patrick.net

Ten dollars is fucking pitiful, and still poverty. We should be looking at at least a minimum wage of $16.00 an hour. AT LEAST.

and force 50 million into poverty of the likes they've never seen in this country since the dust bowl depression exodus.

The 3 for a dollar of yesteryear is the new 2 for 5. While that might not seem like nothing to you fantasy math types that like to pretend that $1 in 1938 money is like $5 money so it doesn't matter. The more money one needs the further he is a way from his next meal. I mean you don't even hear "anything helps" anymore.
Because a few dollars or cents when shit is affordable, can go a long way for the totally destitute.

I know I know you silly twats also like to chime in and harp about cheap healthy alternatives like it is over there in Hipville.

So Yesterday while I was on my second Publix trip, I avoided the first Publix because the cashier and I had a falling out. So actually went to three yesterday, the one on Young Circle I usually avoid the place because it is a cesspool small and just a pain the ass to shop at. While I was at the nicer Publix with the nicer clientele, earlier in the day. I noticed they had strawberries for $2.99, in fact that was what I was thinking about when I got the hankering for some later last night and some Coconut water, to alleviate my hang over I had kicking my ass yesterday.

So I went to the one on Young Circle and their straw berries were $5.99 same brand same size, plus they don't carry as much fresh assortment as the other Publix do. So I went to the third one which is by the beach again more upscale clientele.

They had fresh straw berries for $2.99 and the larger assortment of fresh cheaper alternatives than they do in those other neighborhoods.

Here's a grape for $10.00 you work 8 hours I'll give you eight grapes.

Nice end game.

CaptainShuddup says

and force 50 million into poverty of the likes they've never seen in this country since the dust bowl depression exodus.

Nah. This assumes all things in the equation remained equal, which, of course, is a fallacy of reason in this case, because all things would not be equal, by the very nature of the increase! Look at Australia. Never had a recession, and their min wage is ~ 16 bucks an hour. Meanwhile, the cost of a Big Mac in downtown Melbourne is only 35 cents higher than it is here in the states. And when you eventually need a bypass, your medical treatment won't leave you destitute!

Trust me, it'd be a much cooler place to live if people actually had some jingle in their jeans after payday. In fact, I bet that Publix cashier wouldn't be half so hateful toward you if her life wasn't hanging by a thread. Publix makes insane profits, at the expense to both you, the customer who has to drive all over town to get what he needs, and their employees, who are disgruntled and distracted by fantasies of shooting you in the face.

Will the cashier be happier when she is replaced by an automatic check-out machine? Minimum wage laws only ban jobs. Given the current high rate of unemployment among unskilled workers (the young), higher minimum wage would just make even more jobs illegal.

Aussies currently have higher minimum rate because their currency has appreciated dramatically in recent years due to the commodity boom. Aussie dollar used to be about half of the US dollar, but now is near-parity. Hamburgers are cheap there because Australia is a major beef exporter in the world. If you check out their car prices, you'd know their car prices are nearly double ours for comparable models.

Reality says

Minimum wage laws only ban jobs.

Not true. There is absolutely zero evidence to support this.

Reality says

Aussies currently have higher minimum rate because their currency has appreciated dramatically in recent years due to the commodity boom.

Sorry, but also not true. Their strong minimum wage laws go back further than a recent years. Their dollar is doing stronger, in part, because they never had a recession; part of why they never had a recession is because they have laws mandating a livable minimum wage.

Reality says

Hamburgers are cheap there because Australia is a major beef exporter in the world.

Again, nothing to do with it, as India is far and away the larger producer and exporter of the worlds beef supply.

We could point to other necessities. I'm simply citing the Big Mac index, which the Economist Magazine publishes every year.

JodyChunder says

Trust me, it'd be a much cooler place to live if people actually had some jingle in their jeans after payday. In fact, I bet that Publix cashier wouldn't be half so hateful toward you if her life wasn't hanging by a thread. Publix makes insane profits, at the expense to both you, the customer who has to drive all over town to get what he needs, and their employees, who are disgruntled and distracted by fantasies of shooting you in the face.

LOL.

This post is so much fail. Dude why are you comparing Australia to U.S.? I mean that's apples to oranges... The US is much larger has a much different economy.

A better comparison would be Austrila and Texas. They both have the same relative population size. Texas is 26 million and Australia is 23 million. Now with that said, minimum wage in Texas is $7.25 and in Australia it's as you know $16.

