patrick.net

You believe these things were part of his 1992 campaign ?

#1 Certainly was.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/10/us/the-1992-campaign-the-ad-campaign-clinton-getting-people-off-welfare.html

The Clinton campaign yesterday began broadcasting its second commercial since the Republican National Convention. The campaign said it purchased $1 million of broadcast time in 10 states for the 30-second advertisement, but it refused to name the states. It said about a third of the money would be spent in the South. ON THE SCREEN Opens with these words against plain background: "The Clinton Plan. Welfare to Work." Switches to image of Gov. Bill Clinton in a jacket and tie leaning on his office desk. As Mr. Clinton discusses welfare, the camera zooms in for a close-up, and these lines appear on the screen: "End welfare as we know it," "Provide education, training and child care," and "Those who are able must go to work"

TELEVISION SCRIPT (Mr. Clinton speaking): "For so long Government has failed us, and one of its worst failures had been welfare. "I have a plan to end welfare as we know it -- to break the cycle of welfare dependency. We'll provide education, job training and child care, but then those who are able must go to work, either in the private sector or in public service. "I know it can work. In my state we've moved 17,000 people from welfare rolls to payrolls. It's time to make welfare what it should be -- a second chance, not a way of life."

https://www.youtube.com/embed/XObcP69dhCg

I don't see the welfare reform that Clinton was going for as leaning right. Welfare needed reform. In fact the most left wing thing you could do is eliminate welfare entirely, except for the disabled, and guarantee jobs for everyone.

Reality: http://www.4president.org/brochures/billclinton1992brochure.htm

It would be refreshing to see you admit you are wrong just once.

Oh, forgot another legacy of Right Wing Clinton Democrats:

The Prison Industrial Complex.
http://www.salon.com/2015/04/13/the_clinton_dynastys_horrific_legacy_how_tough_on_crime_politics_built_the_worlds_largest_prison/

The explosion of the prison system under Bill Clinton’s version of the “War on Drugs” is impossible to dispute. The total prison population rose by 673,000 people under Clinton’s tenure — or by 235,000 more than it did under President Ronald Reagan, according to a study by the Justice Policy Institute. “Under President Bill Clinton, the number of prisoners under federal jurisdiction doubled, and grew more than it did under the previous 12-years of Republican rule,combined,” states the JPI report (italics theirs). The federal incarceration rate in 1999, the last year of the Democrat’s term, was 42 per 100,000 — more than double the federal incarceration rate at the end of President Reagan’s term (17 per 100,000), and 61 percent higher than at the end of President George Bush’s term (25 per 100,000), according to JPI.

This is key:

Just before the New Hampshire primary, Bill Clinton famously flew back to Arkansas to personally oversee the execution of a mentally impaired African-American inmate named Ricky Ray Rector. The “New Democrat” spoke on the campaign trail of being tougher on criminals than Republicans; and the symbolism of the Rector execution was followed by a series of Clinton “tough on crime” measures, including: a $30 billion crime bill that created dozens of new federal capital crimes; new life-sentence rules for some three-time offenders; mandatory minimums for crack and crack cocaine possession; billions of dollars in funding for prisons; extra funding for states that severely punished convicts; limited judges’ discretion in determining criminal sentences; and so on. There is very strong evidence that these policies had a small impact on actual crime rates, totally out of proportion to their severity.

marcus says

It would be refreshing to see you admit you are wrong just once.

Why would I concede a point I have good reason to believe? Note I'm not saying that every last Babyboomer voted Republican, but the overall leaning of that group was "Cut my taxes, put the Darkies in Prison, Borrow to pay for it - but keep abortion legal".

thunderlips11 says

Boomers kicked the ladder out behind them after they climbed it.

Yeah but greedy Gen X'ers helped.
I remember when I was in my 20's corporate America was ran by young people. They didn't own the shit but they were put in product development and new designs. The Boomers were washed up and being tossed to the side all throughout the 90's. It was those 20 to 30 something assmunches in the 90's that streamlined business and made a contest out of a race to the bottom for the middle class.
They worshiped money. It was this generation that turned banks into what they are today where money goes in but it doesnt' come back out. But it does go in a lot of pockets in performance bonsues.
The Boomers may have only benefited by owning the companies that the twerties of the 90's, while they not only put them seleves out of work. They destroyed the whole middle class with their bullshit.
That is why companies today wont let a kid under 30 years old anywhere near an important descision.

thunderlips11 says

put the Darkies in Prison, Borrow to pay for it - but keep abortion legal"

"yeah, because I'm such a simpleton that I reckon, derrr, if it happened, it's the boomers fault, because,...you know,...boomers."

