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When did the Democrats get petty and retarded?
You confuse intelligent people with democrats.
While it's true that democrats are often more intelligent than republicans, it's a mistake to assume every argument an intelligent person engages in, must necessarily be about some democrat or liberal agenda.
It's just an intelligent person in an argument that isn't about politics.
It is an understandable mistake. This is why republicans are constantly whining about the liberal dominance of colleges and universities. There are a lot of smart professors at colleges, and yes, they happen to often be liberals.
Ooooooow it's a conspiracy !
Otherwise there would be nothing.
So, you're saying there can't be an "even more" Prime Mover behind the Prime Mover because then there would be no beginning, and if there is no beginning, there would be nothing.
Where did the Prime Mover live, then, before the (mega-)universe? What are his characteristics, if there was, at some point, nothing?
Like I said earlier, something with no defining characteristics is not "self-actualized", unless Self-Actualized means "nothing".
Of interest:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/something-from-nothing-vacuum-can-yield-flashes-of-light/
So, you're saying there can't be an "even more" Prime Mover behind the Prime Mover because then there would be no beginning, and if there is no beginning, there would be nothing.
I guess so, but remember that there is only one prime mover, an entity that if fully actualized would be indistinguishable therefore only one. But in physical universe terms yes he would be nothing and there would be no physical universe.
Where did the Prime Mover live, then, before the (mega-)universe? What are his characteristics, if there was, at some point, nothing?
Yes nothing. Again you cannot think of this in physical universe terms.
Like I said earlier, something with no defining characteristics is not "self-actualized", unless Self-Actualized means "nothing".
I don't disagree. Except this nothing has abilities such as being able to create by decision and thus animate things, aka life. If you remove it from the physical universe you have no life.
I guess so, but remember that there is only one prime mover
I remember you saying that, but I don't think you've made a case as to why there needs to be a prime mover and why there has to be a set beginning.
If something exists out of time and space, how and when does it decide to create something?
But in physical universe terms yes he would be nothing and there would be no physical universe.
What's a non-physical universe?
I don't disagree. Except this nothing has abilities such as being able to create by decision and thus animate things, aka life. If you remove it from the physical universe you have no life.
There may very well be something in the physical universe that may be able to create something from nothing: Virtual Particles.
Admittedly some of us have descended further than others, some people are a joy to be around, some not so much...
And on que...
I guess so, but remember that there is only one prime mover
Why?
This is covered in the Thomisms, Aquinas talks about if an entity is fully actualized it is undistinguishable. For there to be more than one of something it has to be distinguishable. This is for the purposes of comparison.
What's a non-physical universe?
Nothing
There may very well be something in the physical universe that may be able to create something from nothing: Virtual Particles.
Nope
these are damning one-worders...
What's a non-physical universe?
Nothing
There may very well be something in the physical universe that may be able to create something from nothing: Virtual Particles.
Nope
This is covered in the Thomisms, Aquinas talks about if an entity is fully actualized it is undistinguishable. For there to be more than one of something it has to be distinguishable. This is for the purposes of comparison.
Undistinguishable things don't exist by definition, so if this is what Aquinas is saying, that fully actualized entities have no distinguishable characteristics, then fully actualized entities don't exist at all. Not one, but none.
What's a non-physical universe?
Nothing
And therefore non-physical universes do not exist...
There may very well be something in the physical universe that may be able to create something from nothing: Virtual Particles.
Nope
Could you amplify that?
Undistinguishable things don't exist by definition, so if this is what Aquinas is saying, then fully actualized entities don't exist at all. Not one, but none.
Not by physical universe terms.
And therefore non-physical universes do not exist...
A universe that does not contain things. You might say your world is your universe and you decide things and thus create things. But if you take away all of your things you would still remain. Are you nothing or do you have the ability to create? Do you exist?
Could you amplify that?
Again the prime mover and Aristotle's idea that what is moved is moved by something outside of the thing that is moved. This is not infinitely regressive.
Not by physical universe terms.
Absolutely by physical universe terms. Nothing is the only thing without distinguishing characteristics in a physical universe.
