patrick.net

Rin says

FYI, Camry is my next car. I currently drive an Accord.

That wasn't information that I had any interest in knowing strangely enough.

Rin says

On the other hand, there's no UTILITARIAN purpose in a $60K vehicle when a $20K vehicle does exactly the same thing minus the status symbol.

Remarkable. The capital letters make all the difference. You could say the exact same thing for just about anything people spend their money on. You know rather like how you could get yourself a steady girlfriend rather than paying for a hooker in a foreign country.... You never did say how much those trips cost...
And this isn't an either or issue, is it? A bloke who paid off $500k of his mortgage in 5 years and saved $400k in the process isn't exactly living hand to mouth. And last I checked, buying a mid-range BMW isn't really that much of a status symbol. You should know - don't you claim to be working in investment banking or some such? Would that count as a status symbol amongst your colleagues?

Rin says

I expense the hotel rooms and then, those gals are out of my life after a short while, no strings period. Yes, it's economical, versus playing "Keeping Up With the Jones", buying the Mrs jewelery, taking her out all of the time to nice restaurants, moving to the *right* school district, etc.

Or, you know, you could find yourself an educated and interesting woman to go out with who makes a similar salary to you...

And you still seem reticent to say how much you spend on these hookers...

Rin says

FYI, Camry is my next car. I currently drive an Accord.

I've known wealthy folks who drive corollas or accords for the same reason-image. They are very wealthy and could afford whatever car they want but they drive those to present a frugal, one of the guys image. Nevermind that they drink a bottle of wine that costs more than the average Joe's daily wages. Or own multiple houses in Hawaii.

I really don't understand your disdain for someone buying a nice car. At what point can one enjoy the fruits of their labor?

Bigsby says

You should know - don't you claim to be working in investment banking or some such? Would that count as a status symbol amongst your colleagues?

That's the point, I don't care about those douchebags.

I was once a STEM person and that's what I'm proud about. Working with idiot portfolio managers and tax consultants is not my calling, it's simply what I do, to retire from corporate America. And thus, I simply live humbly, avoid relationships, and bone hoes occasionally. And Quebec is a 5 hour drive from MA, not really another country, more like another state but French speaking.

Bigsby says

And you still seem reticent to say how much you spend on these hookers...

As an average, though I'd splurged once in a while, every 3 weeks, some $500, over the year about $8.5K.

tatupu70 says

I really don't understand your disdain for someone buying a nice car. At what point can one enjoy the fruits of their labor?

The thing is that a car is not an *experience*. I mean it's not like he's a street racer or something. If so, then yes, it's a part of a subculture of drivers.

For the average non-racer, wouldn't it be better to spend one's money on taking a class, travel, and/or doing something of interest. For me, that's the "fruit" of one's labor. A vehicle is just a mode of transportation.

Rin says

As an average, though I'd splurged once in a while, every 3 weeks, some $500, over the year about $8.5K.

You spend $8.5k a year (not counting all the other inevitable expenses, and the question mark about how you actually manage to claim your trips abroad to fuck hookers as a business expense) to have sex 17 times a year. Ha, ha, ha. You clearly are the person to advise someone on how best to spend their money.

Rin says

I was once a STEM person and that's what I'm proud about. Working with idiot portfolio managers and tax consultants is not my calling, it's simply what I do, to retire from corporate America. And thus, I simply live humbly, avoid relationships, and bone hoes occasionally. And Quebec is a 5 hour drive from MA, not really another country, more like another state but French speaking.

Ah, yes, I remember you saying that before. You clearly are an atypical investment banker if you think a BMW X5 is a status symbol. Or you aren't an investment banker.

Rin says

For the average non-racer, wouldn't it be better to spend one's money on taking a class, travel, and/or doing something of interest. For me, that's the "fruit" of one's labor.

Really? I thought it was going to Canada to fuck hookers.

Call it Crazy says

You

Evidently creativity is still a struggle for many people.

Your comment just demonstrated my point.

Easy, we have clients in Ontario/Quebec so as long as I make one call or one meeting, that hotel room is expensed, BFD. And really, how much does it cost to get a meal in Toronto, Ottawa, or Montreal? It's the same as my hometown.

