patrick.net

smaulgld says

and battles of scientists trying to prove or disprove climate change

There aren't any. The debate is over.

Whew, how 'bout that cheap gas?

CaptainShuddup says

Whew, how 'bout that cheap gas?

For how long? Probably about six months and then it will whipsaw higher as they try to recoup their losses having inflicted a death blow to the shale oil industry

HydroCabron says

smaulgld says

and battles of scientists trying to prove or disprove climate change

There aren't any. The debate is over.

Yep the sun revolves around the earth its settled

smaulgld says

Yep the sun revolves around the earth its settled

It is a matter of perspective. Granted, as a planet, the sun never goes retrograde. Hmm, why is that?

smaulgld says

Got it sorry. Agree I don't think that is the prime motivation for the Saudi's lowering oil prices, I think its the second question- they want to kill shale

Absolutely. Fracking needs high priced oil to be economic.

thunderlips11 says

Absolutely. Fracking needs high priced oil to be economic.

Kills two birds with one stone- S.A. harms a competitor in shale and hits Russia/Syria too
After six months or so after many fracking companies go bust, they will raise the price again

You bet. Of course, ISIS in Syria is a two-benefit aim for Saudi Arabia: A friendly Taliban-esque Wahabi Government, AND clears the way for the Gulf-Turkey pipeline. Good position to attack Hizbollah in Lebanon and destroy the Shi'ites, Alawites, Christians, and other Heretic/Infidel scum.

The terror attacks in Grozny were no accident either. More Saudi Merican unholy alliance.

CaptainShuddup says

If gas spikes up after 100's of thousands of jobs have been added, then it kills those jobs.

high paying jobs will be lost in the energy sector -any short term boost from lower prices will fade as businesses won't be able to plan on the lower oil costs.
consumer spending may increase but again that will be temporary
Gaining spending while losing part of a productive energy industry is NOT a good thing

Shale extraction can only get cheaper, by virtue of technology. On the other hand, cheap oil in the Middle East can only be depleted. By then, the US shale reserve will prove to be extremely valuable.

Peter P says

Shale extraction can only get cheaper, by virtue of technology. On the other hand, cheap oil in the Middle East can only be depleted. By then, the US shale reserve will prove to be extremely valuable.

Good point but the losses in the interim need to be borne

smaulgld says

Peter P says

Shale extraction can only get cheaper, by virtue of technology. On the other hand, cheap oil in the Middle East can only be depleted. By then, the US shale reserve will prove to be extremely valuable.

Good point but the losses in the interim need to be borne

True.

Peter P says

True.

and if they stop production and lose workers how long before they can get started again?

Technological solutions almost always require additional inputs. Often rare materials or moar energy.

smaulgld says

Peter P says

True.

and if they stop production and lose workers how long before they can get started again?

Much faster than reviving a dead renewable energy program. Besides, the government can now stockpile a reserve at this low, low prices.

Peter P says

Much faster than reviving a dead renewable energy program. Besides, the government can now stockpile a reserve at this low, low prices.

They could stock pile IF they continue to produce, but they will curb production so there won't be much to stockpile

smaulgld says

They could stock pile IF they continue to produce, but they will curb production so there won't be much to stockpile

They can stockpile cheap imported oil.

Peter P says

They can stockpile cheap imported oil.

They can but that doesn't help the shale industry

BTW traffic is a BITCH again!

CaptainShuddup says

BTW traffic is a BITCH again!

This is why we should make all roads toll-roads.

Volume accounts for a lot. You guys are still silly, you do realize this is still the SAME industry that has boasted record Trillion dollar month over month sales, for the last 7 to 8 years?

OPEC and now the Tar sands can do a volume business. Production is a cheap traveling circus operation. It's developed already guys. Better fire up that "Peak Oil" fear mongering percolator, the "Woa's me Po' ole ME, I'm losin' my money! Oil is so LOW!" shit really isn't going to fly around these parts.

Peter P says

CaptainShuddup says

BTW traffic is a BITCH again!

This is why we should make all roads toll-roads.

Why those people are going somewhere to either make money or spend money, or quite possibly most are just out wasting money. But still it's honest money flowing on the highways for once. Instead of through the QE printing Quantifier.

