patrick.net

controllio said: I'm pretty sure it's enough to say that the alleged $755K sale is bogus, and this isn't just a casual 1-year flip.
You said it, not me :-) I'll see you two LLCs and a WaMu mortgage.

That Zillow estimate (Zestimate) is $922,00 for 430 N 2ND St San Jose, CA 95112. I can't imagine they put that much renovation and repair into this home to warrant a sales price of $1.5 million.

This home is useless to a family.

It's basically a frat house being so close to SJSU and the obvious customers will be students from SJSU. Good luck managing eight separate 18-22 year olds under one door chasing rent money from the students mom and dad and constantly have to manage enter/exit. That's not withstanding whatever issues that comes up over 18-22 year old who will drink, smoke or worse.

That 200K upgrade (exaggerated, err deferred maintenence catch-up) may last about 24 months before another 50K maintenence is required. This house was remodeld with the expectation it will be trashed in two years because you cannot replace things any cheaper than this. I see several $400 fridge and $499 gas range and $299 hooded microwaves. 25K in electrical upgrade to get a $19 lighting fixture, and white on white. lol

No amount of yield is worth that level of migraine. These properties drain cash on the maintenance side anyway and yields way less than it appears anyway. There is no chance on this green earth it gets 1.5M. Put it this way, I rather rent to one person for 5K a month than 8 students

What a crappy remodeling job. Fake upgrade terribly-fitting kitchen straight from Home Depot. Scary-looking bathroom re-do. Too cheap to box-in that huge waste pipe. Chopped-up rooms with the weird row of three doors. If you weren't an insomniac before moving there, you would become one. Like out of "Trainspotting".

beetles says

What a crappy remodeling job. Fake upgrade terribly-fitting kitchen straight from Home Depot. Scary-looking bathroom re-do. Too cheap to box-in that huge waste pipe. Chopped-up rooms with the weird row of three doors. If you weren't an insomniac before moving there, you would become one. Like out of "Trainspotting".

The finish is great considering the low $925-$1095 rent on studios and $1250-$1600 for the one-bedroom units in Silicon Valley.

drew_eckhardt says

beetles says

What a crappy remodeling job. Fake upgrade terribly-fitting kitchen straight from Home Depot. Scary-looking bathroom re-do. Too cheap to box-in that huge waste pipe. Chopped-up rooms with the weird row of three doors. If you weren't an insomniac before moving there, you would become one. Like out of "Trainspotting".

The finish is great considering the low $925-$1095 rent on studios and $1250-$1600 for the one-bedroom units in Silicon Valley.

Perhaps but imagine what it will look like after a year or two of fraternity living.

If this thing sells at the asking price to the penny, I'll quit this forum. LOL.

Here we have competition. This time more $/sqft, pure and ready for your improvements.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/402-N-3rd-St-95112/home/1084920

I will miss you bubblesitter.

REpro says

I will miss you bubblesitter.

This thing won't sell at the asking price, so I'll be still around!

mell says

True, I don't even consider public transportation because SF is not that big, so that was for bicycle, motorbike, or cars.

Yeah, but if you don't take Muni, you have to bend over for parking too. A bike works sometimes, but gets stolen often -- I know people who've had them taken from their garage in broad daylight, and SFPD isn't too helpful about getting them back.

EBGuy says

I'll see you two LLCs and a WaMu mortgage.

Was there a mortgage filed too? I didn't even look for that. I did see the LLCs, but that could just be for development purposes -- pretty common. The only other easy explanation is if the original owner from 1995 sold it but took a mortgage back, and then it essentially got foreclosed and went back to the original owner. That seems less likely, but not impossible.

I think my suggestion is more likely.

REpro says

Here we have competition. This time more $/sqft, pure and ready for your improvements.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/402-N-3rd-St-95112/home/1084920

They've been trying to unload that albatross since 2008!

I like the recent price history:

Mar 06, 2014
Price Changed
$1,550,000

Aug 30, 2013
Price Changed
$1,650,000

Aug 27, 2013
Listed (Active)
$1,250,000

I wonder if the $1.25 million was a typo or they quickly decided to raise the price -- usually a typo gets fixed faster than 3 days, especially during the week.

That price makes no sense re: cashflow for the 5 units. They are saying $5300/mo + the owner pays a lot of the utilities. It has an interesting ownership history too, probably has a ton of deferred maintenance, and the owner has had some trouble paying the taxes on occasion. The price would only make sense if the units were in perfect condition and rented at a much higher price.