Now you mentioned something about Australia's cost of living is cheaper because of McDonalds... Seriously? Your'e going to use Mikey D's as an example? Here first thing is first... There are only 28... YES 28 McDonald restaurants in Australia... The City of AUSTIN, TEXAS ALONE has 35! Lol. With high minimum wage it's only natural for McDonalds to have such a small amount of restaurants because let's face it Mikey D's wouldn't even be capable of opening that many stores and providing that many jobs in Australia as they have in Texas with minimum wage being $16/hr. This alone is proof that higher minimum wage kills jobs.. BUT LETS DO GO ON!

Now how about the economy? Texas unemployment is about 6% Australia 5.8% so about the same. Youth unemployment rate between the two are also about the same. GDP for both are about the same, GDP per capita are also about the same. So both economies are similar so what's different?

Well...I'd say COST OF LIVING IS DIFFERENT BY FAR.

In Texas you can buy a 2,926 sq ft 2-STORY home for $350k. In Australia you can buy a 2,000 sq ft SINGLE STORY home for you guessed it... $350k.. Geez, you're getting a lot less for the same price.

I can go on but I am hoping by now you're getting the picture.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Every last dime of it will be absorbed by rent. Landlords will read the paper and be waiting on the stairs to collect it. ASSHOLE! YOU'VE GOT ANOTHER $200 THAT BELONGS THE FUCK TO ME! HAND IT THE FUCK OVER OR DEAL WITH THE GUY WITH HIS DICK HANGING OUT ON THE NEXT LAWN!

Somebody get AF a straightjacket!

tovarichpeter says

$10 minimum wage will lift 5 million out of poverty

Worked for Auto industry in Detroit.. im sure it will work for all other industries in all other cities/metros. Results will speak for them self.

Shostikovitch clearly sees the light.. the truth and the future.

spydah_hh says

Now how about the economy? Texas unemployment is about 6% Australia 5.8% so about the same. Youth unemployment rate between the two are also about the same. GDP for both are about the same, GDP per capita are also about the same. So both economies are similar so what's different?

both are doing very well from Natural Resource mining and oil drilling. They are both in a sweet spot for decades to come.

Education will do it better.

JodyChunder says

Reality says

Minimum wage laws only ban jobs.

Not true. There is absolutely zero evidence to support this.

JodyChunder says

Reality says

Hamburgers are cheap there because Australia is a major beef exporter in the world.

Again, nothing to do with it, as India is far and away the larger producer and exporter of the worlds beef supply.

You are your own caricature

We don't need higher minimum wages, we need to ban immigration and impose high tariffs on imports.

spydah_hh says

In Texas you can buy a 2,926 sq ft 2-STORY home for $350k. In Australia you can buy a 2,000 sq ft SINGLE STORY home for you guessed it... $350k.. Geez, you're getting a lot less for the same price.

I'd bet you could find a 2000 sqft single story house selling for the same price as a 3000 sqft two story house in any single metro area in the US or Australia.

JodyChunder says

Trust me, it'd be a much cooler place to live if people actually had some jingle in their jeans after payday.

You're assuming just because minimum wage will be higher that there will be more paydays.

This whole argument is a failure of a government and a refusal to make hard choices that would piss off their campaign donors more than they worry about pissing off their constituents.

Of course there could be many $10 or more jobs, the country should be full of them, along with affordable gas and food.

Demanding a higher minimum wage is like demanding that nobody drink piss unless they put a spoon of grape koolaid powder drink mix in it. It's still piss, now it's the just purple piss, the liberal hearts like to bleed. While they claim they are making a difference.

Suggesting a $10 minimum wage in a time where companies are doing every thing they can to game the tax code, and convert more jobs into minimum wage jobs. Is the modern equivalent of Let them eat cake.

thomaswong.1986 says

spydah_hh says

Now how about the economy? Texas unemployment is about 6% Australia 5.8% so about the same. Youth unemployment rate between the two are also about the same. GDP for both are about the same, GDP per capita are also about the same. So both economies are similar so what's different?

both are doing very well from Natural Resource mining and oil drilling. They are both in a sweet spot for decades to come.

Oh I know. But even then Australia is much more expensive to live in than Texas.

JodyChunder says

Minimum wage laws only ban jobs.

Not true. There is absolutely zero evidence to support this.

hmm, the minimum wage law literally says jobs paying less than a certain amount are outlawed. duh.

JodyChunder says

Reality says

Aussies currently have higher minimum rate because their currency has appreciated dramatically in recent years due to the commodity boom.