Bless their non driving little hearts, I hate them all and they are all in my way. But it's good to see them back.

I'd prefer people to stay home and watch Netflix.

bgamall4 says

smaulgld says

Peter P says

What does that have anything to do with Russia?

Nothing to do with Russia

Everything to do with Russia. Do you think the elite care that we have a price break? No, the Neocon/Zionists want to break Russia. They want total world domination.

Yes it has something to do with Russia - see my comment above and the original post and audio
But it also has to do with some decline in demand but mostly an attack on shale oil competition

Saudi Arabia doesn't care if oil goes to $40! Will keep out put the same no matter what for at least three more months!

“We are not going to change our minds because the prices went to $60 or to $40,”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-14/u-a-e-says-opec-won-t-change-output-even-if-price-drops-to-40.html

Bubbabear says

The “real” economy and drive will be if led along by the crude price and let it settle by itself. That is true supply and demand!

It won't last because OPEC will slam the breaks on production as soon as they have achieved the result they want and prices will snap back fast-but not for a while

It is just the business cycle and what will turn out to be malinvestment.

Without the Yellin put or Abenomics I would say it might expose the charade but with I doubt it.

I mean will the stock market ever correct?

indigenous says

It is just the business cycle and what will turn out to be malinvestment.

Yes and physical malinvestments (oil/real estate) are the first to go bust as they cant be propped up as easily like paper assets (stocks)

But its more than a cycle, its intention dumping of excess production by Saudi Arabia

smaulgld says

Yes and physical malinvestments (oil/real estate) are the first to go bust as they cant be propped up as easily like paper assets (stocks)

Good point

smaulgld says

But its more than a cycle, its intention dumping of excess production by Saudi Arabia

Which will make it less malleable in the future?

Technology produces a black swan who knows what technology there will be in the future maybe oil will become irrelevant.

Bubbabear says

Crude Crash Set To Continue After Arab Emirates Hint $40 Oil Coming Next!!!

Will CNN report the Arab Spring celebration of the return of normal?
They reported the hungry mobs as protestors looking for democracy, I wonder what they will call a ticker tape parade?

indigenous says

Technology produces a black swan who knows what technology there will be in the future maybe oil will become irrelevant.

as is always the case with technology but powerful entrenched interests can stave off better technology longer than the Fed can sustain bubbles

Bubbabear says

smaulgld says

It won't last because OPEC will slam the breaks on production as soon as they have achieved the result they want and prices will snap back fast-but not for a while

Crude Crash Set To Continue After Arab Emirates Hint $40 Oil Coming Next!!!

http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/business/oil-40-possible-market-transforms-caracas-tehran/

Yep my point isn't that oil will snap back any time soon- it will snap back after the Saudis achieve their objective and that wont be for a while and after prices are even lower

http://shalebubble.org/

bgamall4 says

smaulgld says

but mostly an attack on shale oil competition

Not sure about that. The US obviously believes that Russia will be weakened and we have had people calling for the bailout of the shale industry, already.

made that point too in the post and audio-Russia is a target and the potential of a shale oil bailout

bgamall4 says

Half the CME trades may be fake, according to a lawsuit pending. So the drop in prices is likely done by the financial sector as well.

Agree that financial sector can manip up or down but this is clearly a flooding of supply driving the price down

bgamall4 says

smaulgld says

bgamall4 says

Half the CME trades may be fake, according to a lawsuit pending. So the drop in prices is likely done by the financial sector as well.

Agree that financial sector can manip up or down but this is clearly a flooding of supply driving the price down

But supply has been flooded for years.

to your point
"arguing market weakness did not reflect supply and demand fundamentals and could have been driven by speculators."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/14/us-opec-oil-badri-idUSKBN0JS06F20141214

AND this telling quote:

head of OPEC said on Sunday the group had no target price for oil, and production, saying the United States would continue to rely on Middle East crude for many years.

Why is there not more use of natural gas? I mean I read where the US is the Saudis of NG.

bgamall4 says

Again, the cabal wants the US wedded to the middle east.

You give them a lot of credit?

indigenous says

Why is there not more use of natural gas? I mean I read where the US is the Saudis of NG.

Natural gas requires pipelines and its expensive to transport via ship