One of the interesting things about the Trump phenomenon is it shows how many people like simple answers to complicated issues.

I can't think of a more overly simplistic and stupid inference about America's problems than "it's the boomers."

Sure there are a lot of self involved, stupid, and or asshole boomers, just like there are in every other generation. But one thing I NEVER NEVER NEVER heard from boomers was this kind of cry-baby generalized blaming of other generations, which they easily could have done in the seventies, and more so could have done in the 80s. Reagan was a member of the so called greatest generation.

You only romanticize the 70s and 80s because you weren't an adult then.

marcus says

Sure there are a lot of self involved, stupid, and or asshole boomers, just like there are in every other generation. But one thing I NEVER NEVER NEVER heard from boomers was this kind of cry-baby generalized blaming of other generations, which they easily could have done in the seventies, and more so could have done in the 80s. Reagan was a member of the so called greatest generation.

Wow, you'd never know the Boomers are infamous for their disregard of their Great Prosperity creating, WW2 Winning Parents.

Tenpoundbass says

That is why companies today wont let a kid under 30 years old anywhere near an important descision.

Mitt Romney a Gen-Xer in his 20s/30s when he was in his prime years as a Debt Vulture?

How about Michael Milliken?
You think the Gen X'ers were making the majority of executive decisions at LTC Management in the late 90s?

The very model of a Raiding Executive enshrined in Hollywood is "Gordon Gekko".

Boomers benefited from the greatest Cut Taxes, then Borrow and Spend Explosion right at the peak of their careers in their 30s-50s. They benefited from the greatest run up in Stocks. They benefited from the greatest upswing in Military Spending since WW2. Outsourcing kept prices for consumer goods were flat, and they didn't care about skyrocketing home and college costs because they either had their degree from the highly subsidized 60s-70s tuition era, or they already brought a house.

Indiana Jones says

My generation, Gen X, is in far worse financial shape than our parents were at the same age. Millennials are even worse off than we are.

True points.

thunderlips11 says

Low cost state-subsidized tuition - rolled back the moment the last boomers were done with college.

Rent control - eliminated the moment the boomers became homeowners.

Defunding of America's Cities - began the moment the boomers moved to the burbs (Ford to City: Drop Dead)

Deindustrialization of America - lead by 1970s MBA boomer execs who lead outsourcing projects beginning in the 80s.

All true.

Additionally, Boomers...
1. Held orgies and introduced AIDS to the world and then waged a propaganda war to convince younger generations that sex would kill them or ruin their lives.
2. Killed off half of all life on the planet during their 40-year reign. Yet, they claim environmentalism as their contribution to the world.
3. Refused to fight in war, but had no problem starting several unjustified wars and countless unrecognized wars (police action) during the past 40 years.
4. Proudly engaged in far more drug use than any other generation, and still do, when you count the legal narcotics they take today. And also waged a War on Drugs killing countless innocents.

marcus says

This stupid pitting one generation against another is the great innovation of your generation. A true first !!

It's obvious there is a large imbalance between generations and how they benefited from the environment.

Why don't you just admit it?

Heraclitusstudent says

It's obvious there is a large imbalance between generations and how they benefited from the environment.

I disagree. Life and times are what they are, they are the cards that you are dealt, what you do with the hand is up to you. There are LOTS of opportunities out there but you DO have to do something to make them happen. Oh, and sometimes you will fail, it's okay, pick yourself up and try it again or look for the next opportunity. Want to know the best way to fail? It's a successful way (to fail) that has worked throughout all of history. Sit in one spot and whine about how tough your life is.

Sorry, life has handed me a LOT of ups and downs but I've always gotten up, dusted myself off and tried again. Quit you're bitching and moaning and look for your next chance to make yourself and your life better.

Here's a hint to get you started: Year Round summer attire...

Heraclitusstudent says

It's obvious there is a large imbalance between generations and how they benefited from the environment.

mmmarvel says

Quit you're bitching and moaning and look for your next chance to make yourself and your life better.