430 is suggesting cash flow twice that, plus tenants pick up more utilities.

bubblesitter says

REpro says

I will miss you bubblesitter.

This thing won't sell at the asking price, so I'll be still around!

It's not going for the asking price, unless a real estate agent buys it. People are getting wise. I lot more people I talk to here in the Bay Area either got out of the game or have no intention of jumping in this artificially inflated and manipulated market until they see less volatile signs. It's sad, the real estate agents keep saying these are normal prices, buy now or be priced out forever, and anything else you can imagine a used car salesman saying, yet this time the majority isn't being sucked in. Only fools hear the same lies, under the same negative conditions and believe them. Maybe the majority of people learned their lesson? These homes are not worth 1,000,000 or more. You can put whatever price you want on anything, and sometimes a fool comes along, but maybe most sellers should give up on the fool stumbling their way.

My Santa Cruz agent told me I should be able to get a LOT more for my money soon. He said all the houses we looked at were priced at least 100K (or more) too high. While we were waiting in between viewings, I overheard him on the phone lamenting that he had purchased his home in 2007.

That's because he is part of the cult of the National Real Estate Association.

rufita11 says

My Santa Cruz agent told me I should be able to get a LOT more for my money soon. He said all the houses we looked at were priced at least 100K (or more) too high. While we were waiting in between viewings, I overheard him on the phone lamenting that he had purchased his home in 2007.

And he didn't default?

hrhjuliet says

People are getting wise.

I don't fully agree here. The inventory here is so super low that a few(top notch condition) listings have sold above asking price. The crappy one like the one listed by OP will languish on the market forever.

New Renter says

And he didn't default?

Not yet. But he wasn't wearing a suit like he did the 3 previous times I met him. He also offered to buy me breakfast, but I wouldn't let him--he has young kids and a mortgage :)

rufita11 says

New Renter says

And he didn't default?

Not yet. But he wasn't wearing a suit like he did the 3 previous times I met him. He also offered to buy me breakfast, but I wouldn't let him--he has young kids and a mortgage :)

Do him a favor and introduce him to the fine art of squatting.

mell says

P.S. Long 500 sh SRS @17.76 for lack of better options, you gotta be hedged with something during such an epic melt-up ;)

Ah yes indeed it's fun time!

mell says

P.S. Long 500 sh SRS @17.76 for lack of better options

Do you understand how UltraShort funds work? Do you trade frequently?

bubblesitter says

If this thing sells at the asking price to the penny, I'll quit this forum. LOL.

Unfortunately, it went pending above list price. I'll miss you.

E-man says

Unfortunately, it went pending above list price. I'll miss you.

Nice try. Still shows active. :)

bubblesitter says

Nice try. Still shows active. :)

The status will be changed in a day or two.

E-man says

The status will be changed in a day or two.

OK. We shall see if it sells @ the asking price.

E-man says

bubblesitter says

Nice try. Still shows active. :)

The status will be changed in a day or two.

wow, that is incredible for a frat house near SJSU.

SFace says

E-man says

bubblesitter says

Nice try. Still shows active. :)

The status will be changed in a day or two.

wow, that is incredible for a frat house near SJSU.

Not sure it would be a frat house. Too far from SJSU.

I was yanking bubblesitter's chains. I have been inside that building. The seller did a crappy job of rehabbing the building. Shoddy workmanship. Other than the travertine tile floor and some cheap stainless steel appliances, they used low grade materials almost everywhere inside the building. They did a horrific job of painting the inside as well as the outside of the building.

One unit has been vacant, and I know why. It will be a challenge renting out this unit. It appears that whoever is buying this building will have to drop another $200k to rehab this place and make it right. The foundation/basement appeared to be not seismically reinforced/upgraded. Therefore, there's a high probability that banks will not lend on this building.

With that said, they're looking for a sucker paying all cash for this building. I was sad after seeing the house. This gorgeous, 10-foot high ceiling on each floor, Victorian building was ruined by a tasteless woman flipper. Fortunately, money can fix its cosmetic, but it won't be cheap fixing it. This building will sit on the market for a while at that price.

E-man says

This building will sit on the market for a while at that price.

I knew it. I don't have to quit this forum. :)

E-man says

The foundation/basement appeared to be not seismically reinforced/upgraded. Therefore, there's a high probability that banks will not lend on this building.