And I'm not a typical banker because many of them work for the bulge bracket, I work for a New England based hedge fund which sells 'alpha', which is an actively traded dealbook to portfolio managers, etc, who can add it to their basket of products for institutional/corporate and individual investors. Since many of us are New Englanders, we stress our down-to-earthness and fiscal responsibly over *those* who work for the Street. I've taken it further than others, because I refuse to go for the Acura/Lexus/Infinity or Porsche/Ferrari thing like others who'd been getting the bonuses. They all think it's cute and quaint behavior, like I'm the small town boy in the world of trading, but so what. This isn't what I wanted to do with my life.

Bigsby says

Rin says

For the average non-racer, wouldn't it be better to spend one's money on taking a class, travel, and/or doing something of interest. For me, that's the "fruit" of one's labor.

Really? I thought it was going to Canada to fuck hookers.

That's between me and Strategist. This is my basic financial advice for those outside of the club. And yes, you're not invited.

Rin says

And really, how much does it cost to get a meal in Toronto, Ottawa, or Montreal?

I don't know, you tell me. Presumably, you go to the local 7-11 and pick up a few sandwiches. After all, you wouldn't want to frivolously waste money on restaurants. And anyway, shouldn't you be adding those to your expense account as well?

Rin says

That's between me and Strategist. This is my basic financial advice for those outside of the club. And yes, you're not invited.

Wow, a club of two. You and Strategist. Thank fuck I'm not invited.

Rin says

For the average non-racer, wouldn't it be better to spend one's money on taking a class, travel, and/or doing something of interest. For me, that's the "fruit" of one's labor. A vehicle is just a mode of transportation.

I get that you would prefer to spend your $$ on other activities. I don't get your need to push your values on someone else. You enjoy traveling. Maybe he enjoys taking a drive on the coast in a nice car. Doesn't mean you're right.

Bigsby says

And anyway, shouldn't you be adding those to your expense account as well?

I use the per diem because if I'm not actively "courting a client", I can't make that entertainment costs. Still, no one cares. As far as the firm is concerned, lodging and per diem are not a big deal, as it's expected that we'll usually be on the road, meeting up with customers.

Bigsby says

After all, you wouldn't want to frivolously waste money on restaurants

A restaurant is an experience and that's why I like 'em. When they cut the Prime Rib slice or when they talk about their specials and secret ingredients, that adds a spice to one's life. This is something you can't get at a Subway or a 7-11.

Which once again, shows me that you don't understand the difference between spending an extra $40K on a higher end car versus a night out at a Prime Rib steer house. That car will get old quickly and depreciate. The experience of driving a BMW will wane in a very short time.

That slice of Prime Rib (if it's good), will give you an experience and a memory that you'll want to experience again in the future. So far, I've had one every month and it's always been good. This is something that I enjoy.

Bigsby says

Thank fuck I'm not invited.

Since you're not my friend, you're welcome.

tatupu70 says

I get that you would prefer to spend your $$ on other activities. I don't get your need to push your values on someone else. You enjoy traveling. Maybe he enjoys taking a drive on the coast in a nice car. Doesn't mean you're right.

I work in finance and a lot of fellas spend their money on cars, so perhaps, this is a part of my disdain for that line of work.

Rin says

A restaurant is an experience and that's why I like 'em. When they cut the Prime Rib slice or when they talk about their specials and secret ingredients, that adds a spice to one's life. This is something you can't get at a Subway or a 7-11.

Which once again, shows me that you don't understand the difference between spending an extra $40K on a higher end car versus a night out at a Prime Rib steer house. That car will get old quickly and depreciate. The experience of driving a BMW will wane in a very short time.

You're comedy gold. You can go to a fine dining restaurant and blow through the better part of $1000 without much effort as a couple. Many people with money get great enjoyment from that, but that $1000 lasts for a few hours until the next visit to the toilet, so don't talk to me about how quickly the value of things depreciate. People can spend tens of thousands a year on good restaurants. Good for them if they can afford it and if that's what they enjoy (as I do). That quite clearly has absolutely zero to do with something holding value. It's about what someone wants to spend their money on. You spend $8.5k+ a year on hookers and are waffling on about someone spending $20-30k more than you would on a car. What sense does that make?

