patrick.net

If the Mill X Y er's haven't figured out how to transfer student debt to a HELOC, default and live rent free for at least five years, then declare bankruptcy, then there is nothing more our system can do for them.

Call it Crazy says

Ceffer says

If the Mill X Y er's haven't figured out how to transfer student debt to a HELOC, default and live rent free for at least five years, then declare bankruptcy, then there is nothing more our system can do for them.

See... there is a solution!!!

Sorry Grandpa, unless the banks start making jumbo loans to unemployed strawberry pickers again this isn't an option.

New Renter says

Clearly you haven't had to look for an entry level job with no degree or experience in quite a while.

Even a number of years ago, those with engineering/applied science BS degrees, but without internship/CO-OP experiences, almost never got called back for a 2nd interview.

I'd even known a few magna cum laudes in that category, who'd spent their summers working at JC Penny or doing ppl's lawns, and ended up jobless upon graduation, outside of course, the JC Pennys.

Since I'd gone through the above, even having to have to volunteer during frosh year summer at a lab facility, just to get that first line item experience on the classic R&D *entry level* resume, I'm surprised that Millenials don't even start to think about this stuff, until nearer to graduation.

Call it Crazy says

Rin says

I'm surprised that Millenials don't even start to think about this stuff, until nearer to graduation.

They don't think of it EVER!!!

They expect that $60K job the day after graduation, just because they "deserve" it...

As a GenXer, I don't get it.

I'd seen a number of persons, all get blasted aparted, during that senior year, when the Proctor & Gambles, Applied Materials, IBMs, DuPonts, etc, had sent them that thin envelope.

You see, job outplacement is not like getting into a graduate school. One can get into some Masters program, by having a 3.0 GPA, sometimes even less.

For many corporate parachutes, they only use the grades to pre-screen the candidates. Afterwards, no internships = no follow up interview. They simply don't want green people, even for an entry level job. I'd even argue that it's easier to get into a US medical school, since most ppl apply to some 15-20, then it is to get a job at various R&D labs.

Rin says

They simply don't want green people, even for an entry level job. I'd even argue that it's easier to get into a US medical school, since most ppl apply to some 15-20, then it is to get a job at various R&D labs.

BTW, this is why I encourage STEM graduates to apply for MD programs. Almost all MDs can find some work, even if it's in some Indian Reservation in western North Dakota.

Call it Crazy says

There are many good paying jobs that don't require ANY degrees

True, there are some very lucrative options available:

1) hooker
2) drug dealer
3) thug
4) Social media CEO and oligarch
5) medical test subject
6) unpaid intern (might get tips)
7) yam farmer (yams will be traded weight for weight for gold)

did I miss any?

New Renter says

did I miss any?

Day Trader

And if you're successful, you'll get hired by a prop trading company.

sbh says

New Renter says

did I miss any?

any other strawmen? I'm sure there's a ton. How old are you? How's your physical health? I could train you to do timber inventory in one month and if you had any ambition and any grit pay you $30 an hour (as many hours as you can cram down your beak) until you got your sole proprietorship. In three years you could gross 100k if you wanted to. Or not. I don't want to train you and you don't want to be a grunt.

Could you train me? Sure!

Would someone hire me? HR sez not without a degree.

Rin says

New Renter says

did I miss any?

Day Trader

And if you're successful, you'll get hired by a prop trading company.

And somehow I also forgot flipping shacks - tisk tisk..

Good point sbh. Plumber, electrician, machinist, pipe fitter, mechanic, mason, carpenter, carpet layer, balustrade-constructor, etc etc. All of these jobs can make reasonable money, some quite a lot more than the afforementioned $60k.
I graduated in STEM with $50k debt, saw the light, and went blue collar. I make a very good living, at least twice what I could aspire to in my educated field.

Quigley says

All of these jobs can make reasonable money, some quite a lot more than the afforementioned $60k.

I graduated in STEM with $50k debt, saw the light, and went blue collar.

I knew an Electrical Engineering masters degree person, who'd become an electrician, after getting beaten down by his adviser in graduate school.

He had no parachute, upon graduation, like a Raytheon, GE, or Texas Inst, so instead, he was able to become a junior apprentice. Well, it's worked out for him. I think he's clearly making a low six figure salary now and has a control over his hours. The thing is that he could have done all of that, without a BS/MS in EE.

sbh says

New Renter says

Would someone hire me?

If you're serious, I know a guy. Do you want his name. He runs forestry grads fresh out of school. Piecework, baby! They go up into the woods young and strong.......and drop like fuckin' flies.....it knocks their dick in the dirt. School doesn't teach you how to work. You do that on your own. Anyway, you want the name of the guy? He's an asshole.

I know someone who might. He has a bachelors degree but can't find a local job that pays the rent much less anything else so he's going back to his former gig of long distance trucking.

He had his own gardening service for many years so yes, he has

worked 10 hours in raingear when it's 40 degrees and full of wet brush on a 50% slope

and worse.

sbh says

He's an asshole.

Sounds like a really neat opportunity.

The thing about such jobs is that if you weren't an asshole to start with, they'll turn you into one!

sbh says

Indiana Jones says

For Boomers to start to let go of the control and power so Gen Xers have a chance to lead and make some changes before the Gen X generation gets too old and dies

Explain this a little more for me please; specifically how anyone should systematically dis-empower themselves.

