patrick.net

Dan8267 says

Then why do you always vote for politicians who unquestioningly support corporate welfare and bailouts for big banks?

Well Obama and the dems are spearheading the TPP-the biggest free trade zone evah. It will allow corporations to supersede national laws and of course not a single banker went to jail-I think a few years ago Obozo was praising Goldman. Then of course there is the NSA.

I think many voted for Obozo and the dems because they were tired of the status quo. But what they got was not just more of the same-but turbocharged more of the same. if there is someone who seems a bit more true-I would vote for him/her irrespective of their positions on other issues-because this country is in deep trouble. But alas-do not see anyone-perhaps it is time for the American empire to go down. A nation found on the ideals of freedom, now throws more people in jail than any nation on earth-what else can you say.

bob2356 says

Welfare and GM bailout are small potatoes.

Not when it comes to buying votes.

bob2356 says

hell of a lot more votes were bought (and campaign contributors paid back) with obamacare (the health insurance increased profitablilty act) and medicare D (the pharmacucital increased profitability act) if you want to talk federal level.

No doubt, I'm not a R. Not to mention the Lawyers who are staunchly democrat. Anyway O came up with the billion dollar ante.

bob2356 says

Of course we all know those billions of dollars corporations are spending only represent free speech and don't have any affect on legislation whatsoever.

The same thing goes for unions. I don't see in your numbers how much it cost to give jobs away that pay twice what the free market. A number that surely dwarfs the 1.27 billion the R spent in your chart, the Ds are at 883 million are not nothing on this line item.

lostand confused says

Well Obama

Obama is a republican in everything but name.

Support Elizabeth Warren. She's visibly fighting the corporate take-over of America and the rest of the world.

Dan8267 says

Support Elizabeth Warren. She's visibly fighting the corporate take-over of America and the rest of the world.

So was Don Quixote.

indigenous says

Dan8267 says

Support Elizabeth Warren. She's visibly fighting the corporate take-over of America and the rest of the world.

So was Don Quixote.

Don Quixote is a fictional character. Warren is a U.S. senator.

Dan8267 says

Warren is a U.S. senator

Actually she is not that bad except that she is economically illiterate.

indigenous says

Dan8267 says

Warren is a U.S. senator

Actually she is not that bad except that she is economically illiterate.

ElizabethWarren
- Harvard Law School professor specializing in bankruptcy law
- Special Advisor for the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
- Author of
-- The Two-Income Trap: Why Middle-Class Mothers and Fathers Are Going Broke
-- The Fragile Middle Class: Americans in Debt
- U.S. Senator

indigenous
- some random Internet troll

Yeah, I'll go with Warren.

Dan8267 says

Yeah, I'll go with Warren.

You do that.

Warren is wrong with regards to her mantra regarding the war between income quintiles. As I have said many times the quintiles are not occupied by the same people for very long. Secondly she does not realize that the driver in a lower household income is simply divorce.

I might forgive her as she was indoctrinated at Harvard as was Obama (cronies?). But Harvard creates statists.

But your highly degreed Lizzy doesn't address these two common sense points.

I have a point which does not agree with yours but I do not argue for the sake of arguing.

The fact that conservatives are so scared of her is enough to give immense credence to Warren. I've never seen a more visceral reaction from the right to the mere possibility of a person gaining political power. Now that's fear.

Here's what a conservative looks like when he imagines Warren as president.

She's coming. She's coming to get you.

I put you in a two day tailspin twisting in the wind...and this is the best you can come up with?
Still your turn. Try again.

sbh says

SoftShell says

get back to me when you have insults of substance.

C'mon, Limpy, give us some credit.

with you in a tailspin? YES!
sbh says

Counting the days, hmmmm?

Eject the LongJohn from your lips and with a little luck your vowels may self-correct.
sbh says

Oh somebody's got his wittle knickews in a twist.

No. I plan on telling Everybody here.

sbh says

you can tell yourself you put me in two week "tailspin"

I know...you can have her back now...I'm tired.
sbh says

But your balls are still in momma's

indigenous says

The same thing goes for unions. I don't see in your numbers how much it cost to give jobs away that pay twice what the free market. A number that surely dwarfs the 1.27 billion the R spent in your chart, the Ds are at 883 million are not nothing on this line item.

You need to look at the rest of the charts, especially the labor vs corporations campaign contributions.

I don't understand the union thing. Only something like 6% of private workers are union. People in public unions aren't being turned into D's because they got a public job that has a union. People working in public jobs were vast majority D's before they worked for the government, look at the demographics.

Dan8267 says

Here's what a conservative looks like when he imagines Warren as president.

That is nothing we have seen Obama terrorize the country with it's very extinction. You are flattering yourself...

bob2356 says

People in public unions aren't being turned into D's because they got a public job that has a union. People working in public jobs were vast majority D's before they worked for the government, look at the demographics.

In my experience they are democrats because they like the fact that the government takes care of them, yes they are co-opted by the benefits, especially when you add in the irrational group think to the mix.

indigenous says

bob2356 says

People in public unions aren't being turned into D's because they got a public job that has a union. People working in public jobs were vast majority D's before they worked for the government, look at the demographics.

In my experience they are democrats because they like the fact that the government takes care of them, yes they are co-opted by the benefits, especially when you add in the irrational group think to the mix.

