patrick.net

San Francisco is only expensive because

1. Lots of people want to live there
2. There aren't enough homes

where the second point is due to legal issues.

The protestors should be spending their time in front of City Council lobbying to allow increased density and approve more building permits so the number of new units is more in line with the 68,000 new jobs as opposed to the 6168 which are under construction.

While there they should also protest rent control which decreases the supply and increases the price of housing for people who don't benefit from the law.

donjumpsuit says

they would be penalized for moving,

How so?

bgamall4 says

As far as being penalized for moving, yes, the older folks would have to pay current property taxes. So they would be penalized.

In California you usually get to keep you prop 13 tax base if you move. Your new home has to cost less than the selling price of your old home. No penalty.

rooemoore says

they would be penalized for moving,

How so?

In California living in the same place means that your tax basis is what you paid plus the lesser of inflation and 2%.

Some people have $2M properties they've owned since 1978 which are taxed at $200K, meaning disregarding special assessments their property taxes are $2000 a year not $20,000.

If they down-sized to a $1M place elsewhere in California they'd have a $10K/year property tax bill.

Colorado avoided this problem with its Taxpayer Bill of Rights by limiting tax increases for everyone. With total tax collections only allowed to increase proportionally with the rate of inflation and population growth people who own the same property see their share of taxes drop as new buildings are built which have yet to depreciate and they don't loose a tax break by moving.

donjumpsuit says

San Francisco is expensive because 80% of the population is geriatric and dug in. They have Prop 13 and an explosion in property value to thank for that.

Nope. As of the 2010 Census only 14% of the population was over 65. A cursory search didn't turn up a more detailed breakdown for 2010, although in 2000 78% of the population was under 55 and 64% under 45.

While Proposition 13 doesn't help, zoning is the root problem which prevents developers from tearing down lower density units and building higher density complexes that would fill the demand even with old people clinging to their homes.

2000 census
2010 census

rooemoore says

In California you usually get to keep you prop 13 tax base if you move. Your new home has to cost less than the selling price of your old home. No penalty.

Only if you stay within the same county or move to a county which has voluntarily adopted Proposition 90.

My taxes are round $5,000 a year for our little town house which we bought in the 90's...

property taxes are the biggest thievery against home owners!

bgamall4 says

I can understand why people want these Google folks to go live where they work like most normal people do.

They don't. Google is in Mountain View which is 40-60+ minutes from San Francisco depending on how and when you travel not including the time you spend on things like waiting for a train.

drew_eckhardt says

Some people have $2M properties they've owned since 1998 which are taxed at $200K, meaning disregarding special assessments their property taxes are $2000 a year not $20,000.

Without Prop 13, "$20K is bubble tax", and the govt will keep, will never refund and wont change next year because they locked into long term expenditure contracts/projects.

rooemoore says

In California you usually get to keep you prop 13 tax base if you move. Your new home has to cost less than the selling price of your old home. No penalty.

Prop 60 (1986) If your over 55.

drew_eckhardt says

rooemoore says

In California you usually get to keep you prop 13 tax base if you move. Your new home has to cost less than the selling price of your old home. No penalty.

Only if you stay within the same county or move to a county which has voluntarily adopted Proposition 90.

There are several nice counties that accept prop 90. San Diego, Orange, Alameda, Los Angeles, Santa Clara to name a few. Combine that with the fact that you can downsize in your own county and the penalty can pretty easily be avoided.

donjumpsuit says

The rest of us know San Francisco proper is a shithole full of bums, naked fags (that's a term of endearment), and urine stained sidewalks.

nothing like the smell of piss in the morning... SF is not the best place to do
business, too many distractions. Its all the distractions that kills productivity.

bgamall4 says

rooemoore says

In California you usually get to keep you prop 13 tax base if you move. Your new home has to cost less than the selling price of your old home. No penalty.

Good to know but most older people don't want to move. It is difficult for them.

Well, there is the Inuit solution to that problem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senicide

You can also pass your Prop 13 assessment down to your children or grandchildren, which has to be one of the most asinine parts of Prop 13.

wave9x says

You can also pass your Prop 13 assessment down to your children or grandchildren, which has to be one of the most asinine parts of Prop 13.

I don't think that is true. I know you can pass it on to a spouse.

What a lot of people do, is they put houses into trusts. That's a loophole that allows prop 13 tax base passed on indefinitely.

