we do that by Amtrak?

What the heck is a "woo-woo" type? A tree-hugger?

"in about 8' of snow"

Yikes!

What the heck is a “woo-woo” type? A tree-hugger?

I guess it has more to do with stars than trees.

Peter P,

Sadly Amtrak pulled out of Boise city service about 10 years ago. They still list a Boise connection at their web-site, but this is fraud: they put you on a BUS from Spokane.

Flathead County MT is between Missoula and Glacier Nat. Park, right?

When you say "in a week", do you mean "in a week's time" or "NEXT week"? This time of year most of those areas are hard to get between due to winter conditions. See for example http://511.idaho.gov/

DQ numbers are out for SoCal. More pain - bring it on!

http://dqnews.com/RRSCA0108.shtm

Every single SoCal county had double-digit median price declines YoY. Marshall Prentice has finally had to break out of the boilerplate comments:

"It looks like anybody who can, is waiting this thing out. Which of course means that the activity we are seeing right now is largely stressed and atypical. Today's numbers form a lousy basis for trending and forecasting. We're in the midst of turbulence and we won't know what really has been going on until things have settled down and we can look back," said Marshall Prentice, DataQuick president.

Talking about Amtrak, did you read this book:

ZEPHYR
Tracking a Dream Across America
By Henry Kisor.
Illustrated. 338 pp. New York:
Times Books/Random House. $24.

http://www.henrykisor.com/zephyrreview.htm

Flathead County MT is between Missoula and Glacier Nat. Park, right?

Yes. Whitefish, Kalispell, Columbia Falls, west entrance to the national park.

When you say “in a week”, do you mean “in a week’s time” or “NEXT week”?

In a week's time in May or June. :)

So a "woo-woo" is one of those crystal-spheres, pyramid-power guys?

DinOR: see http://www.bogusbasin.org/snow-report.aspx Looks like the recent warming trend has melted it down to only around 4' now. Lots of snow is good for a ski resort.

So a “woo-woo” is one of those crystal-spheres, pyramid-power guys?

There are many woo-woo sub-types. I am just someone who believes that our mind is more powerful than "science" will give credit for.

skibum,

I don't know why Marshall is obsessing about the credit crunch and access to Jumbo loans? A few more quarters like this and $417k will be more... than adequate!

Peter P,

Probably your best bet is a "triangle" trip flying into Boise and flying back from Spokane. Both are major airports with direct flights to SFO/SJC/OAK. Look around Boise then drive through the Sawtooth NRA and stay in Sun Valley/Ketchum. Then drive on back up Hwy. 75 to Hwy. 93 and up near the Continental Divide to Missoula. Then loop Glacier Nat. Park. Then get to Hwy. 200 through the Flathead reservation and come back into Idaho north of Pend Orelle. Drive down Hwy. 95 to Coeur d'Alene. Fly home from Spokane. You can do this in a week with two weekends, but you can't dawdle on your way.

Get the AAA map "Idaho/Montana"

DennisN,

We've sure had our share down here! I don't know for sure but we usually don't hit 110" (total) until Feb/Mar? I think 150" for the year is about standard on Mt. Hood.

PeterP - nothing personal, I just never got that excited about going to Sedona. It seemed like everytime a Los Angeles yuppie asshole type came by my place at the swapmeet, it was someone from Sedona. People from outside AZ think Sedona is the bees' knees, around here we're like, Ho, Hum.

If found it's really fun to try to explain to crystal-power types the physical/electronic characteristics in crystals and how they're used in circuits, that always draws the most dumbfounded blank stare..... not because they're getting any of it, lol.

the ones who made the most money in the American Gold Rush were the ones who sold the shovels.

Of course.

Dennis, thanks for the tip!

Boise city got its start raising crops and selling supplies to the miners up in the mountains. Those miners never got rich but it laid the foundation for Boise city's future.

On the whole, the tech industry has not made that many millionaires.

Is there an industry that has?

The Original Bankster,

So true, so true. Allow me to amplify, if you will?

On the East Coast it's all about "old money" and tracing your families wealth to the "whaling fleet".

In the mid-west, it's about applying yourself as best you can, being loyal and thinking long-term.

On the West Coast, you nailed it.

I always implore people to take the best each school of thought has to offer. Be loyal (but not to the point of stupidity) Conduct yourself w/ some dignity (but not so much it turns people off) and be resourceful and inventive (but remember, the world already has enough "idea junkies")

Please feel free to add/debunk.

Yes well the ones who DO get rich in the gold rush are HIGHLY visible so they motivate others to work hard which enriches society, generates taxes.

And it makes bay area an international magnet for smart people who work hard. Thats a positive. Despite crushing property prices, high taxes and traffic - people STILL come to bay area to launch start ups. I wonder how 'awful' it would have to be to chase this sector away? probably lots of room to get worse. 2 to a bedroom doesnt a even matter when you work 16 hour days....and thats the college dorm environment....

In the mid-west, it’s about applying yourself as best you can, being loyal and thinking long-term.