A universe that does not contain things. You might say your world is your universe and you decide things and thus create things. But if you take away all of your things you would still remain. Are you nothing or do you have the ability to create? Do you exist?
For example...
(This sounds like you want to say "Ideal Forms Exist" at this point)
Again the prime mover and Aristotle's idea that what is moved is moved by something outside of the thing that is moved. This is not infinitely regressive.
Why Not? And you'll say because there is no beginning, and I'll say how did something exist before the beginning... or ask you to prove there was an ultimate beginning (outside of the whole mega-verse)...
You see we're going in circles here.
Absolutely by physical universe terms. Nothing is the only thing without distinguishing characteristics in a physical universe.
Yup
For example...
(This sounds like you want to say "Ideal Forms Exist" at this point)
Nope
Why Not? And you'll say because there is no beginning, and I'll say how did something exist before the beginning... or ask you to prove there was an ultimate beginning (outside of the whole mega-verse)...
You see we're going in circles here.
Yup, you have to let go of thinking about this in physical universe terms. Not to be confused with faith or any religion.
It's pretty obvious it went like this:
Indigenous visits some Austrian site.
Woods Junior presents some philosophical babble about Thomism and First Causes that Indigenous doesn't understand, but which is used to butress Austrianism, perhaps through an intermediary step of justifying a prior logic as the sole basis for economic understanding.
Indigenous mentions it here.
Indigenous visits some Austrian site.
Woods Junior presents some philosophical babble about Thomism and First Causes that Indigenous doesn't understand, but which is used to butress Austrianism, perhaps through an intermediary step of justifying a prior logic as the sole basis for economic understanding.
Indigenous mentions it here.
almost, I listened to this podcast:
http://tomwoods.com/podcast/ep-272-am-i-a-dummy-for-believing-in-god/
Why don't you listen to it and splain me what I got wrong?
And you mutts simply say: Aristotle an Aquinas are wrong because it "scientifically proven to be wrong"
I stated that I'm not talking about physics at all.
Summa Theologica, it is based on the idea from Aristotle the unmoved mover. It states that all things are moved by a mover and that the mover is exterior to the moved in other words a primary cause moves the moved (potentiality) towards a destination (actuality).
You cannot regress this infinitely. There must be a primary mover. This primary mover is God.
If this isn't an attempt to explain the world around us, what is it?
almost, I listened to this podcast:
http://tomwoods.com/podcast/ep-272-am-i-a-dummy-for-believing-in-god/
Why don't you listen to it and splain me what I got wrong?
You mean, what Woods got wrong?
Here's a fun von Mises rant, including attacks on the other main Whipping Boy besides Zionism, the Jesuit Order.
https://mises.org/library/decline-scholasticism
Austrianism is really in league with Medieval Revisionism, which is a pet project of traditionalist assholes who befuddle the public with their high-sounding scholastic verbiage.
You mean, what Woods got wrong?
He is a Harvard grad with a PhD from Columbia. But you are somehow smarter?
Ok so you have lowered the debate to ad hominem, debate is over you are out of ammo...
Here I take the trouble to learn you something...
Aristotle lived in the fourth century B.C.E. That's 2400 years ago!
He was a smart guy in a highly ignorant time. He got a lot of things right and made some good contributions to mankind's knowledge. He also got a lot of things wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/lI47KuwaxTQ
Nonetheless, expecting anyone who lived in the fourth century B.C.E. to have any insights on the universe comparable to what a typical grad student in the 21st century is expect to have would be incredibly stupid. Mankind's knowledge has increased exponentially over the past few centuries that you cannot even meaningfully compare Aristotle's works to modern works. The only point in studying Aristotle -- and it's a good point -- is to understand history, not science or mathematics.
Now, I for one, believe that the history of mathematics and knowledge -- Aristotle wasn't a scientist, they didn't exist yet -- is highly underrated. However, idiots like indigenous have been appealing to authority through Aristotle for over 2000 years for the sole effect of slowing down progress and understanding. Because of this, the world may well have been better without Aristotle because of all the fools that came after him and used his incorrect ideas to hold back the world.
I'm not your nanny, if you can't understand it find someone who can explain it to you.