Heraclitusstudent says

It's obvious there is a large imbalance between generations and how they benefited from the environment.

Why don't you just admit it?

For one thing, I was in the second half of the baby boom. The first half was better situated in many ways, by the time my cohort was entering the work force there weren't nearly the corporate opportunities for GOOD entry level jobs that there were 10 years earlier or 10 years later. Plus there was a terrible recession in 1981, and a lot of uncertainty the couple years before that. Sure, I observed that things were better for the early boomers, but I've never whined about it. In fact I've hardly ever mentioned it to anyone.

As for real estate, sure, the luck of timing, with among other things interest rates steadily coming down, has been great for homeowners.

Actually there have been a lot of technology opportunities for those so inclined that did not exist in the years boomers entered the workplace. I did some programming in college. Fortran, with cards, it sucked. I hated that. I did programming later too, with C++ and Java. Much cooler. The higher level tech opportunities that followed in the 90s and since have been awesome.

So no. I really don't see it. You sound like a bunch of cry babies. And some of this stuff is too laughable to believe.

Dan8267 says

Refused to fight in war, but had no problem starting several unjustified wars and countless unrecognized wars (police action) during the past 40 years.

America lost a about 200 thousand boomers in Vietnam, and very few from any other generation. All the generalizations are absurd. As if Dick Cheney or GWB represents me? Wtf ?

Lots of poor souls in California has serious Daddy issues.

Boomers were owed a winning war by their parents, who instead of making shells and shelters were off fucking up ( procreating, not messing ) a whole booming generation of winners. We were lucky to have inherited the world given the perpetual state of heat our parents survived...

thunderlips11 says

Wow, you'd never know the Boomers are infamous for their disregard of their Great Prosperity creating, WW2 Winning Parents.

Dan those photos just scream that you have serious Daddy issues.

marcus says

As for real estate, sure, the luck of timing, with among other things interest rates steadily coming down, has been great for homeowners.

Hey Marcus,

It's disingenuous to brush off the housing market luck as playing a minor role. Perhaps it's at the very core of the problem. It's a chunk of wealth building that many Gen Xers and later will never see. Remember that the next time that you go to the polls. Land use policy is embedded in so much of what we vote for--and people smugly look the other way.

http://www.newgeography.com/content/004888-pikettys-wealth-driven-inequality-virtually-all-housing

I don't blame Boomers for being "greedy," but I do consider that many of them are in absolute denial of the fortune bestowed them and that many are now in positions of power exercising the tone-deafness to the issues of later generations. But I'm quite aware most everyone is in this "game" for their own families first and then maybe a little bit for society. They're not in it for the next generation, they are in it for their kids and grandkids, which will make Boomers take every last cent off the table that the system allows them.

They have benefited so greatly from the status quo--and the great misfortune for the later generations is that they are remaining in political power and remaining one of the most powerful voter blocs ever in American history. Maybe the best we can hope for is early onset senility--in which case we can vote for them in their last living years, helping reverse some of the unintentional damage they did by voting "short term greedy.":)

On another note: my big beef with the boomer generation is that they are gobbling up real estate, right next to the chinese, in the Bay Area. I cannot tell you how the dominant purchasers in my neighborhood are empty nesters from other places in the US swooping in to SF to pick up 2+ million dollar flats. Empty-nesters from out of town snatching up second (third, fourth) homes and displacing the working families in that neighborhood--a scenario that naturally leads to deep resentment. And taken a step further, empty-nesters from out of town converting their new found investment properties into short-term rentals.

I introduce to you the landlady of my dear retired lady neighbor. (http://www.antievictionmap.com/sleazy16/#/charles-manning-sharon-manning/) This neighbor often complains that she's now the last long-term renter standing in this income property owned by this landlady, Mrs Manning. And Mrs Manning won't even make minor improvements--we think that Mrs Manning wants nothing more than to get this long-term renter out for good so that she can convert that unit into another short-term rental.

I realize that Mrs Manning doesn't typify the boomer generation. I'm not suggesting that in the least. Again, my point was that Boomers, I'd bet, are much much more able to play real estate (as in, buy a second home) in their harvest years than preceding generation's middle and middle-upper income families. Hell, the latter are struggling to get their first and only modest starter house, which many perhaps realize can be nothing other than a dream.

marcus says

You sound like a bunch of cry babies. And some of this stuff is too laughable to believe.