No disempowerment needed: RETIRE! RETIRE! Please, just &*~*% RETIRE!

BTW, SBH, thank you for leading the way by retiring.

Quigley says

The thing about such jobs is that if you weren't an asshole to start with, they'll turn you into one!

Survival of the assholiest!

sbh says

BTW, SBH, thank you for leading the way by retiring.

As I tell my wife, there is no reason to have worked so bloody hard if you don't stop and spend the money. The problem, Indy, is that I don't stop voting. I don't have enough money to buy a Congressman, so there really is no shift in power. Besides, forest management is going the way of the dodo. To get the power you talk about you'll have to take it.

Am I reading this right or are you suggesting, ahem…Revolution?!

Revolution with the above suggestions would be a powerful force. As long as we are united and eager to sacrifice, we can be the change we want to see in the world.

hrhjuliet says

Revolution with the above suggestions would be a powerful force. As long as we are united and eager to sacrifice, we can be the change we want to see in the world.

I agree with a peaceful revolution. Anything else would be suicide. The oligarchs can buy way more arms and foot soldiers than we ever could. We need to get into the streets and gum up their works. Shut cities down with masses of people, particularly the larger, more economically important cities. Violence will only give the corporate media the images it craves to pain any resistance as hoodlums and terrorists. Disciplined, peaceful protest will give us a better chance.

futuresmc says

hrhjuliet says

Revolution with the above suggestions would be a powerful force. As long as we are united and eager to sacrifice, we can be the change we want to see in the world.

I agree with a peaceful revolution. Anything else would be suicide. The oligarchs can buy way more arms and foot soldiers than we ever could. We need to get into the streets and gum up their works. Shut cities down with masses of people, particularly the larger, more economically important cities. Violence will only give the corporate media the images it craves to pain any resistance as hoodlums and terrorists. Disciplined, peaceful protest will give us a better chance.

I agree an armed revolution would be a once sided battle under most conceivable circumstances. It is also unnecessary.

A better form of protest is with your pocketbook.

1) If you haven't already transfer your money from banks, especially banks with high fees to a credit union.

2) Don't watch anything owned by Newscorp and let their sponsors know you will not buy their products as long as they advertise on the programs you feel are misleading the American public the most. When people talk about something erroneous they "learned" from Newscorp let them know (civilly) they've been lied to and offer proof.

3) Familiarize yourself with the holding of the worst of the oligarchs and buy appropriately. For instance the Kock Brothers own Georgia Pacific pulp who makes the following products:

* Angel Soft, Quilted Northern, and Soft n' Gentle are toilet paper and facial tissue brands.
* Blue Ribbon, Clutter Cutter, DensArmor Plus, DensDeck, DensGlass, DensShield, DryPly, FireGuard, GP Lam, Hushboard, Nautilus, Ply-Bead, Plytanium, Southern Gold, Sta-Strait, Thermostat, ToughRock, Wood I Beam, and XJ 85 are building and remodeling brands.
* Brawny, Dixie, Insulair, Mardi Gras, PerfecTouch, Sparkle, Ultra, and Vanity Fair are tableware, paper towel and napkin brands.
* Advantage, Image Plus, and Spectrum are office paper brands.

If you don't like the politics of the Koch brothers avoid buying these brands as well as the products of anything else they touch.

This is not easy, oligarchs already own everything. Still with time and enough of a movement we may be able to diminish the influence of the worst of them.

Call it Crazy says

futuresmc says

Anything else would be suicide. The oligarchs can buy way more arms and foot soldiers than we ever could.

I don't think that's actually true.... Reflect back on how one guy (his name was Dorner) tied up huge police resources when they were looking for him in CA. Also, look back at those two brothers who did the Boston Marathon bombing. They also tied up a boat load of LEO resources....

If a bunch of organized groups decide to take matters in their own hands, the local LEO could do nothing about it....

I think the oligarchs woudl depend on private armies like Eric Prince and Blackwater. Those guys would not be required to be nice in hunting down enemies of the oligarchs. The oligarchs also have a massive propaganda machine to whitewash any travesties committed in the prosecution of such freedom fighters/terrorists:

Remember Michael Hastings?

http://www.sandiego6.com/story/details-of-reporter-hastings-death-remain-elusive-20130708

That is the method I'd guess woudl be used to deal with any significant individual threat.

sbh says

New Renter says

* Angel Soft, Quilted Northern, and Soft n' Gentle are toilet paper and facial tissue brands.

Whew! I'm a real toilet paper snob and have to have my Charmin. Hate the Kochs. Dodged a bullet there.

Well there's something else we have in common :)

jojo says

Nuclear reactor meltdown etc.

So how are things in Japan these days?

The pocketbook insurgency hasn't happened although that has floated for years. Either consumers are just not educated enough, or they don't care. Face it, if money is tight, you are going to buy whatever is the best deal or whatever is on sale. Many do not have the luxury of buying with their conscience. Look at the amazing rise of the dollar stores.

Peaceful protest need high numbers and strong insightful leadership to work. All it takes is someone on the fringe to do something stupid or violent and all the peaceful intentions get chucked out the window. And most people are placated with government handouts, tv, roku, video games and endless and cheap fast food--why the hell should anything change?

Because of the reliance of all things technical, might technology play a part in disabling those that hold the cards?