That's what I was saying -- they didn't pull the permits or spend the time or money to do this job right.

E-man says

The seller did a crappy job of rehabbing the building. Shoddy workmanship.

For what they were quoting, of course they did a crappy job.

E-man says

This gorgeous, 10-foot high ceiling on each floor, Vitorian building was ruined by a tasteless woman flipper. Fortunately, money can fix its cosmetic, but it won't be cheap fixing it.

If you look at the sales record, it looks like she has owned it since the 90s, so not sure if she's just a flipper. As EBGuy and I discussed, the sales record is odd, but it seems like she's been using LLCs and straw men to hold it for that long, hoping that it'd eventually be a good investment after buying it cheap. She appears to spend at least a good percentage of her time in another state and is above retirement age, from a quick search.

If seller won’t sell it this spring to some foreign investor with money to burn - be stuck with it for another 5-10 years.

@controllio,

You're right. Looks like the owner has owned it for quite sometimes. It appeared that there were more than one owner initially. Maybe she bought others out. Who knows. I don't have time to go through all the Grant Deed to find out what's what.

@bubblesitter, it's pending. Maybe the listing agent wasn't bluffing with me and had it sold for over list price. Will find out when it closes. I know they would have buyers at $1.3M - $1.35M. It was so unfortunate that the rehabbing work was so shoddy on such a beautiful building.

"The subject property has had over $200,000 in recent upgrades. The renovation includes over $25,000 in full electrical upgrades, $10,000 for brand new refrigerators, microwaves and appropriate appliances for each unit, and over $165,000 in cabinetry, travertine flooring and granite counter-tops. The pitched composition shingle roof was re-done along with new landscaping and fresh exterior paint."

Lord have mercy. I just looked at the "165k" of cabinetry, flooring and granite upgrades.

I am not a flooring expert, but the granite is the literally the cheapest selection you can buy. Also the cabinets don't really match the rest of the house, which means they were also one of the cheapest offerings.

"Travertine" is the most catchiest of catch phrases available for flooring, and is literally a pain in the ass to take care of. However, it looks like mostly the type of "Travertine" that was used in this remodel is "Mock Travertine".

So, when you look at the "165k in cabinetry, travertine flooring and granite counter-tops". What it means is the "Flipper" was paid $125k in design and consultation fees, and the ohter $35k was spend on cheap materials and mexican labor.

E-man says

@bubblesitter, it's pending. Maybe the listing agent wasn't bluffing with me and had it sold for over list price. Will find out when it closes. I know they would have buyers at $1.3M - $1.35M. It was so unfortunate that the rehabbing work was so shoddy on such a beautiful building.

Oh great. Well, it"ll be interesting to see what it sells for. You have seen the place. Is it even worth it to get a meager cash flow?

This one was priced too cheap for some.
The another one (comparable) got price increased for cool $1,000,000.
Hey, Why not?

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/402-N-3rd-St-95112/home/1084920

bubblesitter says

Oh great. Well, it"ll be interesting to see what it sells for. You have seen the place. Is it even worth it to get a meager cash flow?

It's considered a trophy property. It's for an individual who needs a tax write-off with an appreciation/inflation hedge play more than a cashflow investment.

With money being so cheap right now, the investor can wait and have the tenants paying-off the building for him/her. If you're a high networth individual, you can borrow a 5/1 commercial loan at 2.875% interest rate right now.

I was going to post this earlier, but I forgot.

We should all get a pool going and buy this POS. We'd all move in and film our own reality show. Bears vs bulls. It would pay itself off in about 2 months.

REpro says

This one was priced too cheap for some.

The another one (comparable) got price increased for cool $1,000,000.

Hey, Why not?

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/402-N-3rd-St-95112/home/1084920

Why only a $1 million increase? I'd let AF chime in. :)

It's a bit unfortunate that we have to spend so much time and energy concerned with when is the right time to buy, sell, priced out for ever, generational lows, blah blah blah.........do you think this is time well spent?

Analyzer says

do you think this is time well spent?

Well, time spent is money spent or saved, whichever way you look at it. Imagine if I wasn't spending that time here I'd have bought in 2006.

bubblesitter says

Analyzer says

do you think this is time well spent?

Well, time spent is money spent or saved, whichever way you look at it. Imagine if I wasn't spending that time here I'd have bought in 2006.

The point is we all need a place to live in and it should not be this difficult.