Alpo,

What to do depends on personality. I would choose 4. Reduce the housing loan as much as possible. Mortgage rate is higher than saving interest, so you're losing money for nothing. If still got money left, buy a replacement Honda Civic... new car has higher mileage, more comfortable and lower maintenance.

Bigsby says

You're comedy gold. You can go to a fine dining restaurant and blow through the better part of $1000 without much effort as a couple. Many people with money get great enjoyment from that, but that $1000 lasts for a few hours until the next visit to the toilet, so don't talk to me about how quickly the value of things depreciate. People can spend tens of thousands a year on good restaurants. Good for them if they can afford it and if that's what they enjoy (as I do). That quite clearly has absolutely zero to do with something holding value. It's about what someone wants to spend their money on. You spend $8.5k+ a year on hookers and are waffling on about someone spending $20-30k more than you would on a car. What sense does that make?

What are you talking about? I go to a steak house with a friend, monthly, spending $30-40 which includes the meal and one drink. And yes, there's conversation, interacting with ppl (this includes the staff), and experiencing the foods. It's obvious that you don't know what life is about if you can't see the difference between that and fawning over a vehicle.

And when I get my paycheck, much of it goes into dividend stocks, as my mortgage is paid off. When I get my bonus, I park a big chunk of it, into an annuity, along with the DRIPs. So what happens is that that $8.5K is completely eclipsed by what I get, simply holding onto those shares and letting them automatically reinvest every quarter. So right now, I'm in full accrual mode. My eggsnest is growing, despite the cost of hoes.

Rin says

What are you talking about? I go to a steak house with a friend, monthly, spending $30-40 which includes the meal and one drink. And yes, there's conversation, interacting with ppl (this includes the staff), and experiencing the foods. It's obvious that you don't know what life is about if you can't see the difference between that and fawning over a vehicle.

Oh, give me strength. I'm making a point about what people like spending their money on. People like different things. Look at you. You claim to spend the better part of 10K a year on whores yet think you are in a position to lecture people about how they should spend their money.

Rin says

And when I get my paycheck, much of it goes into dividend stocks, as my mortgage is paid off. When I get my bonus, I park a big chunk of it, into an annuity, along with the DRIPs. So what happens is that that $8.5K is completely eclipsed by what I get, simply holding onto those shares and letting them automatically reinvest every quarter. So right now, I'm in full accrual mode. My eggsnest is growing, despite the cost of hoes.

Wow, amazing. And the original poster has been paying down his mortgage to the tune of $100k a year, and saving $400k in a cash (and who knows what else on top of that). They seem to be doing perfectly all right. If he wants to spend 30k more on a car than you would, then so what? You're spending $30k more on hookers over 3 years than he is...

Call it Crazy says

i continue to suck you guys

Eeeew....

Obviously there are people who like to gamble with their homes and buy pointless status symbols that depreciate instantly. That's why God invented Orange County.

Bigsby says

You're spending $30k more on hookers over 3 years than he is...

Here's my financial spiel ... you don't pay for hoes for 1 to 3 years up front. Ok, this isn't some season ticket pass to see the Patriots.

For a car, you either pay the whole thing upfront, or get a monthly payment program which is a loan.

Ok, now here's how a DRIP (dividend reinvestment) works. If you have $40K in tobacco, each quarter you get a piece of those earnings. If it's 4% per year you get some cash, like $400, every quarter. That $400 buys let's say another 10 shares. Your brokerage account can automate this for you. At year's end, with the compounding shares, that's $41.6K. In three years, $45K. In ten years, ~$60K and this assumes a completely sideways market, which is seldom the case. And it assumes no other additional funds.

Now, I have a lot more than $40K parked away, so splurging once in a while, is no big deal.

For this person, or someone like him, after paying $60K ... for one, the car will depreciate but at the same time, he'll still have to pay for maintenance, insurance, etc. In a very short time, the joyride thing (unless he's a racer) will wane whereas so far, I like meeting up with my friend for steak, for many years. The experience is more valuable than ownership.

And yes, boning a hottie, knowing that I don't need to buy her a ring or take her to Aruba, to gain her attention, is also of value. It makes my sex life very compartmentalized. It's the experience.

And that's the big difference. There's no real intrinsic value in that vehicle aside from the show off/status thing, which gets old.