You guys are so defensive, you can smell the shit with that perfume.
Look, this stuff is simple: this is not about this individual, me or you, or me whining, or not taking my chances. This has nothing to do with that. Individuals all do what they can.

The difference between a boomer and a millenial is this:
- Average boomer buys real-estate at a time it was cheap. Lives in a normal/nice house all his/her life. Spends 20% of wage on mortgage or rent. Sees his/her equity grow up steadily all his/her life. Huge urban sprawls were built to house that generation. Now these very same people (homeowners) actively oppose building enough units to house the next generation. Average boomer benefited of globalization, stock boom etc... affording cheap crap built by chinese slave labor in off-shored factories.

- Average millenial comes of age in a much more competitive environment. Is buried in student debt, insurance costs. Live in high school room till 30, then rent or buy a 1 bedroom apartment, costing them 45% of their wages they pay their seniors - thanks to the actions of these same seniors.

Yeah they can program in Java and interact with smartphones. Thank you so much!
That you call them "cry-babies" because some dare to complain or find it unfair, is very disingenuous to say the least.

marcus says

America lost a about 200 thousand boomers in Vietnam, and very few from any other generation.

And tens of millions of boomers burned their draft cards.

I've got nothing wrong with people being against going to war, as long as they are also against sending other people to war.

marcus says

All the generalizations are absurd.

Self-contradicting statement.

Without generalization, no book could ever be written on any subject matter.

Counter-examples to your absurd statement that "all generalizations are absurd", ...
1. The equation a^n + b^n = c^n has no non-zero solutions for n greater than 2.
2. Matter is attractive according to the equation F = G * m1 * m2 / r^2.
3. No particle with mass reach the speed of light.
4. Particles can only decay into tuplets whose combined mass is less than the parent particle.
5. Usable energy decreases over time.
6. All life requires energy to function.
7. Mass extinctions are followed by rapid evolution as species compete to fill vacated niches.
8. War is hell.
9. Poverty and inequality are the prime causes of violent crime.
10. It is human nature to be nice when it is expected that the behavior will be reciprocated, and it is human nature to be mean when it is expected that the behavior will not or cannot be reciprocated.
11. Most parents love their children.
12. Most children trust their parents.
13. Pride comes before a fall.
14. People who have shot up schools should not be granted a gun license.
15. Convicted child rapists should not be allowed to assemble near schools.
16. Women who are highly educated and have good career prospects are less likely to appear on Girls Gone Wild.
17. CIC's posts are moronic.
18. Americans are wealthier than most other people in the world.
19. Giving children crack or alcohol harms their future.
20. People with high incomes are more likely to fly first class.
21. People with college degrees make more than those with high school diplomas.
22. People without even high school diplomas make even less and are more likely to be homeless.
23. Men want more causal sex than women.

You know, I could go on forever. Have you realized your wrong, yet?

FortWayne says

Dan those photos just scream that you have serious Daddy issues.

Don't get too turned on FortWayne, my daddy is a member of the Silent Generation, not the Boomers. And he's awesome. He raised four extremely smart, good looking, and successful kids on a single income. I love my parents and respect them because they are lovable and respectable.

And, of course, not every Boomer is a selfish scumbag, but enough are to make the generation as a whole deplorable. One should not judge individuals based on groups. One absolutely should judge groups based on the aggregated actions of the individuals in it. Like it or not, the Boomers have made their legacy, and it's not a good one. They broke the fundamental social contract that each generation would make the world a slightly better place for the next generation. The Boomers have dismantled Progressive Reforms, broken Unions and the power of labor, dismantled the American economy, sold off infrastructure to China, polluted the Earth like a toilet, killed off half of all wildlife on the planet, made their children and grandchildren poorer than they are, introduced torture as a legal means of the government enforcing its will, created tens of millions of terrorists who want to kill us, removed almost all transparency from government, destroyed anti-trust laws, caused the Second Great Depression, and bankrupted our nation. That is your legacy.

Our legacies will be to rebuild what your generation has destroyed.

Ironman says

FortWayne says

Dan those photos just scream that you have serious Daddy Mental issues.

There, fixed that one too!

CIC has serious Bambi issues.

Ironman says

Aren't those the two next generations?

You missed my point. I wasn't clear enough.

