patrick.net

Rightfulfillment. The authors of the contract put stipulations in the contract to protect themselves from exposure. If those stipulations were acceptable to them, why do I not have the right to exercise the same?

Can one break a cell-phone contract, an internet provider agreement, or rental agreement in the same manner? If I agree to pay rent for 12 months, on condition that the landlord keep the deposit if I do not, do I have to live there anyway? After all, I agreed to it.

Toyota bought me out of a lease I had a few months ago, if I agreed to lease another new one. Did we not agree to a new contract that was in both party's best interests?

I don't understand your subservience to the almighty banks, nor your misguided blame. In your world, isn't there any culpability on the part of megacorps and their lousy business decisions? I paid a stream of people from brokers to agents, from lenders to appraisers for their services. It appears to me that none did their jobs well. Where is their day of reckoning to come from?

CL says

I don’t understand your subservience to the almighty banks, nor your misguided blame.

Just ignore klarek - Click "ignore" by his name and his frequent diatribes will disappear. He's a rude troll who thinks he knows better than everyone else and has a condescending attitude that is less than helpful. Too bad we don't have a voting system that automagically hides posts when they descend to a certain level.

You can't fix stupid - but you can make it disappear ;)

CL,

In every contract, especially like this. There is a walking away condition, usually something along the lines of you simply handing the keys over to the bank. If it makes financial sense to you, do not hesitate.

It's your life, you have to make the choices that make your life better.

The whole notion of "walking away from the contract being unethical" is based on total bull****. In business I have seen companies walk away from contracts left and right if the terms do not satisfy them. We just recently had a company break the contract because they weren't making enough money on the deal. It's a common and standard practice in the business world. (This is capitalism)

Banks won't look out for you unless it makes them money, so treat them just the way they treat you. A temporary affair that will only last as long as you get something from the deal. If shoe is the other way around they would take your house in a heartbeat and throw you onto the street.

Hope this helps man.

Ha...of course. I don't mind pointing out hypocrisy and sanctimony, but I guess there's no point really. Will there ever be rapprochement with the laissez-faire types? Doubtful, but they can enjoy their "Atlas Shrugged" childrens' books to pass the time!

And thanks, cvoronin91335! I'll try to wear my "capitalist" hat.

The broker insisted (and I'm not exonerating myself), but his words were "7 years is a lifetime in real estate"!. Truer words never spoken, eh?

What's more ridiculous, that I got one or that they offered them? :)

Walking away is a contractual remedy. Plenty of big-name commercial developers do it all the time, so why shouldn't you? I don't know why people see this as a moral issue when it's an individual and "efficient breach of contract" when it's a corporation.

The banksters were hoping you would refi while the bubble was going on, so it's not like they weren't complicit in this. You speculated and lost, but so did the banksters.

"but his words were “7 years is a lifetime in real estate”!."

Brokers are generally uneducated idiots. A 5-7 year hold is a great way to pay lots of fees to realtors, mortgage brokers, and banksters and is basically speculation since you're depending on appreciation to cover transaction costs.

Thanks Controllio,

I agree, and when it's a corporation and there are shareholders involved, it would be negligent to not do whatever they could to get out of the contract. They have a duty and responsibility to do what's in their own best interest.

Agree on the brokers. In my years, I see so few people who actually earn their paychecks, much less substantial ones like these fools get.

But, at least they gave me a cheap bottle of Champagne on closing! (I think I still have it) :)

Sorry for the somewhat late response. I appreciate the kind words (and the not-so-kind), and of course, welcome any new comments.

I hired a lawyer, but haven't used him (although I DID pay him, :) )

My loans are both with Wells, the big loan is a Jumbo, and my credit card and checking is with USAA (which is a special bank for military, veterans, and their families--point being, they are out to help their members, unlike most banks--I doubt they would do anything negative to me in solidarity with the banksters).

@CL

How did it turn out? (if you wouldn't mind saying). In any case I hope the best for you.

Mr.Fantastic says

I don’t know about “ethical” or not, but you signed up for a 7 year Jumbo arm, that in itself just seems ridiculous.

+1

joshuatrio says

Mr.Fantastic says

I don’t know about “ethical” or not, but you signed up for a 7 year Jumbo arm, that in itself just seems ridiculous.