Sorry, but also not true. Their strong minimum wage laws go back further than a recent years.

You are repeating what I was saying. Their minimum wage laws were in place before currency appreciation. With currency appreciation in recent years, the number looks big now after current conversion whereas it was only half as much when the law was put in place.

Their dollar is doing stronger, in part, because they never had a recession; part of why they never had a recession is because they have laws mandating a livable minimum wage.

LOL. No they did not have laws mandating a livable minimum wage. Their minimum wage law was put in place when the Aussie dollar was half of US$. A$16 was less than US$8 when the law was put in place.

Laws mandating livable wage (i.e. wage enough to provide for a family) is just another way of saying each family can only have one bread winner legally; everyone else, especially at the lower social strata, would have to start at illegal jobs like drug dealing and prostitution first. JodyChunder says

Reality says

Hamburgers are cheap there because Australia is a major beef exporter in the world.

Again, nothing to do with it, as India is far and away the larger producer and exporter of the worlds beef supply.

We could point to other necessities. I'm simply citing the Big Mac index, which the Economist Magazine publishes every year.

Look at the index yourself, Big Mac is even cheaper in India: it costs about 1/3 the price of the US. Further proof that the Australian phenomenon is the result of currency appreciation due to commodity boom in the past decade.

zzyzzx says

We don't need higher minimum wages, we need to ban immigration and impose high tariffs on imports.

Unfortunately both policies would also lead to even worse standards of living for Americans . . . simply because the cost of enforcement would have to be carried by the Americans for whom the imported services and goods would become unavailable or priced higher in the black market.

There is literally nothing to very little the government can do to improve the overall standards of living of a society. Everything the government does results in more damage than the "good" that it sets out to do.

Reality says

There is literally nothing to very little the government can do to improve the overall standards of living of a society. Everything the government does results in more damage than the "good" that it sets out to do.

That's the result we choose our politicians in the same way we choose which brand of soda we drink. Through a big production advertisement campaign. We don't elect officials we consume them.

There's been plenty of examples in America where the right people in Government made all the difference in the world.

JodyChunder says

Ten dollars is fucking pitiful, and still poverty. We should be looking at at least a minimum wage of $16.00 an hour. AT LEAST.

Totally agree. As someone who worked in big box retail and later for a privately owned place, well I started at $7 an hour and eventually worked my way up to $15 at the mom and pop place ( there was no way in hell I would have ever made that at any of the big box stores)

At $15 an hour, I was just able to pay rent, pay my bills, and save a tiny bit at the end of each month. It was doable but I wasn't getting rich. Now- keep in mind that was over 12 years ago. $15 an hour now might as well be $8 back then.

All I know is that a swift look at the world's richest people charts shows quite a few of those multi-billionaires are owners of big box stores. So you have to ask is their wealth from selling a lot of product or from not paying their employees jack? Its probably a combination of the two, but I fail to see an argument that they can't afford to pay their staff better.

zzyzzx says

We don't need higher minimum wages, we need to ban immigration and impose high tariffs on imports

Ridiculous. If you were to cut imports, well for starters auto manufactures, the tech industry, the pharmaceutical companies, and basically every other industry would have to shut their doors immediately. Millions of Americans would lose their jobs overnight. The US and then global economy would fall into a depression.

What you're suggesting was partially done in the 30's during that depression- at a time when the US actually made most of what it sold- and even then the result was a drastic deepening of that depression.

So glad some of you are nowhere close to being in a position to making decisions in regards to running the country.

CaptainShuddup says

There's been plenty of examples in America where the right people in Government made all the difference in the world.

Names?

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Every last dime of it will be absorbed by rent.

Agree...

If we raise the cost of labor, the Job Creators will just pass the cost on to the consumer in the form of higher prices.

Fuck that!

Bangladeshi children made my socks? Well, they should have made better life decisions: fuck 'em.

edvard2 says

What you're suggesting was partially done in the 30's during that depression- at a time when the US actually made most of what it sold- and even then the result was a drastic deepening of that depression.

That's a free trade red herring. The Tariff rate was about 40% before Smoot-Hawley, and about 50% after. There was no trade war - French, UK, and Canadian tariffs only went up by a bit on average, after the Depression was in full swing, and before the law took effect Global Trade was already way, way down. Smoot Hawley became law long after the unemployment rate was in the double digits, and long after the stock market collapse, in 1931, 2 years into the Depression. And Smoot Hawley reduced some tariffs to nothing or next-to-nothing, like on books and periodicals.

