patrick.net

mell says

Agreed. Also simplify tax laws and eliminate all deductions and loopholes. These deductions are as absurd as the money printing to "fix" the economy.

yes if there are going to be taxes they need to be across the board with no special ways to get out of them just because you do or don't do something or make more or less than anyone else.

That includes the mortgage interest deduction.

otherwise get rid of them as they become a system to allow one segment to live off the other segment for free

mell says

Agreed. Also simplify tax laws and eliminate all deductions and loopholes. These
deductions are as absurd as the money printing to "fix" the economy

Redundancy isn't a viable argument.

smaulgld says

yes if there are going to be taxes they need to be across the board with no
special ways to get out of them just because you do or don't do something or
make more or less than anyone else.

That includes the mortgage interest deduction.

otherwise get rid of them as they become a system to allow one segment to
live off the other segment for free

I agree, but hopefully that includes capital gains taxes, and the ultimate scam.........estate taxes, whereas taxes were escaped for the life of an asset(land) and then thrown into a trust.

upisdown says

mell says

Agreed. Also simplify tax laws and eliminate all deductions and loopholes. These

deductions are as absurd as the money printing to "fix" the economy

Redundancy isn't a viable argument.

It's simple. Don't favorite one segment/sector of income or debt over the other, that is crony capitalism and creates distortions, scams and all kinds of unproductive "middle-men" type of businesses.

mell says

Don't favorite one segment/sector of income

But the right wants to lump that and debt together, as if they are exactly the same. They aren't, by many measures.

upisdown says

I agree, but hopefully that includes capital gains taxes, and the ultimate scam.........estate taxes, whereas taxes were escaped for the life of an asset(land) and then thrown into a trust.

upisdown says

But the right wants to lump that and debt together, as if they are exactly the same. They aren't, by many measures.

I don't understand either comment. please explain

smaulgld says

yes if there are going to be taxes they need to be across the board with no
special ways to get out of them just because you do or don't do something or
make more or less than anyone else.

upisdown says

I agree, but hopefully that includes capital gains taxes, and the ultimate
scam.........estate taxes, whereas taxes were escaped for the life of an
asset(land) and then thrown into a trust.

My point was about estate taxes, and how the semi-uber wealthy can esacpe taxes on assets that they have held for decades by transfering them into a trust, and NEVER paying the gain in equity or market value. I've seen it 50 times if I've seen it once.

smaulgld says

upisdown
says

But the right wants to lump that and debt together, as if they are exactly
the same. They aren't, by many measures.

I don't understand either comment. please explain

Income taxes on all kinds of income are usually lumped in with other taxes(estate, deductions, etc.) but don't stand a chance of scrutiny because they all lumped together as if they were exactly the same, but they aren't.

upisdown says

mell says

Don't favorite one segment/sector of income

But the right wants to lump that and debt together, as if they are exactly the same. They aren't, by many measures.

I discount both of what is considered the "right" and the "left" in the US as their monetary (and a lot of other) policies are too similar.

mell says

I discount both of what is considered the "right" and the "left" in the US as
their monetary (and a lot of other) policies are too similar.

That's a benign and bland answer. At least you could've made something up. No?

upisdown says

mell says

I discount both of what is considered the "right" and the "left" in the US as

their monetary (and a lot of other) policies are too similar.

That's a benign and bland answer. At least you could've made something up. No?

OK, a concrete example relevant to patnet:

The left and the right are debating capital gains taxes while nobody considers the absurdity that you can buy a home and sell it after 2 years and pocket 250K/500K of capital gains. On top of that there are some provisions where you can take some tax-free IRA money to provide for the down payments. I will never ever agree to any increase in capital gains taxes until these "exemptions" are removed or until everybody can take pre-tax money for whatever they decide to buy and gets an exemption for up to 250K/500K for whatever they bought as long as they sell it after 2 years. And if you want to argue left vs right, then Romney's tax plan (eliminating deductions such as mortgage interest) was a lot fairer and simpler then Obama's.

mell says

And if you want to argue left vs right, then Romney's tax plan (eliminating
deductions such as mortgage interest) was a lot fairer and simpler then Obama's.