Translation: Shit, caught with my pants down again. Can't support my argument. Maybe I can convince people that if they don't accept my argument, it's because they are too stupid or lazy to find the evidence themselves. Yeah, that will work.
Translation
You mutts can't undstand what I'm saying so do what you always do, which is resort to ad hominem.
Translation
You mutts can't undstand what I'm saying so do what you always do, which is resort to ad hominem.
An ad hominem would be something like "indigenous is a racist moron". What I did was explicitly said what you were wrongfully implying. A real man would have taken it as a challenge to defend his position with evidence.
You mutts can't undstand what I'm saying so do what you always do, which is resort to ad hominem.
So which of us are booze-drenched alkies, pounding back Thunderbird and Night Train on urine soaked Barcaloungers, drunk off our asses?
He is a Harvard grad with a PhD from Columbia. But you are somehow smarter?
Argument from Authority.
Stanton Friedman has a Master's in Nuclear Physics from the University of Chicago, but that doesn't mean I accept his UFO claims just because he said so.
Ok so you have lowered the debate to ad hominem, debate is over you are out of ammo...
What ad hom? That you cribbed shit from Austrian evangelists? You admitted I was on the right track.
Here I take the trouble to learn you something...
If you want to use an argument, at least have a passing understanding of it first. You certainly should understand it yourself if you're going to school somebody else.
If you want to use an argument, at least have a passing understanding of it first. You certainly should understand it yourself if you're going to school somebody else.
I understand it quite well, you on the other hand don't have a clue
A real man would have taken it as a challenge to defend his position with evidence.
And that is not ad hominem? Not one of you mutts have said anything but AH...
And that is not ad hominem?
No, it's an attempt to shame you into actually defending your position.
No, it's an attempt to shame you into actually defending your position.
Give me a fucking break, I defended it umpteen times.
No, it's an attempt to shame you into actually defending your position.
Give me a fucking break, I defended it umpteen times.
You're kidding right? Around in circles we went.
You're kidding right? Around in circles we went.
Fuck no, you mutts choose not to listen...
Another thing Aristotle claimed was that objects fall relative to their weight. Period.
That's a priori for you.
Another thing Aristotle claimed was that objects fall relative to their weight. Period.
That is by definition a posteriori, me thinks that Aristotle is not very good at this. Best stick with a priori. Again don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Have you listened to the podcast I linked? Obviously not. Some of you fellers is hard to learn stuff to.
Another thing Aristotle claimed was that objects fall relative to their weight.
If you don't believe that to be so. Then try standing on the street, while I drop a bowling ball and a grape from a 96 floor building on to your head. You take the bowling ball and I'll take the grape.
The bowling ball's pressure psi will be so great it will put your head where your ass is. The grape might put a welt on my noggin.
Newton was just a liberal, shittin' out of both sides of his ass!
Newton on the other hand was good at a posteriori and a priori as he invented calculus.
Science is a political, it deals with truth, which automatically nullifies any liberal input.
Newton on the other hand was good at a posteriori and a priori as he invented calculus.
Science is a political, it deals with truth, which automatically nullifies any liberal input.
Newton on the other hand was good at a posteriori and a priori as he invented calculus.
Science is a political, it deals with truth, which automatically nullifies any liberal input.
Yes I know the feeling...
When's that hyperinflation coming, oh Austrian Scientist?
As Doug Casey says: "Just because something is inevitable does not make it eminent."
The exact when is Darlag's arena.
From what I read from the Beaulieus at about 2030
I'm guessing because medicare will reach critical mass at that point, i.e. all the boomers will be 65 at that point.
The simple fact is you cannot debase the money in perpetuity without consequences. Once a country goes to fiat money it's days are numbered, even with hard money they debase as has occurred countless times throughout history. But this can take a long time In Spain for instance it took the politicians about 800 years to debase the Denar from 65 grains of gold to 1 1/2 grains of silver.
From what I read the US will probably fade, ala the UK, by the end of this century with the biggest depression in the history of the world in about 15 years.
BTW Austrians are a priori, which means not so much on the scientist crack.
BTW Austrians are a priori, which means not so much on the scientist crack.
Proof by Logic is vastly inferior to Proof by Scientific Method.
Want to guess what element is missing from the former?
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