patrick.net

Hey, looks like he is willing to just give his money away instead.

Isn’t that what he is doing now?

Yes. But to the owner it's counterintuitive. It goes against their instincts. It goes against their "common sense'. Although it annoys me to no end, I can understand the position of all these sticky owners.

They are simply un/undereducated in economics and finance. In order to operate in modern capitalistic society our children require a basic minimum of financial and economic literacy. But then again, we seem to be having enough trouble teaching them to read, write and add.

Financial & economic illiteracy will be the downfall of free market capitalism. It matters not how wrong the masses are, and how responsible they are for their own fates. It matters only that there are lots of them; more and more every day.

skibum,

Agreed. Had it not been for the threat of lawsuits (builders would have started their "improved pricing" model the following day) In FL and AZ we've seen stories of disgruntled recent buyers.

I guess the question for the builders becomes "At what point is the "possibility" of class-action less of a threat than "certain" insolvency if we can't move inventory and generate immediate cash flow to service our debts"?

This must be where the gloves come off, and I think we're there.

>> The world is full of losers (dreamers) and suckers (risk takers) and they need the bay area, the sunshine, the waves, the million-dollar bungalows to fight for, and the average-looking, aging chicks to compete for. Bangalore just doesn’t cut it.

I have been both a loser and sucker. I have worked for two failed startup. In the first startup I wasted three years of my life. In the second I exited within five months. Unless you are very close to CEO, ultimately you will be layed off unless startup is making big.

This means people who work for startups are basically unemployed -- they just do not know this fact.

Startup destroys your life by consuming the basic ingedients:

1. SPACE: Cramp working condition for 70 hours a week

2. TIME: You work six days a week. Remaining one day you do shopping.

3. SOUL: Startup destroys your connections. You do not smell roses, your wife divorces you, you do not know how your kids are growing up.

After all this many people get layed off -- still startups are able to hire. That means there is steady supply of LOSERS and SUCKERS just like me.

Back in the 80's, there were a few lawsuits filed by people, or groups of people, who bought at the peak and then tried to sue the builder for the price difference when the builder slashed prices to move inventory. The outcome was that the judge said that no one had their arm twisted to sign the note, therefore, they were told to stop whining and pay their bills.

Richmond,

Right, unless they can build the case that tennis courts, pools and other amenities promised were not delivered it will be up hill for them.

I think the other factor is that builders are possibly decimating their creditor's inventory. This is where the builders and lenders will find themselves at odds. During the Boom they were in perfect alignment. Now with each new foundation poured, another comp crusher!

Even if they can buy lots for 20k and deliver @ $95 a sq. ft. what good is it if their lenders simply cut them off?

DinOR,
Good points. The issues you mention weren't the case back then.
This time around it's a totally different animal.

The world is full of losers (dreamers) and suckers (risk takers)

Luckily there are many who do dream and take risks, otherwise you wouldn't be bitching about how stupid it is to dream and take risks on a blog right now.

--A loser sucker.

Oh wait, I didn't see this anti-startup rant was originally started by GC, infamous blog troll.

I'll choose not to take entrepreneurial career advice from a Microserf worker bee with some confusion about his cultural heritage and a propensity to write about children in an inappropriate sexual context on real estate blogs.

You have to wonder though, how many of those financial relationships are already strained, if not outright blown up?

As the builders slide down the food chain and begin working with lesser tier lenders... well why would they give a rip?

"Sure, we used to secure our project financing through CitiGroup but they just became... inflexible, unwilling to adjust to the new realities of the market place. Besides, they have problems of their own".

Btw the latest round of financing for Merrill and Citi are just... embarrassing! I don't even work there and I'm embarrassed. Singapore, Kuwait and Korea. Sounds like they both made the same rounds. 9% pfd. to convert to common in 2 years? "Special" class of stock w/ no voting rights or control? Whahappens in 2 years? Is this whole thing supposed to have blown over by then?