Kids and grandkids vs. the next generation (meaning by in large everyone else other than specifically your kids and grandkids!)

Ironman says

as their first house and saved their money, instead of blowing all their money on iCrap! Millenialls want to go right out and buy McMansions as their first houses but didn't save any money to put towards them.

Dude, you have no data to substantiate. Icrap is cheap relative to the costs which are saddling the youngest generations. And while we're at it, I bet the older generations love their icrap as much and more than the younger ones. Look around at all the retirees on the plane next time--they've all got their icrap toys too. At least the younger generation is using it for their job in most cases. I have a smart phone because my company requires it--as do most of my peers.

As to your second statement about McMansions, what do you make of the tiny living movement that's been embraced out of necessity by the younger generations?

You should take a deep breath and count to ten before you make your reactionary statements.

CIC, do I have to remind you of our conversation and the advice I gave you in it.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/X6WHBO_Qc-Q

CIC, you went full retard. Never go full retard. Never.

Ironman says

Why should the boomers have to take care of ALL of the next generation. What are you a Socialist too?

Many people vote their conscience and against their own short-term financial interests, which is why you have plenty of bleeding heart wealthy liberals, thank god.

All I know is, after listening to people like you, I'm hell bent on taking away your medicare and your SS--the kind of socialism that you all love. You can bet I will vote for means-testing and caps. You said you don't like whining. I predict the next generations eventually are going to get off our/their asses and realize that trying to rationalize with the likes you is impossible. When it's game time, it will simply be class and generational warfare--because these days they are looking about one and the same.

Bring it on.

Dan8267 says

marcus says

All the generalizations are absurd.

Self-contradicting statement.

Without generalization, no book could ever be written on any subject matter.

You couldn't figure out from the context, that "all THE generalizations" referred to yours and TLips generlaizations about boomers. The vietnam one was just one example. But they are all ridiculous.

Dan8267 says

Additionally, Boomers...

1. Held orgies and introduced AIDS to the world and then waged a propaganda war to convince younger generations that sex would kill them or ruin their lives.

2. Killed off half of all life on the planet during their 40-year reign. Yet, they claim environmentalism as their contribution to the world.

3. Refused to fight in war, but had no problem starting several unjustified wars and countless unrecognized wars (police action) during the past 40 years.

4. Proudly engaged in far more drug use than any other generation, and still do, when you count the legal narcotics they take today. And also waged a War on Drugs killing countless innocents.

Each of these is an absurd indictment of everyone born during the interval which defines boomers (the only thing that actually defines us).

The global population went from 3 billion to 7 billion in the past 55 years or so. The fact that we didn't prevent so many species (and human languages too) from going extinct, this is somehow our fault ? Really ? What have you done so far to help reverse this trend ? Let me guess. You think giving $50 to Sierra Club once or twice a year will make a difference. That's thinking like a boomer.

Each of your generalizations is equally stupid. What, you really think the boomers are a bunch of Karl Roves ? I guess your logic skills, or lack there of have been reduced to this kind of thinking: "Karl Rove is a baby boomer, therefore most boomers are like Karl Rove."

Really ?

Dan8267 says

Have you realized your wrong, yet?

You're trolling game needs work.

Marcus, if you want to go by each of my statements and provide evidence that's it's wrong, go ahead. I've got plenty of evidence to back up each one. You want to poo-poo statements calling them generalizations, then my analysis applies. On the other hand, if you want to get into specifics, then man up, bitch. In a war of evidence, you have no chance.

Dan8267 says

Don't get too turned on FortWayne, my daddy is a member of the Silent Generation, not the Boomers. And he's awesome. He raised four extremely smart, good looking, and successful kids on a single income. I love my parents and respect them because they are lovable and respectable.

Ditto, my old man is a Silent also. He did his job everyday, almost never called in sick, came in at 3AM for emergencies - but he was also fortunate. He entered the workforce in the late 50s where young people were in demand. He lived in an age where if you were reliable and dutiful you didn't need a degree to go from mail room to stock room to stock room manager to chief facilities manager running an entire Chemistry R&D Complex; he dropped out of college after his freshman year but ended up making nearly 6 figures in the early 90s when he retired.

