patrick.net

The changing pattern of Rape in America:

1950

Man just out of prison, in heat, pulls woman off the side of the sidewalk in late afternoon. Pulls her against wall, enters her, and orgasms. About 10 seconds. She gets pregnant, doesn't think about it and he later is killed or goes to prison. Later on that child grows up to be President of a Fortune 500 company because of his shameful beginnings.

1970

A twisted 19 year old, who is impotent, posts pictures of Farah Fawcett on his walls. Bitter at his situation, and angry at his carping divorced Mom, he goes off into the streets with a penknife. He finds a young swinging single woman living alone and enters her apartment. He rapes not out of pleasure but of violence. Later the woman is encouraged to come out in front of a court and go on TV to tell the world about it and remove the shame.

2014:

A college coed dressed up in her 6 inch candies, plaid micro skit and tube top because it's "80s Night" at the bar. Before going she tells her boyfriend she's studying but she confides in her friends she's really out to find a hot guy with a cool car. At the bar, she has half a Cosmopolitan, and tired from schoolwork, becomes flirty with a young physics grad student who works out. They exchange Facebook data and, like most nights, he goes home alone at 10pm to play some XBox with online friends.

Suddenly at 2am there is a loud scratching at the door. She has stumbled from the bar to his dorm room. He lets her in and she, no longer drunk from the long walk, pushes him onto the bed. After 90 minutes of oral, anal, vaginal sex, she gets up, dresses. As she starts to open the door, he asks her, "do you want a cab?" And she says "no".

3 weeks later, she is having coffee with her boyfriend, and he asks if she's had sex with another guy. She starts to cry and say, "this weird guy raped me". Later on the grad student is convicted of 1st degree Battery and put in jail for 25 years because she said "no".

rooemoore says

If a woman kisses you - that means yes.

No, it doesn't. If a man was accused of rape and his defense included the statement "If a woman kisses you - that means yes." he would probably be assumed guilty automatically, and spend life in prison just for saying that, no matter whether he was even guilty or not.

You can't be serious.

John Bailo says

She starts to cry and say, "this weird guy raped me". Later on the grad student is convicted of 1st degree Battery and put in jail for 25 years because she said "no".

Yep, and then are those who criticize me, for wanting to see hoes up in Canada than in wasting time, dating around here.

turtledove says

Unfortunately, there are plenty of young women who use the system to get back at a guy who doesn't want to commit, for example. They aren't scarred or particularly humiliated, so they have no problem telling a sordid story just to get even. In fact, they like the attention it gets them.

Indeed, and the problem is that there are many more of these false accusation cases than there are actual sexual assaults. Read the FACTS of some of the "deemed a good case" cases from Stanford or Berkeley, and you will see that even these cases are NOT good cases, and in some instances look downright suspect.

I'd be in favor of this type of thing, IF AND ONLY IF it includes the parity of seriously prosecuting those who make false rape or molestation cases.

This specific law, though, goes against the actual behavior of women who actually HAVE consented, and would be a bit of a mood kill. I mean, as an idealistic 20-something, I remember asking dates what seemed like the "right" questions along these lines, only to be LOL-ed at and instantly friendzoned.

sbh says

Nope, not even when middle-aged. No way. God, guys can be so dumb. Kissing is just part of a large matrix of behavior from which a guy has to glean the gal's intent.

I disagree, but maybe you're kidding.

Older women are hornier for one thing, and far less fickle for another. If a middle aged woman is kissing you back passionately, she is definitely dtf (down to fuck). Really, I'd say anytime well in to adulthood this is pretty much the case. But at 16, 18 or 20 ? That is a different time and a different game, when some women feel there is something to lose there, and they are far more circumspect about it. And if they are really hot, then they learn that there are some complicated reasons for not getting involved with guys at the drop of a hat. For example the fact that the guy might not be able to handle it, without wanting too much more.

marcus says

No. Because if true, then in your youth you never kissed a girl who would not have sex with you that same day.

justme says

If a woman kisses you - that means yes.

No, it doesn't. If a man was accused of rape and his defense included the statement "If a woman kisses you - that means yes."

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.

What I mean when I say a kiss means yes, is that we may proceed to the next step. Then I moved on to taking off clothes - another yes in the progression towards intercourse.

I did not mean to imply that simply a kiss meant "lets fuck!"

Listen fellas, this is not rocket science -- but then again maybe for some of you it is. Verbal and non-verbal clues that someone wants to have sex with you are pretty obvious.