Call it Crazy says

escape from the realities of his real life

Dude, you just need some spending money to do hoes. But yes, working in finance is a lame career though it puts food on the table.

Ceffer says

buy pointless status symbols that depreciate instantly

That's a big part of my point.

Rin says

Here's my financial spiel ... you don't pay for hoes for 1 to 3 years up front. Ok, this isn't some season ticket pass to see the Patriots.

For a car, you either pay the whole thing upfront, or get a monthly payment program which is a loan.

Ok, now here's how a DRIP (dividend reinvestment) works. If you have $40K in tobacco, each quarter you get a piece of those earnings. If it's 4% per year you get some cash, like $400, every quarter. That $400 buys let's say another 10 shares. Your brokerage account can automate this for you. At year's end, with the compounding shares, that's $41.6K. In three years, $45K. In ten years, ~$60K and this assumes a completely sideways market, which is seldom the case.

Now, I have a lot more than $40K parked away, so splurging once in a while, is no big deal.

He pays $55k for his car. You pay $25k. The difference is 30K. He keeps the car for say 6 years. During those 6 years, you spend nearly $60k on hookers. You can make all the comments about investments you like, but it's utterly irrelevant. If he buys the car, he's simply making a different choice about how to spend his money than you are. You aren't making more money over that period than he is. He's spending 30k more upfront on a car than you would. You are spending $60k more on hookers over the potential 6 year period that he keeps the car. How does that make your expenditure better than his? At the end of that 6 years, he's got a car to sell. You've just got medical bills to pay for your STDs.

Actually, my talk about investments is significant because for one, the quarterly cost of seeing hoes versus my portfolio accrual is shrinking. Actually, it's minimal right now. When this job is over, I won't have to work a day of my life again and can see hoes regularly and even buy a Porsche, if I really wanted.

The difference is that I know the difference between a status symbol and an experience. The escort is a beautiful woman in her 20s. Normally, I would have to spend much more money, taking such a gal out to high end places, just to keep her around. Instead, I've compartmentalized the entire experience into a short romp, on a road trip up north. Many guys in finance, date high maintenance women. That's not for me. I want to shag and get back to my routine.

This guy is not in my position because someday, he may run out of work. When that occurs, that annuity, which could help hold him over till social security, may come in handy. Plus, my car will retain more of its used value and so, that $25K gap is really closer to $15K, since I'd be selling the vehicle myself. Plus, he could buy a Civic from Hertz w/ added warranty for $14K and park those additional monies for a rainy day.

Rin says

The escort is a beautiful woman in her 20s. Normally, I would have to spend much more money, taking such a gal out to high end places, just to keep her around. Instead, I've compartmentalized the entire experience into a short romp, on a road trip up north. Many guys in finance, date high maintenance women. That's not for me. I want to shag and get back to my routine.

Also, I don't like pretending to be in love. That stuff ended 4 years ago, with a Canadian whack job girlfriend.

Live in Caligulan splendor. Buy M134's, lots of ammo, and yams.

Rin says

This guy is not in my position because someday, he may run out of work. When that occurs, that annuity, which could help hold him over till social security, may come in handy. Plus, my car will retain more of its used value and so, that $25K gap is really closer to $15K, since I'd be selling the vehicle myself. Plus, he could buy a Civic from Hertz w/ added warranty for $14K and park those additional monies for a rainy day.

You really are living in your own little dream world.

Bigsby says

Wow, a club of two. You and Strategist. Thank fuck I'm not invited.

Given the attention on my other thread, looks like Ceffer and others are also interested in this stuff.

You can take your Puritanical meanderings elsewhere.

Bigsby says

You really are living in your own little dream world.

That's right, there's no such thing as age discrimination.

Whatever a man earns in his prime, is what he'll earn for the rest of his life.

Say that to someone who's 55 and laid off from DuPont labs. Chances are, that guy will be working at Home Depot, for the rest of his days.

Rin says

Given the attention on my other thread, looks like Ceffer and others are also interested in this stuff.

You can take your Puritanical meanderings elsewhere.

What's puritanical about what I said? I said you aren't in a position to lambast someone for 'wasting' money on a car when you are spending $10k on hookers. Is that really so difficult to understand?

Rin says

That's right, there's no such thing as age discrimination.

Whatever a man earns in his prime, is what he'll earn for the rest of his life.