I live in deep Republican flyover country now (hint: it's home to the "world's oldest rodeo") and so far it's pretty cool.

As for being a start-up or a dreamer, it would be much, much easier for me to do a start up tech company out here. No problem having the space to have a proper antenna test range. No problem with workshop space.

I have to get this BK thing taken care of then decide if I might want to start making useful tech stuff and see how that goes. No way I'd be able to do that in the BA.

ex-sunnyvale-renter, Prescott is quite nice right? It is so close to Sedona, my favorite place in the world! :)

Oh wait, I didn’t see this anti-startup rant was originally started by GC, infamous blog troll.

Well, since there are so many start-up losers and suckers, perhaps we can do a start-up on start-up services?

Peter P,
Yeah, I'd like to start up my own venture capital firm using someone else's money.

Yeah, I’d like to start up my own venture capital firm using someone else’s money.

I thought most VC firms use OPM (other people's money).

BTW, does Boise have streams and cascades? Or are they mostly near Cascade?

Peter P:

I can't afford a home in Sedona so I bought a pair of these instead:
http://www.ariat.com/products_detail.aspx?cid=2&scid=20&pid=41 They really fit my feet well.

Nice boots!

Sedona is too pricey, but it is considered to be one of the prettiest places in the world.

SF is quite pretty too, but only if you get the bridge-to-bridge view. Now that is really going to cost the moon.

PeterPee - Yeah Sedona's near but I've never been there, allergic to hippies and woo-woo types, I guess. I do need to visit it though just to see it. Jerome's nearby, Flag's not all that far away, etc.

$1000 or more a month for a tiny closet of a place in the BA as opposed to, well, free rent just a few chores here right now. It's a huge difference! And the people all reflect so much light and are so nice!!!!!

Peter P,

Pull out your physical map of the western US. Boise city is at the foot of the Rockies: downtown elevation is 2700' but a few miles north Bogus Basin ski resort is at around 7500' - and currently buried in about 8' of snow. Everything to the north of Boise city is a riot of forested mountains and rivers, all the way into Canada. Everything south of Boise city is desert and canyonlands all the way into Mexico. A major tributary of the Snake river, the Boise river, comes down from the Rockies and goes through downtown Boise city. Boise State U. fronts the river for a mile or so and students stand on campus and fish for trout. There's also a small rapids adjacent to the campus so the PE department at BSU gives kayak lessons ON CAMPUS. It may be the only college in the US that can do so.

PeterPee - Yeah Sedona’s near but I’ve never been there, allergic to hippies and woo-woo types, I guess.

I am allergic to hippies myself, but I am a woo-woo type. It is not as bad as you think. (I cannot stand Berkeley though.)

Dennis, if we want to visit Coeur D'Alene, Boise, Flathead County (Montana) in a week, can we do that by Amtrak?

What the heck is a "woo-woo" type? A tree-hugger?

"in about 8' of snow"

Yikes!

What the heck is a “woo-woo” type? A tree-hugger?

I guess it has more to do with stars than trees.

Peter P,

Sadly Amtrak pulled out of Boise city service about 10 years ago. They still list a Boise connection at their web-site, but this is fraud: they put you on a BUS from Spokane.

Flathead County MT is between Missoula and Glacier Nat. Park, right?

When you say "in a week", do you mean "in a week's time" or "NEXT week"? This time of year most of those areas are hard to get between due to winter conditions. See for example http://511.idaho.gov/

DQ numbers are out for SoCal. More pain - bring it on!

http://dqnews.com/RRSCA0108.shtm

Every single SoCal county had double-digit median price declines YoY. Marshall Prentice has finally had to break out of the boilerplate comments:

"It looks like anybody who can, is waiting this thing out. Which of course means that the activity we are seeing right now is largely stressed and atypical. Today's numbers form a lousy basis for trending and forecasting. We're in the midst of turbulence and we won't know what really has been going on until things have settled down and we can look back," said Marshall Prentice, DataQuick president.