Also, the GDP from trade in the US in 1931 was only about 2% of the GDP. How could the Depression be caused by a tariff that effected only 2% of GDP?

The USA has had a 25%+ general tariff rate from the Early Republic to the 1970s. Free Traders have done a great job making Americans think Free Trade and Low Tariffs is a long US tradition, when it's only about as old as the New Society.

The Tariff is why Mexico had no industry in 1920, but the US was churning out goods left and right. Low Tariffs are beloved by the rentier class that produces nothing, has no interest in encouraging producing, and wants access to everything at no additional cost.

China is experiencing ridiculous growth with a very high tariff. They will never reduce the tariff unilaterally, only US pressure by reciprocating tariffs will do so.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=qzV

Probably no relation here.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=qzW

Even better, since 1980.

1976 - Hart-Scott-Rodino Antitrust Improvements Act PL 94-435
1977 - Emergency Natural Gas Act PL 95-2
1978 - Airline Deregulation Act PL 95-50
1978 - National Gas Policy Act PL 95-621
1980 - Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act PL 96-221
1980 - Motor Carrier Act PL 96-296
1980 - Regulatory Flexibility Act PL 96-354
1980 - Staggers Rail Act PL 96-448
1982 - Garn–St. Germain Depository Institutions Act PL 97-320
1982 - Bus Regulatory Reform Act PL 97-261
1989 - Natural Gas Wellhead Decontrol Act PL 101-60
1992 - National Energy Policy Act PL 102-486
1996 - Telecommunications Act PL 104-104
1999 - Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act PL 106-102

2000 - The Commodity Futures Modernization Act
2006 - Credit Rating Agency Reform Act of 2006
2010 – Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act

The inflection point around 1986....Hhhmmmm..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Reform_Act_of_1986

edvard2 says

All I know is that a swift look at the world's richest people charts shows quite a few of those multi-billionaires are owners of big box stores. So you have to ask is their wealth from selling a lot of product or from not paying their employees jack? Its probably a combination of the two, but I fail to see an argument that they can't afford to pay their staff better.

Both the employer and the employee are partners in production. The real boss is the consumer. When was the last time when you voluntarily paid the check-out girl a 20% tip after she ran up your bill? I'm sure you can "afford" to pay her that tip.

The answer to that is quite simple: you didn't pay her 20% extra for her good looks because you could use the same money for someone else' productive output. Likewise, the managers of the big box stores have other use for the funds; whenever they use those funds, they create jobs elsewhere. The big box stores are profitable because consumers shop there and are willing to pay up.

thunderlips11 says

China is experiencing ridiculous growth with a very high tariff. They will never reduce the tariff unilaterally, only US pressure by reciprocating tariffs will do so.

The rapid economic growth in China coincide with drastic reduction in tariff rates in that country. Their tariff rates used to be much much higher before they "opened up" their socialist economy to trade with the west.

Reality says

The rapid economic growth in China coincide with drastic reduction in tariff rates in that country. Their tariff rates used to be much much higher before they "opened up" their socialist economy to trade with the west.

China has about a 25% average tariff on autos from the US.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/baizhuchen/2012/07/12/tear-down-this-wall-the-chinese-tariff-wall/

I believe VAT is also due the moment the goods cross into China, which is about 12-15% on top of the tariff.

There's no doubt China manages it's tariffs thoughtfully. They want more car manufacturing, so that's tariffed right now. Certain things like laptops and electronics have no tariff, but that is closing the barn door after the horse has left; it's just a way for China to say "Hey, see? We have free trade on somethings - AFTER we took all your chip business, we lowered the tariff." The British pulled the same shit in the 19th after they Destroyed the Indian Clothing industry. When China takes a big chunk of the auto business from the rest of the world, they'll probably ditch the 25% tariff too.

BTW, glad you said socialist economy, about a quarter of China's industrial capacity is from SOEs.

Reality says

Unfortunately both policies would also lead to even worse standards of living for Americans . . . simply because the cost of enforcement would have to be carried by the Americans for whom the imported services and goods would become unavailable or priced higher in the black market.

Unemployment was way lower when we made our own stuff.
Enforcing immigration laws can be done on the cheap. Just mine the border and have helicopter gunships gun down any one who tries to illegally cross the border.

edvard2 says

Ridiculous. If you were to cut imports, well for starters auto manufactures, the tech industry, the pharmaceutical companies, and basically every other industry would have to shut their doors immediately. Millions of Americans would lose their jobs overnight. The US and then global economy would fall into a depression.