FortWayne says

wave9x says

You can also pass your Prop 13 assessment down to your children or grandchildren, which has to be one of the most asinine parts of Prop 13.

I don't think that is true. I know you can pass it on to a spouse.

What a lot of people do, is they put houses into trusts. That's a loophole that allows prop 13 tax base passed on indefinitely.

Generational transfers are covered by Prop 58 and prop 193.

donjumpsuit says

I am curious about how many of those people are renting from true owners who are living elsewhere

Little Davis California here, a couple of years ago we look at TWENTY rental houses when we we needed a bigger place.

For NINETEEN of them, the story was always the owners had moved to Arizona or died or whatever, owned it since the 1970's and now the property manager was overseeing it and sending checks to the kids or gandkid who lived in the Bay Area or someplace. You think any of these rental houses had been maintained by the owners themselves, or seen update in 30+ years? NOPE! Single-pane windows and microwaves with ROTARY KNOBS aplenty.

The 20th case was a fireman who had moved up a decade or two ago, but of course instead of putting his starter home on the market for a young family, he was renting it out to a series of freshmen wrecking crews. It looked like shit on the outside, we didn't even look inside.

We got lucky with house 21.

FortWayne says

My taxes are round $5,000 a year for our little town house which we bought in the 90's...

property taxes are the biggest thievery against home owners!

That seems high. It's slightly more than I'm paying on the townhome I bought this year. So why, again, are you so against prop 13 repeal if you aren't benefitting from it?

I'd like to live in Atherton (or at least in Hillsborough), but I can't afford it because of all the billionaires pushing up the price of real estate there. What shall I picket to get this problem resolved to my satisfaction?

bgamall4 says

Straw Man says

I'd like to live in Atherton (or at least in Hillsborough), but I can't afford it because of all the billionaires pushing up the price of real estate there. What shall I picket to get this problem resolved to my satisfaction?

Not the same as the SF situation. There is no reason a house in the Mission District should be priced where it is. It is insane.

I agree: Atherton should be even cheaper because there is no view on GG bridge from anywhere in that sad little town. But it's not and this is outrageous. Where do you suggest I place a picket to get this resolved ASAP?

Straw Man says

I agree: Atherton should be even cheaper because there is no view on GG bridge from anywhere in that sad little town. But it's not and this is outrageous. Where do you suggest I place a picket to get this resolved ASAP?

Marin cheaper and far more pretty to live there than Atherton...

hanera says

Some San Francisco residents have complained that the success of the search giant and other Silicon Valley companies are driving up real-estate prices in the city

problem are the hipster pricks... not the companies. last i checked there is no Intel, AMD, Seagate or any other REAL TECH company in SF prime. why would there be ?

thomaswong.1986 says

Straw Man says

I agree: Atherton should be even cheaper because there is no view on GG bridge from anywhere in that sad little town. But it's not and this is outrageous. Where do you suggest I place a picket to get this resolved ASAP?

Marin cheaper and far more pretty to live there than Atherton...

Yes, but it's too far from my office.

Quigley says

That seems high. It's slightly more than I'm paying on the townhome I bought this year. So why, again, are you so against prop 13 repeal if you aren't benefitting from it?

Because if assholes on wall street start speculating into real estate again, my taxes will skyrocket and put me onto the street. And few years later when it all crashes down, I'll be another victim of wall street left with nothing.

Prop 13 protects me from wall street bullshit speculation. I shouldn't be forced to sell and move out of state just because some cocksucker on wall street starts manipulating the real estate market! I'm not rich, I can't afford that.

As far as high,.. yours will go up too over time. They pull that nice trick at assessors office where for a first few years they don't raise them, and then every year they raise them by I think 3%... those 3% compound over years.

hanera says

Some San Francisco residents have complained that the success of the search giant and other Silicon Valley companies are driving up real-estate prices in the city — and driving out those who don't happen to work in the booming tech industry.

But wait, aren't higher housing prices always a good thing? You know like higher gas prices, higher food prices, higher college tuition, higher healthcare costs. Spending more money on the same goods is called growth, isn't it?

no Prop 13, guess you will have to slip a couple 100 bills to the acessor when
he does a walk around your home.. im sure many other will do the same.

without prop 13, your inviting corruption and fraud... the mafia might want to move
into that racket...

FortWayne says

I don't like that either. I do think they should have excluded trusts or other financial gimmickery from the law.

they dont, the anti prop 13 will make up all kinds of shit to get the laws changed.

lie, cheat kill.. no limits there...