LOL, that's like arguing the smell of shit. You miss the big picture, and the fact that Romney was patronizing you because of the ridiculousness of home ownership. It's the big picture, grasshopper.

upisdown says

mell says

And if you want to argue left vs right, then Romney's tax plan (eliminating

deductions such as mortgage interest) was a lot fairer and simpler then Obama's.

LOL, that's like arguing the smell of shit. You miss the big picture, and the fact that Romney was patronizing you because of the ridiculousnes of home ownership. It's the big picture, grasshopper.

Well you wanted a concrete example and now you are arguing the bigger picture. Let's see we have talked about the crony capitalist FIRE sector and its unfair subsidies and deductions that make absolutely no sense, the Fed counterfeiting, all of which brought you the 2008 crisis, there is no bigger picture. The monetary policies of the left and the right are the mostly the same catering to their crony masters and contributors.

upisdown says

smaulgld says

yes if there are going to be taxes they need to be across the board with no

special ways to get out of them just because you do or don't do something or

make more or less than anyone else.

upisdown says

I agree, but hopefully that includes capital gains taxes, and the ultimate

scam.........estate taxes, whereas taxes were escaped for the life of an

asset(land) and then thrown into a trust.

My point was about estate taxes, and how the semi-uber wealthy can esacpe taxes on assets that they have held for decades by transfering them into a trust, and NEVER paying the gain in equity or market value. I've seen it 50 times if I've seen it once.

I see. Where I am against the estate tax is where a family buys a home say in San francisco 30 years ago for 250K and its now worth 2.5million. There are two kids when the dad dies. One maybe is living there. The estate owes $1 million in estate taxes on the house. They have no where near that amount of money so they sell the home to a "rich " person at a low price.
That is not fair. Ditto for family farms that Monsanto buys in estate tax foreclosures.
If its yours, it also belongs to your kids-esp if in the example of the farm they work on it

upisdown says

Income taxes on all kinds of income are usually lumped in with other taxes(estate, deductions, etc.) but don't stand a chance of scrutiny because they all lumped together as if they were exactly the same, but they aren't.

Thanks, but I still don't understand. No need to try again I can remain ignorant on this when and until you raise it again!

smaulgld says

Ditto for family farms that Monsanto buys in estate tax foreclosures.
If its
yours, it also belongs to your kids-esp if in the example of the farm they work
on it

LOL, if only that were true. Owning an asset 25-40 years and never paying the the taxes on the gain in equity, but taking it out of everybody else's hide to cover for the lack of your contributions.
Then after a lifetime of subsidies, they continue to be the risk-averse sleps they always were, because there's no risk and all reward in things when the government backstops you. Then, the lazy and useless POS's won't allow the productive asset do go into REAL productive hands, because......the government checks/backstop will stop. And so, those POS's and everybody just LIKE them, bring down the sector as a whole.
But hey, the juice continues because it's vote-buyin'. It makes Tamany hall look like a rookie system.

upisdown says

But hey, the juice continues because it's vote-buyin'. It makes Tamany hall look like a rookie system.

Its hard for me to argue about what type of taxes are best as I am against them in principle!

smaulgld says

Bingo-you finally hit upon it! Eliminate the Fed's ability to print money to
monetize debt and they can no longer steal from you and me in the name of
"fixing" the economy

I set myself up for that. I mean crime in general.LOL

mell says

the absurdity that you can buy a home and sell it after 2 years and pocket
250K/500K of capital gains. On top of that there are some provisions where you
can take some tax-free IRA money to provide for the down payments.

Who did that, and why? To encourage ownership of a uselss and costly "asset', that eats money versus one that returns money, now. Is there any wonder that the uber rich own 85-90% of all liquid assets, and the vast majority of other people(middle class) own a depreciating asset called a house?

mell says

Well you wanted a concrete example and now you are arguing the bigger picture.

You really think that there's huge money in mortage deductions, considering the standard deduction amount?

You fell for the 'tax he, but not me' routine. Notice how Romney's tax brackets and playground were untouched?

Isnt the mortgage intererst deduction the largest and most widely used?