+1

Yeah but his realtor told him, "you can always refi or sell at profit"!

Mr.Fantastic says

He can if he holds the house until 2027 (maybe).

He may try to squat until then.

Either you are educated about UN planning or you are not. If this is a new topic for you, and you want to relieve yourself of guilt from walking away, then become educated in UN structure, legislation and long-term global planning.

One of many sources on this topic:
http://sovereignty.net/p/land/unproprts.htm

Communitarianism (a cross between socialism and communism where individual rights are second to those of the community) seeks land ownership by the community instead of the individual, much the same way a community "soviet" operated in the former USSR. Additionally and related, the "sustainable development" movement, which is very active in local communities worldwide, is directly connected to long-term UN planning.

Niki Raapana is an investigative journalist and she has been following and documenting this movement for several years. Her blog is at --
http://nikiraapana.blogspot.com/

Joan Veon (recently passed away), an expert on the UN, also documented the same thing --
http://www.newswithviews.com/Veon/joanA.htm

Good luck, and please don't feel like a "dead beat." The dead beats of society are the individuals who willfully choose to ignore UN planning and its effects on communities worldwide. Realize that the UN's two financial arms are the World Bank and the IMF, and you begin to understand where the profit motive comes from.

I realize this post will be mocked and ridiculed, but if you can manage to ignore the "consensus opinion" for a moment and take time out to do the research, you will find that this information is spot on.

Journalista says

I realize this post will be mocked and ridiculed, but if you can manage to ignore the “consensus opinion” for a moment and take time out to do the research, you will find that this information is spot on.

I'm assuming you are the same person that has posted the same stuff a few times before. I'll ask again--instead of making everyone do all the research themselves, why not share what you found?

What specifically is the UN/World Bank/IMF doing? How are they moving the world towards Communitarianism? Are they buying up properties? Where?

Notice--I'm not mocking. Just asking serious questions.

Mr.Fantastic says

tatupu is the only guy I know who is dumb enough to argue with a spam bot.

back to trolling again, huh? Obviously your reading comprehension is on the low end of the spectrum if you think I am agreeing...

To clarify - one major reason I don’t like short sales is that they can easily end up as foreclosures, anyway, after the buyer or successive buyers walk away in frustration of not getting a close-able offer approved. In the meantime, a lot of wasted effort and angry people. I am told by people whose judgment I trust that the credit reporting difference between foreclosure and short sales is a proprietary secret, but from an analyst’s point-of-view (that is, a new lender) it is negligible.

At the same time, the lengthy repo period for the lender on your current place is the only remaining benefit of ownership to you. Just because nobody ever pointed that out in selling the “benefits of ownership” doesn’t mean it isn’t a huge one.

You really need an answer for this question, I believe: if the first mortgage forecloses, and the second note becomes unsecured debt, what happens? IMO, whether it’s “recourse” or not is not the issue, because that second note is now unsecured (the foreclosure process has extinguished the mortgage lien or deed of trust security, but not the debt itself), and to the extent that it is collectable, it’s only collectable through you personally. It appears that you really want to avoid having to do a BK at the end of this.

I don’t know about California law, but there are plenty of lawyers licensed there who do. Realtors push short sales because of the 6% at closing. A short sale may make sense if you can get it approved without executing a new note (but do buyers want that type of contigency? I don’t know in your market), but a few thousand to get a sense of your real options from a knowledgeable consumer-side real estate finance attorney (description chosen carefully here) is worth it, IMO.

This was posted on the first link, and my points appear to have alread been made by others, but reposting anyway, FWIW.

"The HELOC was used to buy the home, so wouldn’t it be treated the same as the Jumbo?"

No. A common misconception. It's only treated the same way in the event that it forecloses, that is, the second deed of trust holder forecloses on its 2nd, which is relatively rare, because it takes subject to the first deed of trust and must then take over paying it. That you have identical lenders for the 1st and 2nd is a nuance here, that probably is not that important as a practical matter.

See my post above.

"a knowledgeable consumer-side real estate finance attorney (description chosen carefully here)"

"Real estate attorney" is a broad category. For example, a specialist on planning, zoning and development or boundary disputes may not know anything about consumer real estate finance.

Mr.Fantastic says

tatupu is the only guy I know who is dumb enough to argue with a spam bot.

rofl