Say that to someone who's 55 and laid off from DuPont labs. Chances are, that guy will be working at Home Depot, for the rest of his days.

Do you have mental problems? What has that got to do with what I said? And aren't you supposed to be a busy investment banker? You don't half spend an inordinate amount of your work day on here.

Bigsby says

What's puritanical about what I said? I said you aren't in a position to lambast someone for 'wasting' money on a car when you are spending $10k on hookers. Is that really so difficult to understand?

I earn a ton of money and I invest it prudently. I will be fully financially independent when this job is done.

Most ppl do not have my circumstances. Many, if/when they lose their jobs, will suffer w/o a solid rainy day fund. So my steak/hoes/martial arts classes and other discretionary spending, which is based around quality of life experiences, pales compared to my rainy day fund.

You say $10K ... that $10K is spread over time. Do you not understand the value of time? Are you that dense? A car is an upfront cost, whether it's a cashier's check or a loan agreement but the entire thing is paid upfront. Then, if it's a loan, there are fixed monthly costs; you cannot decide not to pay. During the winter, I'd decided, thanks to the snow, not to drive to Canada. Don't you get the difference? I have much more control and flexibility in my life. In fact, due to the weather, I'd shaved a nice slice off that annual payout on hoes. You can't do that with a car loan agreement. But yet, during the winter, my dividends compounded. Now, I have even more money to spend on hoes, if I so chose.

Bigsby says

And aren't you supposed to be a busy investment banker? You don't half spend an inordinate amount of your work day on here.

Hello, do you know what an account manager is? It's a person who sits around, IMing clients and saying the same things to them. It's now a job of cutting/pasting the same presentations.

I use PatNet to keep myself from going nuts in this job. This is my relief valve.

Rin says

I earn a ton of money and I invest it prudently. I will be fully financially independent when this job is done.

So you keep saying. And you drive an Accord!

Rin says

Most ppl do not have my circumstances. Many, if/when they lose their jobs, will suffer w/o a solid rainy day fund. So my steak/hoes/martial arts classes and other discretionary spending, which is based around quality of life experiences, pales compared to my rainy day fund.

The original poster said he had $400k in cash...

Rin says

You say $10K ... that $10K is spread over time. Do you not understand the value of time? Are you that dense? A car is an upfront cost, whether it's a cashier's check or a loan agreement but the entire thing is paid upfront.

Duh. Your 10k is spread over a year. Wow. His potential car ownership is spread over a number of years. That's his expense. It doesn't make any difference that it's up front in regard to the comparison that is being made because a reasonable comparison is 30k up front vs your 60k over 6 years with nothing to show for it at the end of that period. How does that make your choice so much better than his?

Rin says

Then, if it's a loan, there are fixed monthly costs; you cannot decide not to pay. During the winter, I'd decided, thanks to the snow, not to drive to Canada. Don't you get the difference? I have much more control and flexibility in my life.

Er, he was talking about what he might do with his $400k CASH. What part of that refers to a loan? Clearly, you DON'T have 'much more control and flexibility in your life' because your scenario isn't the one that was outlined.
Seriously, you need to get your muddled reasoning in order. Aren't you supposed to be an investment banker?

Rin says

Hello, do you know what an account manager is? It's a person who sits around, IMing clients and saying the same things to them. It's now a job of cutting/pasting the same presentations.

So you say....

Bigsby says

Er, he was talking about what he might do with his $400k CASH. What part of that refers to a loan? Clearly, you DON'T have 'much more control and flexibility in your life' because your scenario isn't the one that was outlined.

Seriously, you need to get your muddled reasoning in order. Aren't you supposed to be an investment banker?

Yes, I know the situation. But I also mentioned the two ways which a car could be purchased. You apparently didn't get that. He could do the monthly payment, assuming that the other cash could be grown elsewhere. A lot of ppl do that. I didn't come up with this notion on my own.

Nonetheless, by doing so, the discretionary cash is locked away, every month, no flexibility there.

When the time comes for my Camry purchase, a sliver, yes, a sliver of my savings account will be put into a cashier's check to buy it. This doesn't change my circumstances.

Since I've already gave my annuity speech, I won't repeat myself. I've invested most of my earnings during the years I'd broken up with the Canadian, now almost 4 years ago.