This law, rather clumsily I'd have to say, is trying to move beyond the "no means no" standard that was easy to defend when the victim was, for example, incapacitated and therefore could not say no.

Finally, the number of woman who are sexually assaulted and never get justice is probably about a thousand times the number of men who are falsely accused.

Since it has become clear that few here actually know what the law says:
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB967

Here's a good read on why the law is poorly written:
http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/03/california-seeks-to-redefine-consensual-campus-sex-as-rape/

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

I can't get out of a taxi without women screaming CUM IN ME! IN THE NAME OF GOD!

Is this the same as 'yes'?

What's your secret?

rooemoore says

Finally, the number of woman who are sexually assaulted and never get justice is probably about a thousand times the number of men who are falsely accused.

You have got your facts very backwards. Go and read http://www.cotwa.info/ for a seemingly endless stream of well-documented cases of men being falsely accused and later exonerated. False accusation has reached epidemic levels, and is much more prevalent than rape itself is.

Come back when you are ready.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

I can't get out of a taxi without women screaming CUM IN ME! IN THE NAME OF GOD!

Is this the same as 'yes'?

They're either setting you up for a lawsuit, or they are a priest in drag.

lostand confused says

These kind of stupid laws by feminists is what makes even something as disgusting as rape highly suspicious. So a woman didn't say yes, was silent, smiled, enjoyed it and wanted more-technically it is still rape?

Remember that guy who was almost lynched for uttering words "legitimate rape"? I bet this is what he was trying to say.

Rin says

Now, WTF was that? The last time a woman offered to snuggle up with me, overnight sharing the same bed, it was ---CLEAR---, what she really wanted me to do to her. It wasn't to play a teddy bear.

Esc*rts are different matter altogether.

Now if you WANT to play teddy bear, well that's up to you:

http://www.askmen.com/dating/dzimmer_700/739_furries-and-sex.html

John Bailo says

becomes flirty with a young physics grad student who works out.

You had me up to this point. Unless of course the physics grad student lies and says he's in med school.

John Bailo says

Later on the grad student is convicted of 1st degree Battery and put in jail for 25 years because she said "no".

Beat's 25 years of post-docs!

justme says

rooemoore says

Finally, the number of woman who are sexually assaulted and never get justice is probably about a thousand times the number of men who are falsely accused.

You have got your facts very backwards. Go and read http://www.cotwa.info/ for a seemingly endless stream of well-documented cases of men being falsely accused and later exonerated. False accusation has reached epidemic levels, and is much more prevalent than rape itself is.

Come back when you are ready.

You are correct. The number is more like a 100 times - not a 1000 times. According to the U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS)--there is an average of 237,868 victims (age 12 or older) of rape and sexual assault each year.
Of those 60% are never reported. That's 142721.

This means that 95147 victims report the crime. Of those 2% are false claims. That's 1902 wrongfully accused vs 200k+ victims. Some say the number of false accusations is to or 3 times that number. Even going with those more biased numbers the ratios are overwhelming. The thing is that accusing someone falsely of a crime is in fact a crime and the type of person that does this is statistically predictable(and small)

So you were right that I was over-stating the ratio. My point was that from the victims point of view they are still getting screwed by the system. Couldn't we agree that it would be a good idea to catch more real rapists and also treat false accusers as criminals too?

rooemoore says

Couldn't we agree that it would be a good idea to catch more real rapists and also treat false accusers as criminals too?

Well what would you define as rape?? When you don't have a certified, notarized letter for every stage of the sexual act-this pretty much calls it rape. That is not a victim.

Then drugs and alcohol-the line should be if someone forcibly drugged you like those date rape drugs-yes. but if you get drunk and have sex and regret it the next day-is that your poor judgement or a sexual crime??? Allt his causes is to look at every rape horror story and wonder if the victim is a liar

New Renter says

Rin says

Now, WTF was that? The last time a woman offered to snuggle up with me, overnight sharing the same bed, it was ---CLEAR---, what she really wanted me to do to her. It wasn't to play a teddy bear.

Esc*rts are different matter altogether.

This was before my esc*rting days ... when I was more careless, dumb, young, and full of c*m.

Today, no more relationships.

Rin says

Today, no more relationships.

That's OK, you don't need to be in a relationship to explore your furry side. Just an esc*rt who specializes.

lostand confused says

rooemoore says

Couldn't we agree that it would be a good idea to catch more real rapists and also treat false accusers as criminals too?

