patrick.net

simchaland says

By the way, did you pay any attention to the fact that those compensation figures on the chart to which you linked include TRS payments?
In 2011 the TRS paid by employees was 9.4% and the district only pays .58%
So suddenly 49k becomes $4890 less. It becomes $44,110 per year in actual pay. This becomes less when you take away employee contributions for their health plans. Yes they also have to kick in payments to have health insurance. I don’t feel like searching for those figures at the moment.

Nearly every working person makes a contribution for their medical insurance. I know I do. I also make contributions to my dental insurance and my 401k.

Even people who make half as much as teachers have such deductions taken right off the top of their paycheck. It's true!

Cook County resident says

simchaland says

Yes, again follow the link to see that those salaries include 9% TRS payments. So take home pay is less. Follow my link above to see that this 9% comes out of the teacher’s salary. Even your link shows that those salary figures include TRS payments that the board takes out of that 49k to pay to the TRS.

I don’t need your link, I read my post. If you think there’s some huge paradigm shifting difference between $49,000 and $44,000, that’s fine with me.

Keep in mind that teachers don't pay social security either. So it's almost a wash, really.

Cook County resident says

simchaland says

Again, average salaries can be misleading. Starting salaries are terrible.

Here’s a site in which you can find what Illinois teachers are paid. I scanned the district 214 information and I don’t think I saw one full time teacher paid under $45,000, most were paid much more:
http://www.leyden212.org/jobs/salary.htm
There are several part time teachers listed and the district may be keeping the newest teachers as part timers.
I can sympathize with young teachers, but, in 2011, their problem isn’t starting pay (at least for full timers) but the huge debt most are forced to take on, the horrible debt collection practices of the student loan creditors and the fact that there really aren’t many job openings.

I made a cut 'n paste error in my previous post. The link I wanted was:

http://www.familytaxpayers.org/salary.php

I can see how this error might have caused some confusion. If so, I'm sorry.

Wow, I must have touched a nerve... :)

A bit, I'm thinking, "Where do I sign up!"

Cook County resident says

I made a cut ‘n paste error in my previous post. The link I wanted was:
http://www.familytaxpayers.org/salary.php
I can see how this error might have caused some confusion. If so, I’m sorry.

And who is the Family Taxpayers Foundation?

Take a look at the founder: Jack Roeser

He's yet another stinking rich radical conservative extremist who lives in Barrington, IL with his millions. Also he's a Birther. He's part of that 1% who wants the rest of us to fight each other for the scraps left for us through "trickle down."

Read that Wikipedia article to find out about how in 2004 he illegally funded a series of attack ads against Barack Obama who was running for U.S. Senate in Illinois against Alan Keyes. (By the way, Alan Keyes was a Maryland Resident. He wasn't from Illinois.) And you can read about how he spread rumors in December 2009 that a Republican candidate was "gay" and how that got the Illinois Republican Party to eliminate him as a candidate.

Here's another gem from one of the FTF's pet projects in conjunction with "Americans for Truth:"

Boycott McDonald's For Promoting Homosexuality

Here's another article about it from the Christian News Wire

Do we trust those figures from such a group?

Here's another source for the information from a more reputable source. It's the actual Illinois State Board of Education. Why get your information filtered through a special interest political action committee when you can get the real information from the source?:

http://www.isbe.state.il.us/research/pdfs/teacher_salary_09-10.pdf

simchaland says

And who is the Family Taxpayers Foundation?

Take a look at the founder: Jack Roeser

He’s yet another stinking rich radical conservative extremist who lives in Barrington, IL with his millions. Also he’s a Birther. He’s part of that 1% who wants the rest of us to fight each other for the scraps left for us through “trickle down.”

What's your point? Are you saying that because Jack Roeser is a guy you disagree with, that he's got his facts wrong?

For what it's worth, I know Roeser's been around Illinois politics for while and I think he's a loon about 75% of the time. However, he has presented a easily searchable database of teacher salaries based on what he claims is public information:

http://www.familytaxpayers.org/salary.php

This is specific information, not the generalized research information in your link.

The Family Taxpayers Foundation website says:

"What can I do if there is an error in my record? The information on this website is provided by the Illinois Board of Education (ISBE). Their source for this information is the Teacher Service Record, compiled and submitted annually by local school districts."

"If you find an error in your record, you should contact your local school district and request that your information be corrected. If your local school district is not helpful, contact Mr. Mark Hobneck, mhobneck@isbe.net, at the Illinois State Board of Education."

This seems to be the ISBE database Roeser is referring to:

http://www.isbe.state.il.us/research/htmls/teacher_service_record.htm

Unfortunately, this file is crashing my copy of OpenOffice and I can't cross check the data. If you find any major discrepancies, I'd like to know.

simchaland says

Wow, I must have touched a nerve…

Yeah, this is a hot button issue with me.

About three years ago, my wife and I decided to seriously start looking for a house. We had no illusions about any economic advantages of ownership. We expected further depreciation, rather than appreciation, as well as upkeep, insurance and all the other parasitic losses. But we wanted a place to entertain and customize and call our own. We wanted to get away from crummy, poorly maintained apartment owned by incompetent landlords.