Trust funds in the East, dead dreams in the West, salt of the Earth in the middle. No bias here, eh DinOr? (Drew IN ORegon)?

I joined a private club a while ago. A member of the welcome committee is a smart woman RE developer, really into startups and liked my credentials and ideas. (For me, starting a company is more like an adventure, for fun, and to learn something, and to improve oneself; money is tertiary.) So at our first luncheon, she introduced me to an ex microsoftie, a chubby guy in an ill-fitting, bland sport coat. I forgot his name. He did a small company that packages promotional materials on CDROMS for small companies.

Needless to say, I wasn't impressed. I understand there's a lot involved in running a company and making it work. But, what for? That? Precious years of one's life wasted on that? You've got to be kidding.

I guess the fact I was raised in an environment where there was little mention of money making, career, hard working, earning a living, etc., all those traits related to the striving middle class, made me quite cynical and occasionally distancing.

To each's own.

I'd agree with that. Trust funds in the East, dead dreams in the West, and salt of the earth in the middle.

And there's more high tech and high tech start ups in Ohio than there are in the bay area.

It's not the 1960s any more, it's just not.

the ones who made the most money in the American Gold Rush were the ones who sold the shovels.

That makes for nice folk wisdom, but if you read some of the economic history of the westward expansion you'll be saddened to learn that nearly all the "wealth created" came from ... you guessed, it: real estate. Most of the rest came from transport and agriculture. Very little ever came of pickaxe sales.

VC firms use both other people's money _and_ their own money. I've yet to meet a VC, from associate up to partner, who doesn't have significant skin in their funds. Most of their income to speak of comes from carried interest, which is directly related to returns generated. No need to cry for those "other people" who put up the money, either. Limited partners are generally significantly wealthy individuals and private funds representing significantly wealthy individuals.

That makes for nice folk wisdom, but if you read some of the economic history of the westward expansion you’ll be saddened to learn that nearly all the “wealth created” came from … you guessed, it: real estate.

Plan:

1. Sell shovels to hopeful "gold-rushers" who have bought real estates
2. Buy real estates from foreclosed "gold-rushers" who are now disappointed
3. Get rich
4. Go to (1)

"No bias here"

Well, maybe just a teence. :)

Randy and I have talked about this before and that's why I left it open. When you look though at the way Sam Zell or the Walton family conducts themselves or the Wrigley family and contrast that w/ The Donald?

Last I heard... "most" mid-westerners shun self-promotion. They tend to leave that for "other" folks. WB is well known but I don't know if it's b/c of anything he's consciously done?

Drew? Can't say I know him but that's what what the "OR" stands for!

RE: the gold rush mentality in Silly Valley, the legions of engineers and "entrepreneurs" who come here to become start up fodder have exactly the same mentality as aspiring movie stars or pro athletes (football, basketball and baseball, specifically). They are motivated by a small, select, but highly visible group of mega-stars who are hugely successful, but in the end only a miniscule fraction can reach the top of their respective pyramids. In return for the chance at the top, they give up almost everything. It's yet another great Ponzi scheme.

Good to see the trolls still love me.

Ohio is a terrible place for tech companies. There are many better examples. Michigan for example. Ohio is pretty much terrible for most everything right now, complete with plenty of broken dreams even without the benefit of a tech startup culture.

Original Bankster,

"Trustafarian" made it out West a long time ago. They seem to like to populate ski towns as "ski bums", dressing like dirtbags. At least in the 90's, these dudes usually had dreaded hair, hence the terminology.

Ohio is pretty much terrible for most everything right now, complete with plenty of broken dreams even without the benefit of a tech startup culture.

Does the tech startup culture include sushi? :)

Horatio Alger was the original Chuck Ponzi, perhaps. But then again, the American Ponzi has been going on for a quarter millennium now. At what point does it cease to be a pyramid and start to be an economy?

Ohio is pretty much terrible for most everything right now, complete with plenty of broken dreams even without the benefit of a tech startup culture.

Sounds like not much has changed since the Pretenders' song came out...

>> At what point does it cease to be a pyramid and start to be an economy?

When it starts doing something useful -- so far the schme has been to earn money without doing an honest day of work. For example bankers charge interest on money which they do not own.

>> nah, most people think you’re a pompous ass.

I agree -- Silly Con Valley s full of such people ....

so far the schme has been to earn money without doing an honest day of work. For example bankers charge interest on money which they do not own.

What is wrong with that?

Well, taking money you didn't earn by work used to be considered a bad thing. I think it was called usury or just plain crime.

I could walk into the door of a hi-tech place in Ohio and be fairly considered for a job. There are quite a few hi-tech places out there too. The BA is extremely grim for hi-tech unless you're a Chindian.

Not saying the BA isn't good for some other things, street musicians can make out well there, come up with some gimmick to sell at flea markets and you'll do well out there, stuff that requires simply a lot of people around who would respond to a little cute knick knack, getting their picture drawn or even their face painted, stuff like that. You gotta be GOOD and preferably keeping every dollar out of the hands of The Man as possible, but the BA is a good place for stuff like that.