Well what would you define as rape?? When you don't have a certified, notarized letter for every stage of the sexual act-this pretty much calls it rape. That is not a victim.

Then drugs and alcohol-the line should be if someone forcibly drugged you like those date rape drugs-yes. but if you get drunk and have sex and regret it the next day-is that your poor judgement or a sexual crime??? Allt his causes is to look at every rape horror story and wonder if the victim is a liar

No matter how you honestly slice the numbers the victims of sexual assault that never get justice greatly out number falsely accused.
Like I said earlier, the law is poorly written and probably wont accomplish what it hopes to accomplish. But it wont lead to more false accusations either. You're over-reacting. If this were a law that was trying to increase the conviction rate of inner-city armed robberies you'd probably be all for it -- false accusations be damned!

rooemoore says

But it wont lead to more false accusations either. You're over-reacting. If this were a law that was trying to increase the conviction rate of inner-city armed robberies you'd probably be all for it -- false accusations be damned!

No it is you who are over reacting and being very defensive. Why would I support a law that was trying to increase conviction rate of inner-city robberies?

It looks like you are bothered by the conviction rate, rather than the crime itself?? How is it rape, when woman did not say no? How does one measure how drunk a woman is?? This is garbage and another law that wants to portray women as meek, helpless wallflowers with no responsibility. All the equality, but none of the responsibility. So what is next a drunk woman is no longer responsible if she takes a car and causes an accident-after all it was the pedestrians fault for getting in her way.

lostand confused says

How is it rape, when woman did not say no?

You've read the law, right? Where does it say "woman"?

lostand confused says

It looks like you are bothered by the conviction rate, rather than the crime itself?? How is it rape, when woman did not say no? How does one measure how drunk a woman is?? This is garbage and another law that wants to portray women as meek, helpless wallflowers with no responsibility. All the equality, but none of the responsibility. So what is next a drunk woman is no longer responsible if she takes a car and causes an accident-after all it was the pedestrians fault for getting in her way.

Wow. This is a tough one.
What if they are both drunk. How do we know who raped who?

rooemoore says

lostand confused says

How is it rape, when woman did not say no?

You've read the law, right? Where does it say "woman"?

if you read one of my first posts in this thread, that is what I asked. if a woman gives a blowjob to a guy who never said no or yes-then technically she raped him?? because he never said yes. however feminazi inspired laws are never applied to men in equal measure. how many women have been arrested because they had sex with a drunk man who was too drunk to say no. I myself in my younger days have woken up with an ugly wrench on occasion after some hard partying. I thought it was my fault for being so dumb and irresponsible-never did I think I was raped???????? If I did, no court will go after her. but if the situation as reversed-there are quite a few men in jail for the same situation.

How many women have been arrested for this crime? How many women have been arrested for falsely claiming that somebody is the father and forcibly taking money from him. In fact in some states, courts have gone so far as to say that it is in the best interest of the child for the non-father to continue paying child support . What about his feelings at having his heart torn out and cheated in such a primal way??

Nope male feelings, emotions never matter. the last few decades have been about victimizing men in any way possible and women controlling every aspect of men.

The law itself is for women and you have given stats that support that and now you say where it says women-how many women have been arrested for raping men?? how many have been kicked out of college and had their lives ruined for raping men. if the same criteria were applied-plenty should be jailed as rapists-but how many are??

lostand confused says

The law itself is for women and you have given stats that support that and now you say where it says women-how many women have been arrested for raping men?? how many have been kicked out of college and had their lives ruined for raping men. if the same criteria were applied-plenty should be jailed as rapists-but how many are??

thunderlips11 says

"It was the evil mens who made me go to the party, drink to tipsyness, say 'hey everybody, look at me twerking', make out with the guy, offer the guy to come over my dorm room, and fall into his arms. So what came after that is all his fault, as well as every thing else! It was muh sojiny!"

You do realize that the number of woman falsely accusing people is about a hundred times smaller than the number being sexually assaulted? And yet you act like the really problem is the number that are falsely accused.

Pay her?

Rin says

Now, WTF was that? The last time a woman offered to snuggle up with me, overnight sharing the same bed, it was ---CLEAR---, what she really wanted me to do to her.

SoftShell says

Pay her?

New Renter says

Rin says

Now, WTF was that? The last time a woman offered to snuggle up with me, overnight sharing the same bed, it was ---CLEAR---, what she really wanted me to do to her. It wasn't to play a teddy bear.

Esc*rts are different matter altogether.