Today, they wouldn't consider somebody from the stock room for any kind of management facilities job, no matter how entry level the position, no matter how many years of reliable service and gumption, without a college degree and probably a shitload of unpaid internships at famous places. Think how spoiled lazy HR People must be. Back then most of the workforce only had a HS Diploma (if that), and they had to separate the wheat from the chaff without the cruch of "At least eventually got a 4-year degree".

thunderlips11 says

Ditto, my old man is a Silent also. He did his job everyday, almost never called in sick, came in at 3AM for emergencies

The silent generation is underrated. They are far better than the Boomers. My dad worked a lot of overtime.

thunderlips11 says

he dropped out of college after his freshman year.

My dad also left college before graduating and joined the navy during Vietnam.

thunderlips11 says

he dropped out of college after his freshman year but ended up making nearly 6 figures in the early 90s when he retired

My dad didn't get that far, but today he has a nice pension and social security that provides more than enough for a comfortable living. But his hard work enabled all four of his kids to make six figures straight out of college. That's what I mean by each generation making things a little better for the next. The Silent Generation and older ones appreciated this social contract. The Boomers burned it.

I don't know what Gen X's legacy will be. We created the Internet -- ARPANET wasn't really the Internet -- but outside of STEM, I see little contribution from Gen X. On the other hand, they haven't been selfish and destructive like the Boomers either.

I have more hope for the Millennials. They may have been spoiled by their Boomer parents, but they've seen tough economic times and are the most educated generation ever. So I think they might yet turn out pretty good. My biggest worry is that many of them still romanticize the Boomers and the 1960s. If you want to look at a generation for inspiration, the the progressive generation of the early 20th century is the one to emulate. The progressive reforms are among the most impressive in world history.

Ironman says

These are the traits that are so much more beneficial than a college degree. Unfortunately, most Millenialls can't come close to that level of work ethic.

Have you read some of @rin posts about how his company hires?

Ironman says

No, most of the time I'm not interested in Rin's fantasyland posts. What does his company do?

Obviously not making strap-on dildos or you'd know, being their biggest customer.

Ironman says

hat's the average sized home being sold today? It's 2300 sq ft. What was the average house size for the boomers starting out? It was around 1000 sq. ft.

Your data is so impeccable...except you forgot to make any mention of who is actually buying that house. Are the millennials? Are they Gen Xers?

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/news/2014/millennials-prefer-cities-to-suburbs-subways-to-driveways.html

And I have to believe that a large swath of younger Gen Xers opt for smaller, more urban, and more connected.

I'm done trying to debate with you--starting to realize how foolish a pursuit it is.

Dan8267 says

On the other hand, if you want to get into specifics, then man up, bitch. In a war of evidence, you have no chance.

If you can't understand that these generalizations make no sense, and I know already that you do understand, there is nothing I am inclined to say. By the way, the fact that a bunch of people protested the draft, by burning their cards tells very little, other than they objected to the idea to being forced. A draft card was a card with a number. The card itself didn't mean someone was drafted.

The very fact that 200K boomers died in the Vietnam war pretty well contradicts "refused to fight in a war."

What percentage of a group has to have an attribute for someone like you to generalize it to the entire group ?

What did the boomers do to kill off so many species that you wouldn't have done if you were a boomer ? Be honest.

Ironman says

I know, facts are a bitch, aren't they...

I need to go get some more popcorn.

marcus says

If you can't understand that these generalizations make no sense, and I know already that you do understand, there is nothing I am inclined to say.

Translation: I'm a pussy who cannot back up my assertions with evidence.

If you want to contradict my statements, you need facts, not bullshit. And if you're too cowardly to even attempt that, then simply,

marcus says

The very fact that 200K boomers died in the Vietnam war pretty well contradicts "refused to fight in a war."

That fact would contradict the statement "All Boomers refused to fight in a war", which is a statement no one in history has ever made. It does not contradict the statement "Most Boomers refused to fight in a war".

The fact that some women rape does not negate the fact that most rapists are men, dumb ass.

marcus says

The very fact that 200K boomers died in the Vietnam war pretty well contradicts "refused to fight in a war."

58,132 Deaths.

60,000 deserters to Canada alone, not including all those who went elsewhere, or were smarter or less honest by getting themselves Foreign Scholarships to study Botany in the South Pacific or Served in the Texas National Guard or had Senator Fullbright keeping them at Oxford or something.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3867481.stm

thunderlips11 says

58,132 Deaths.