Talking about Amtrak, did you read this book:

ZEPHYR
Tracking a Dream Across America
By Henry Kisor.
Illustrated. 338 pp. New York:
Times Books/Random House. $24.

http://www.henrykisor.com/zephyrreview.htm

Flathead County MT is between Missoula and Glacier Nat. Park, right?

Yes. Whitefish, Kalispell, Columbia Falls, west entrance to the national park.

When you say “in a week”, do you mean “in a week’s time” or “NEXT week”?

In a week's time in May or June. :)

So a "woo-woo" is one of those crystal-spheres, pyramid-power guys?

DinOR: see http://www.bogusbasin.org/snow-report.aspx Looks like the recent warming trend has melted it down to only around 4' now. Lots of snow is good for a ski resort.

So a “woo-woo” is one of those crystal-spheres, pyramid-power guys?

There are many woo-woo sub-types. I am just someone who believes that our mind is more powerful than "science" will give credit for.

skibum,

I don't know why Marshall is obsessing about the credit crunch and access to Jumbo loans? A few more quarters like this and $417k will be more... than adequate!

Peter P,

Probably your best bet is a "triangle" trip flying into Boise and flying back from Spokane. Both are major airports with direct flights to SFO/SJC/OAK. Look around Boise then drive through the Sawtooth NRA and stay in Sun Valley/Ketchum. Then drive on back up Hwy. 75 to Hwy. 93 and up near the Continental Divide to Missoula. Then loop Glacier Nat. Park. Then get to Hwy. 200 through the Flathead reservation and come back into Idaho north of Pend Orelle. Drive down Hwy. 95 to Coeur d'Alene. Fly home from Spokane. You can do this in a week with two weekends, but you can't dawdle on your way.

Get the AAA map "Idaho/Montana"

DennisN,

We've sure had our share down here! I don't know for sure but we usually don't hit 110" (total) until Feb/Mar? I think 150" for the year is about standard on Mt. Hood.

PeterP - nothing personal, I just never got that excited about going to Sedona. It seemed like everytime a Los Angeles yuppie asshole type came by my place at the swapmeet, it was someone from Sedona. People from outside AZ think Sedona is the bees' knees, around here we're like, Ho, Hum.

If found it's really fun to try to explain to crystal-power types the physical/electronic characteristics in crystals and how they're used in circuits, that always draws the most dumbfounded blank stare..... not because they're getting any of it, lol.

the ones who made the most money in the American Gold Rush were the ones who sold the shovels.

Of course.

Dennis, thanks for the tip!

Boise city got its start raising crops and selling supplies to the miners up in the mountains. Those miners never got rich but it laid the foundation for Boise city's future.

On the whole, the tech industry has not made that many millionaires.

Is there an industry that has?

The Original Bankster,

So true, so true. Allow me to amplify, if you will?

On the East Coast it's all about "old money" and tracing your families wealth to the "whaling fleet".

In the mid-west, it's about applying yourself as best you can, being loyal and thinking long-term.

On the West Coast, you nailed it.

I always implore people to take the best each school of thought has to offer. Be loyal (but not to the point of stupidity) Conduct yourself w/ some dignity (but not so much it turns people off) and be resourceful and inventive (but remember, the world already has enough "idea junkies")

Please feel free to add/debunk.

Yes well the ones who DO get rich in the gold rush are HIGHLY visible so they motivate others to work hard which enriches society, generates taxes.

And it makes bay area an international magnet for smart people who work hard. Thats a positive. Despite crushing property prices, high taxes and traffic - people STILL come to bay area to launch start ups. I wonder how 'awful' it would have to be to chase this sector away? probably lots of room to get worse. 2 to a bedroom doesnt a even matter when you work 16 hour days....and thats the college dorm environment....

In the mid-west, it’s about applying yourself as best you can, being loyal and thinking long-term.

Trust funds in the East, dead dreams in the West, salt of the Earth in the middle. No bias here, eh DinOr? (Drew IN ORegon)?