So how does that amount to unions buying votes? Which was your original point. Just about all of the people who like the fact that government takes care of them weren't ever going to vote R to start with. Who did public employees unions influence to change their vote?

The holy trinity of 1 percenters, low teeth to tattoo ratio white trash, and neocon wanna be fascists aren't ever voting D. The union carders, ivory tower elitists, and low income government dependants aren't ever voting R.

So any voter influence other than disenfranchising voters like requiring voter id or playing games, purging voter roles or playing games with polling stations has to happen in the middle ground with people who don't have any strong preference. This can either by expensive programs like medicare D aimed at republican voting seniors and obamacare aimed at middle to lower class family democratic voters OR by throwing massive amounts of money, especially the unregulated money, at carpet bombing advertising.

This is where huge amounts of corporate money is actually influencing elections. Go back to the charts (scroll down and find the right chart) and look at the 17 to 1 ratio of corporate spending to labor spending. No one can tell me this isn't swinging middle of the road voters to vote republican who would have voted democrat if not for being bombarded by deceptive ads. Yes I know all politcal ads d or r are deceptive. But throw enough volume of ads out there and you can influence people.

I don't know about you, but I find it very hard to believe the 1% (actually .1%) and the corporations are spending billions to get people elected because they see it as their selfless civic duty out of concern for their fellow citizens. I could be wrong.

bob2356 says

So how does that amount to unions buying votes?

by co opting them.

bob2356 says

Who did public employees unions influence to change their vote?

Same thing

bob2356 says

This is where huge amounts of corporate money is actually influencing elections.

It seems to me that the MO for Rs is to spend the money on K street.

bob2356 says

I don't know about you, but I find it very hard to believe the 1% (actually .1%) and the corporations are spending billions to get people elected because they see it as their selfless civic duty out of concern for their fellow citizens. I could be wrong.

Some do, I think the Koch brothers do.

Fuck if I know...if your old man would only come home more than one night a week, maybe she'd lighten up...
sbh says

Why am I so quick to admit to my momma's a bitch?

I'm sorry, my bad. ....well....maybe not that sorry.

sbh says

Up in Fredericksburg, while I was trying to get it up, I saw my toothless pappy being totally owned by a baglady. For a moment I thought I was in Abilene's shithole but then realized I missed and was actually peering into her grilled cheese sandwich. Must've been extra stress from when you left me twisting in the wind the past couple days.

bob2356 says

The holy trinity of 1 percenters, low teeth to tattoo ratio white trash, and
neocon wanna be fascists aren't ever voting D. The union carders, ivory tower
elitists, and low income government dependants aren't ever voting R.

Correct. I would also add to this that a libertarian who hates "both sides" most likely believes that reps are not conservative enough but still considers them lesser of 2 evils (and hence will vote for a rep) while a progressive leftist believes that democrats are still "corporatists" but will vote for them anyway since they consider them to be lesser of 2 evils vs reps.

indigenous says

bob2356 says

So how does that amount to unions buying votes?

by co opting them.

bob2356 says

Who did public employees unions influence to change their vote?

Same thing

You aren't making any sense. The vast majority of people who would be bureacratice government drones would have voted D anyway. How the hell do you co opt anyone into doing something they would have done anyway.

indigenous says

Some do, I think the Koch brothers do.

Pray tell. I'd like to know how you come up with that opinion when so much of their policital funding activity is totally secret and unaccounted for. No one except the Koch brothers knows who they fund and why.

bob2356 says

You aren't making any sense. The vast majority of people who would be bureacratice government drones would have voted D anyway. How the hell do you co opt anyone into doing something they would have done anyway.

It has to continue to be created or bought especially with people who are easily bought...

bob2356 says

Pray tell. I'd like to know how you come up with that opinion when so much of their policital funding activity is totally secret and unaccounted for. No one except the Koch brothers knows who they fund and why.

I have heard they fund the Cato institute and others:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_activities_of_the_Koch_brothers#Educational_grants

At their level they all are quite philanthropic.

indigenous says

It has to continue to be created or bought especially with people who are easily bought..

You've been taking logic and grammar lessons from the captain I see.

indigenous says

I have heard they fund the Cato institute and others:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_activities_of_the_Koch_brothers#Educational_grants

At their level they all are quite philanthropic.

What does their public philanthropic donations have to do with their private and very secretive political donations? I don't have a problem with them funding their political agenda. It's certainly their right under the insane US election laws that allow pretty much unlimited spending.. I have a big problem with their being able to fund their agenda in secret. Soros funds a ton of money to the left. But it's all accounted for and in the public eye.

zzyzzx says

Poor white trash and rednecks have been voting republican for 50 years and they are still poor.

If the Koch Brothers were in Russia, they'd be called "Oligarchs".

bob2356 says

You've been taking logic and grammar lessons from the captain I see.

How so?

bob2356 says

Soros funds a ton of money to the left. But it's all accounted for and in the public eye.

Soros profits off of shorting currency at the expense of the US, Britain, and the Philippines to the tune of billions. But he is ok because it is transparent? If that is what he does in public what is he doing in secret, you don't think a guy like that is clean do you?

That link showed quite a bit, what is secret?