Neither of us made alot of money but we were able to afford a fixer-upper in a generally nice, quiet suburb of Chicago. The property taxes were quite low, a little less than $1000/yr. I had no real inkling of Cook County's favoritism for reliable voters such as seniors, long term homeowners and the disabled but I had no expectation that our taxes would remain that low.

My wife had overcome a couple of major surgeries for cancer and we felt sure she'd be a long term survivor. However, at the time we closed the deal for our house, she started feeling worse. Cathy died about a year and a half ago. She was smarter than me, funnier than me and better looking than me. I love her and losing her was the most painful event in my life.

A few after my wife's funeral, the county sent me a tax bill. My taxes were going up from just under $1000/yr to almost $6000/yr. More than that, I'd have to make up the unpaid back taxes for the year+ I'd been living there. Fortunately, the County was kind enough not to charge me any interest on the back taxes. Still, I'd be paying about $13,000 in 2010 where I'd only paid about$1000 in the previous year.

$13,000 is alot of money for me, even in good times. WTF??? WHERE DOES THE MONEY GO, ANYWAY? While most of the many taxing bodies on my bill are probably wasteful an inefficient, 2/3 of the total goes to two high schools and two elementary schools. The average teacher here makes about half again as much as the average family salary. The superintendent of our two high school district makes over a quarter of a million dollars a year. And, while the high school teachers are making about 50% more than the state teacher average, the kids test around the average.

But, financially at least, I got lucky. Despite the downturn, I was able to put in alot of overtime and keep up with my bills. Others have it worse. Unemployment and underemployment remain high and long term unemployment is reaching depression like lengths. State medicaid payouts are so delayed that many doctors are currently refusing medicaid patients and pharmacies have gone out of business.

But, why worry if you're in a public sector union? Just ride out the recession with guaranteed pay and pension hikes.

I sympathize... trying to follow your story, you said, "Fortunately, the County was kind enough not to charge me any interest on the back taxes." So how many years of back taxes...7 years?

American in Japan says

I sympathize… trying to follow your story, you said, “Fortunately, the County was kind enough not to charge me any interest on the back taxes.” So how many years of back taxes…7 years?

In 2010 I had to pay the 2010 taxes as well as the difference in taxes from 2009 and a few months of 2008. The increased tax rate was charged from the date we bought the house, but we were paying at the old rate until January 2010. Essentially, 2010 was a year of doubled tax payments.

I appreciate your sympathy. I was reluctant to bring all of this up but I wanted to more completely explain why this is a hot button issue with me. The tax bill came when I was in a bad position financially and an even worse position emotionally.

Screw all the teachers and their unions!!!!

I will never support another TEACHER again...until they stop protecting the lemons in their group with tenure costing the American Taxpayer hundreds of millions of dollars in pay while these arse's sit around doing nothing to teach our children.

The truth of the matter is:

Teachers get paid well for having a 3 mos vacation.
Teachers turn a blind eye to the lemons who fail to teach
Teachers use the union to politicize the money going into the system
Teachers are not responsible for the results, the parents are responsible
Parents blame teachers for their kids education however refuse to take responsibility for the upbrining of their kids.

If I can come out of highschool in Compton, CA and work my way up so can every other child. Its not the teachers faults for the decisions these kids make to follow Ice Cubes thug nation and refuse to study.

I am sick of hearing about how the unions are working to politicize my investment through liberal agendas.

Cook County resident says

I don’t think the relationship between school spending and results correlates completely. The state of Utah does well, Leyden Township doesn’t.
The best correlation seems to be between family income and student success. Obviously, wealthy people live in more expensive houses and pay more for their schools. But we in Leyden Township are about mid level in incomes and our HS students are about mid level in results, despite our high teacher salaries.
I know California has also had to deal with a large number of non-english speaking immigrants who don’t quite fit in yet and I’m vaguely aware of some scandalously wasteful building expenditures.

I think Cook County resident is on to something on the relationship between family income and school performance.
The districts that are listed as the highest 100 teacher salaries in Illinois are mostly recognizable to me. They are definitely areas with high household income and high home prices. People move there for the schools. Interesting though that Winnetka and Kennilworth are not on that list. Maybe residents in those towns use primarily private schools. It is also interesting that a Mundelein drivers ed teacher is on the list. Mundelein is not in the same category as any of the other towns. And what is it with drivers ed salaries? Maybe their salaries are higher because they put in a lot of hours outside of the normal school day and during summer.

BTW, I disapprove of public schools teaching drivers ed. This is not a good use of a student's school day. Spend that time on academics.
There are private businesses that teach drivers ed. There would be more of them if schools did not offer driver training. This would support private employment, as opposed to public employment. And, this private employer would pay business taxes instead of consuming taxes.
Private schooling is faster and offers evening sessions for driver training. It does not cost the parent that much more. Where I live, the public school fee for drivers ed is pretty close to the fee that private driver schools charge and there is a very long wait list for enrolment in HS drivers ed. This incentivizes the students to get private lessons, and frees up the HS teachers. Especially in a big city, there is absolutely no reason for the state to teach teenagers to drive. Many city residents do not own a car.