This was before my esc*rting days ... when I was more careless, dumb, young, and full of c*m.

New Renter and I, already had that conversation.

Long term this sounds like the death knell for patrick.net

dublin hillz says

The law will ensure that premarital sex will be discouraged which will reduce the number of abortions as well as stigmatized bastards in society

Rin says

This was before my esc*rting days ... when I was more careless, dumb, young, and full of c*m.

New Renter and I, already had that conversation.

Don't hesitate to count us in. We love porn.

Yeah, unfortunately that's how it is around these parts....

rooemoore says

You feel bad for me because I've kissed girls and had sex with them?

Good thing it's just white boys drugging women so they can rape them while they're unconscious.

For a minute I thought we were talking of serious crime, like stealing Cigarillos or walking in the street!

if the rape was intentional the guy would lie about it.

if it was not intentional then chances are he's a complete retard and wouldn't be aware of these laws anyways.

these are laws don't really protect anyone or prevent anything. all they do is give women more power over men.

90% of the frat sluts go there to get raped. they only file a report if they didn't enjoy it.

Attorneys are the biggest rapist out there. Most people aren't aware because they hide behind women clients.

rooemoore says

This law is really about getting state universities to be tougher on, for example, frat parties where drunk/drugged and semi-conscious or unconscious girls are fucked.

Clearly rape:
1. Drugging a person and then fucking him/her.
2. Having sex with a person who is unconscious.

Clearly not rape:
1. A woman chooses to get drunk, has sex, and later regrets it.

And yes, both young men and young women deliberately use alcohol to get laid. Young women also use alcohol for plausible deniability, saying they only did it because of the booze. They erroneously think this makes them look less slutty when it really just makes them look like a drunk.

In consensual sex, it's pretty damn obvious its consensual without a word being spoken. I'm pretty sure she wants to when she puts the condom on me with her mouth. That's usually a very good hint.

lostand confused says

Do women ever get prosecuted for false rape accusations?

Unfortunately, no. The punishment for false accusations of crimes should be the same as actual commission of those crimes. If the false accuser is a cop, then ten times the maximum punishment, because the cop used the power and authority of the state in the crime of false accusation.

rooemoore says

You do realize that the number of woman falsely accusing people is about a hundred times smaller than the number being sexually assaulted? And yet you act like the really problem is the number that are falsely accused.

Actually, I don't respect that 2-8% number, because false accusers seldom face charges and they're all ass-pull guesstimates. The definition for false was overly strict, according to that very report:

The determination that a report is false can then only be made when there is sufficient evidence to establish that the sexual assault did not happen (was not completed or attempted.) This does not mean that the investigation failed to prove that the sexual assault happened–in that case the investigation would simply be inconclusive or unsubstantiated.

So in other words, that 2-8% was only when investigators had enough evidence that disproved the females' claims - could prove a negative, but not when there was doubt or insufficient evidence as to the claim.

Since there are seldom witnesses, video cameras, etc. of the alleged rape, there will seldom be sufficient evidence disproving the rape. Proving a negative based solely on he-said-she-said is difficult. So the numbers of false accusations are almost certainly higher.

thunderlips11 says

Proving a negative based solely on he-said-she-said is difficult. So the numbers of false accusations are almost certainly higher.

Your honor, I have not bo*nked in America, for years.

The law is being marketed as the "yes-means-yes" law. I think it really is a "yes-means-no, as you may find out later" law.

Governor Jerry Brown has signed SB 967 into law. Yes-means-No is now the law.

Expect a flood of civil rights lawsuits to commence in the next year.

http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Affirmed-consent-bill-signed-by-Brown-5787198.php

justme says

Governor Jerry Brown has signed SB 967 into law. Yes-means-no is now the law.

Expect a flood of civil rights lawsuits to commence in the next year.

http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Affirmed-consent-bill-signed-by-Brown-5787198.php

Otherwise known as the "Immense Hirsute Lesbian Law".

Now, there will be roving bands of lesbians on all campuses with amputated penises dangling from their belts and necklaces.

Chastity pledges, Bible Studies, and weemins keeping their knees together until there is a ring on their finger, means this will never a problem in court.

These laws are just nuts. So what's next, ugly woman demand equality and men who refuse to sleep with them be thrown in jail???

If you sleep with woman 1 and refuse to sleep with woman 2-can you be thrown in jail-I am pretty sure the hirsute ugly feminazis will demand this to be made into law .

Will it be a crime for wanting to sleep with her and not with number 2 below her??