You're right 200K is the dead or wounded number. Big difference.

Dan8267 says

dumb ass

I guess you might as well resort to your usual, rather than answer the tough questions.

marcus says

What percentage of a group has to have an attribute for someone like you to generalize it to the entire group ?

What did the boomers do to kill off so many species that you wouldn't have done if you were a boomer ? Be honest.

Dan8267 says

One absolutely should judge groups based on the aggregated actions of the individuals in it.

So, carrying that idea forward, it's okay to judge black people this way?

marcus says

I guess you might as well resort to your usual, rather than answer the tough questions.

Ask a tough question. I'll answer it accurately and honestly, two things you can't do. But it's up to you to make it clear you really are asking non-rhetorical questions instead of just trying to be an asshole.

marcus says

What percentage of a group has to have an attribute for someone like you to generalize it to the entire group ?

For an alleged math person, you really don't seem to have a grasp on the concepts of statistics or fuzzy logic. I don't know what percentage of the Nazis were evil fucks and what percentage were conscripts just trying to keep their families alive. But I do know that the Nazis as a whole were evil and had to be stopped. It's not about percentages. It's about overall behavior.

I have no idea what percentage of heterosexual men would agree to have a one-night stand with a gorgeous woman -- it's not 100% because of religious fanatics -- but I'm going to generalize that men are interested in no-strings-attached sex.

If you're trying to make the lame-ass point that not every single Baby Boomer is the same, then sorry pal. I beat your ass to it. However, it is not necessary to quantify a property in order to qualify it. I don't know what percentage of Arabic Muslims want death to America, but I can generalize that America has a fucking PR problem in the Middle East. To argue otherwise is utterly ridiculous.

It is also utterly ridiculous to completely ignore all the harm done by the Boomers that the rest of us have to fix simply because we can't precisely measure that harm. The harm is so fucking great, it doesn't need measuring. When a typhoon is about slam in your ass, you get the hell out of the way even if you can't tell if it's 95 ft or 100 ft. You don't just stand there letting it hit you because you don't have an exact measurement.

marcus says

What did the boomers do to kill off so many species that you wouldn't have done if you were a boomer ? Be honest.

I'm always honest, you dip-shit. Deception serves no purpose to someone who believes in rationality and transparency and does not accept the philosophy that the ends justify the means.

The first thing I would have done is not pollute the Earth like it's a toilet bowl. We should have a carbon tax. We should have signed the Kyoto Protocol. We should have implemented cap and trade. We should have never subsidized oil. We should not have promoted a car culture. We should have never allowed the expansion of dirty coal plants. We should have made high gas mileage standards back in the 1970s instead of building muscle cars.

Oh, and one other thing is worth pointing out. You don't even bother to deny that the Boomers killed off half the life on the planet. You just imply that any other generation would have done the same. Well, this is empirically false. No other generation has done as much harm to the environment, not prior generations or later ones. So no, you don't get to argue that the environmental destruction was inevitable and unavoidable. It was a choice based on the values of the Boomers, and to a lesser extend, prior generations. But the selfishness and greed of the Boomers greatly increased the damage. There is no excuse for killing of half the Earth. None.

marcus says

thunderlips11 says

58,132 Deaths.

You're right 200K is the dead or wounded number. Big difference.

The number of deaths is irrelevant. The fact remains that the anti-war movement is, if not the defining aspect of the Boomer generation, certainly a central and indispensable aspect of their generation. To deny this would be ridiculous. Yet, once the Boomers themselves were no longer the ones who lives were at risk, they became a lot more enamored with war and military operations around the world. From Central American dictatorships to South America drug wars to Middle Eastern oil wars to Far East military bases, the Boomer have had no problem funding the largest and most widely used military in the history of the world.

Under Baby Boomer rule, this is how our government spends our tax dollars. Notice that the military is over half of all discretionary spending, i.e. spending that Congress and the president actually have control over, that isn't mandated by law. This represents what the Boomers, who are in control, want to spend money on.

The following graphs shows inflation-adjusted spending on the military over the past 70 years. Notice that Boomers have dramatically increased military spending even in times of peace. How the fuck do you reconcile this with the peaceful hippie philosophy? You can't. It's hypocrisy. Boomers claimed to be for peace, but really love war and the spoils of war.