Ridiculous! We would make things like cars for ourselves instead of importing them.

Call it Crazy says

HydroCabron says

Bangladeshi children made my socks? Well, they should have made better life decisions: fuck 'em.

What??? Do you have a problem with these children working for their gruel each day??

That's racist!!

These children are not cost-effective.

They are therefore ASSHOLES!

zzyzzx says

Reality says

Unfortunately both policies would also lead to even worse standards of living for Americans . . . simply because the cost of enforcement would have to be carried by the Americans for whom the imported services and goods would become unavailable or priced higher in the black market.

Unemployment was way lower when we made our own stuff.

Enforcing immigration laws can be done on the cheap. Just mine the border and have helicopter gunships gun down any one who tries to illegally cross the border.

Just put a few dozen contractors in jail and seize their assets under the RICO act for conspiracy to violate labor laws. A few days of Attorneys hanging around a few random Home Depots ought to do it. Do the same for a few restaurants in LA, NY, and Dallas, problem solved.

Penalties for violating US labor laws -> Fear of hiring illegals - no work for illegals - word gets around - illegals stop coming in large numbers.

Oh, and ditch NAFTA. The #2 reason for illegals is that the US subsidies corn to big Agrabusiness, which killed Mexican production, leaving millions without work.

While I am all for efforts to improve standard of living, I am not sure that raising min wage to $10 per hr will accomplish this. Currently, fed min wage is $7.25 so even assuming that it is full timers who get the increase (and I am sure most of them would be part timers), we are talking $2.75*8*5*4.32 = $475.2 per month. Assuming regular payroll taxes + whatever little is paid to feds/state, assume 15% goes to taxation which results in $403 net pay increase per month. Now if someone is a homeowner (and most working minimum wage are not) it could make a difference in living standards, but if someone is a renter, landlord will surely capture at least 60% of this "increase" and deathcare/education/grocery store/insurance will take care of the rest. And the benevolent "job creators" will do their best to pass on the "higher cost of doing business" to the customers. And in Cali where minumum wage is $8, it will be even easier for this scenario to materialize.

thomaswong.1986 says

tovarichpeter says

$10 minimum wage will lift 5 million out of poverty

Worked for Auto industry in Detroit.. im sure it will work for all other industries in all other cities/metros. Results will speak for them self.

How's car manufacturing in Germany doing?

thunderlips11 says

thomaswong.1986 says

tovarichpeter says

$10 minimum wage will lift 5 million out of poverty

Worked for Auto industry in Detroit.. im sure it will work for all other industries in all other cities/metros. Results will speak for them self.

How's car manufacturing in Germany doing?

Doing great!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2011/12/21/germany-builds-twice-as-many-cars-as-the-u-s-while-paying-its-auto-workers-twice-as-much/
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSWEA00DDB20131002?irpc=932

New Renter says

Doing great!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2011/12/21/germany-builds-twice-as-many-cars-as-the-u-s-while-paying-its-auto-workers-twice-as-much/

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSWEA00DDB20131002?irpc=932

But New Renter, that can't be!!! Everybody knows low wages are essential to a prosperous economy!

this is a setup by the fast food industry. when the workers get more money they are going to implement robot/machines and kiosks and get rid of up to 60 percent of their workers. and no one will be mad at them because they will be looked upon as doing it in self defense. yes, they a machine can make a burger from scratch and even wrap it.

casandra says

this is a setup by the fast food industry. when the workers get more money they are going to implement robot/machines and kiosks and get rid of up to 60 percent of their workers.

Yea that is it alright, the rest don't know what they are talking about.

Or as AF would say they inexplicably hate freedom.

thunderlips11 says

China is experiencing ridiculous growth with a very high tariff. They will never reduce the tariff unilaterally, only US pressure by reciprocating tariffs will do so.

China isn't a good example they don't follow the WTO laws. For a long time they actually screwed the rest of the world and mostly the U.S. by depreciating their currency so they could encourage exports but ban imports which is against the world trade organization rules.

Honestly, they still do this. But the truth is China's economy is a hidden facade. Their housing bubble is enormous, they have no middle class and all wealth is held by the government and not the people. They're just taking advantage of the world right now. But if U.S.A. or Europe were to go down China too will go down hard, because you can't sustain an economy based on exports, no middle class, redistribution of wealth, and a fake housing market.