patrick.net

Sure, long term care insurance is great for those people who can afford it. You offer some cool options and those people whose assets are well above $100k will need a policy like this. Especially if they don't want to structure their assets to make them eligible for Medicaid.

However, people who have substantially less should see an elder law attorney and split their assets - they can become eligible immediately and they should do so before purchasing an expensive policy.

Does this apply to Texas as well regarding signing for your parents to be in a nursing home? What if no one signs at all, will they kick them out? I signed for my dad to be in because it was under duress. I was told I couldn't sign it on the Resident line. I told the Admissions administrator I was nervous about signing as responsible party as I didn't have the funds to cover the bills. Dad is now on Medicare only. Mom was next to go in the same nursing home - - all within 6 days of one another. She has dementia. Now they want me to sign her papers too. What to do? Help me!

Sasebone

Sasebone:

First, I'd recommend that you buy my book: http://patrick.net/nursing/survival.html

It's chock full of information, such as this. It also describes everything in minute detail (and tell everyone that you meet to buy it...) ;)

The nursing home is going to attempt to pressure you to sign, but have your mother sign her own paperwork or have them write that the patient is unable to sign. If you feel pressured and don't want to be contrary, sign but write this sentence on the financial responsibility pages:

"I am not personally responsible for my mother's bills."

While you're at it, ask to see the paperwork that you signed for your father and amend those pages to add the statement. Make sure that you write that on the pages that discuss pharmacy billing, physician's billings, and any other financial pages.
-----------------------------------
But don't freak out. They'd have to actually sue you to get any money out of you, and they don't want to do that due to the publicity nightmare and financial outlay. The important thing is that your parents are cared for - and that they can't make you do anything else if you don't want to.

You have so many other issues to deal with - if your parents are there long-term, the facility will have to apply for a payment source - and he might have a payment issue after the 20th day if he doesn't have co-insurance. Once again, I'd recommend that you read my book due to the multiple issues involved - it will answer your questions and help you figure out where to go from here. If, after you read it, you still have questions, please post them here and I'll be happy to address them

-elliemae

My mom has paid over $350 K over the past 3 years for skilled nursing care she needs. She has been giving them her income for the past 18 months, when they talked to her about medicaid is when she started to give then her income. She thought they were going to file for medicaid. She has be diagnosed as situational competent. In her mind when she started to give them her income 18 months ago, she thought she was on medicaid. She is bed ridden due to MS and depression and needs to be catheterized 4 times per day. She doesn't understand what is going on. Last week I received a 30 discharge notice kicking my mom out saying she owes over $100 K and she has 30 days to vacate. I believe my mom has just officially applied for medicaid last month and may get approval this year. The home is a special home for Jewish people and my mom is Jewish and was told by them when she goes on medicaid she won't be kicked out. Now she is being kicked out for non payment.
martyz@msn.com

If the person admitted to a nursing home or assisted living place has assets, why shouldn't they pay for his/her care? All of these strategies being investigated by the heirs to dump Mom's care on the rest of us - tsk, tsk, tsk,... And yes, do not become responsible for the care yourself, but that is a different matter entirely. I guess the hospital believed that the son bungled the Medicaid application process, and should be responsible for the loss.

Blurtman says

If the person admitted to a nursing home or assisted living place has assets, why shouldn't they pay for his/her care? All of these strategies being investigated by the heirs to dump Mom's care on the rest of us - tsk, tsk, tsk,... And yes, do not become responsible for the care yourself, but that is a different matter entirely. I guess the hospital believed that the son bungled the Medicaid application process, and should be responsible for the loss

So if someone works all their life, pays into medicare-the state will grab all their remaining assets. But if some bum who never worked, received welfare for life is admitted to the same medicare, they get all the same benefits and don't owe a dime??

Now Elimae speak it the English huh?

While I was ranting about the outright strong arm robbery that is our healthcare system. She said it was only because I hate the black guy in the White House.

Tenpoundbass says

Now Elimae speak it the English huh?

Sure - if by "now" you mean six years ago. Blurtman says

I guess the hospital believed that the son bungled the Medicaid application process, and should be responsible for the loss.

Hospitals (and other medical providers) have become much more aggressive in their attempts to collect monies. This was a nursing home - but there are laws in many states that make family members responsible for other family members. There was a lawsuit a few years ago where a guy lost because he was served by a nursing home under such a law, and he didn't attempt to fight it. The home won a judgment by default and the guy was totally fucked. tens of thousands of dollars.

lostand confused says

So if someone works all their life, pays into medicare-the state will grab all their remaining assets. But if some bum who never worked, received welfare for life is admitted to the same medicare, they get all the same benefits and don't owe a dime??

Someone who works all their life and pays into Medicare will receive all the benefits for which they are eligible. When someone spends down their money to less than $2,000 and is in a nursing home, they can apply for Medicaid to see if it will pay for their room and board. Wealthy people or those who plan well can become eligible nearly immediately by setting aside their finances.

No, it doesn't seem fair. But neither is life. If it were, Hillary would have pissed on Trump instead of leaving to hit the restroom.

elliemae says

And the nursing home won over $100,000 judgement.

From a judge or a jury? Never trust a judge. Always get a jury.

And he should have counter-sued the nursing home for fraud.

Also, he should spend the rest of his life advertising what happen to him because of Glastonbury Healthcare Center. The bad publicity will be worth more than $100,000. I would never do business with a company that would do such a thing. He should go all over social media and protest outside their center every day or pay someone to do so. It's his first amendment right. See how much the company likes all the attention that comes with that settlement.

lostand confused says

So if someone works all their life, pays into medicare-the state will grab all their remaining assets.

If you feel that way, perhaps you could write a check for the woman. Everyone else who worked their whole lives and paid into Medicare should then have to pay for this person, so that her heirs can keep the money? Or perhaps we should raise taxes more?

Blurtman says

If you feel that way, perhaps you could write a check for the woman

If you paid all your life into medicare-you should get better care and not the same as some bum who was on welfare and gets the same care. You have paid into the system for decades and should get proportional care.
Pull the bums of the medicare/Medicaid and you pay for them.

anonymous says

The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 signed into law in February 2006 put a little crimp into things for a whole lot of people and most won't figure it out until it's too late.

So Dubya was the biggest socialist of all?

Dan8267 says

From a judge or a jury? Never trust a judge. Always get a jury.

Jury isn't always better Dan. Everyone has their biases, difference is only in numbers. Judge 1 bias, jury... whole bunch of collective bias.

Elliemae, thank you so much for sharing that. When I get home tonight I'm gonna print out a copy and put it into our estate binder.

lostand confused says

Pull the bums of the medicare/Medicaid and you pay for them

I think you may mean people who have never worked a day in their lives, including their spouses as well. I am not too sure how many people there are like that. Elderly immigrants are likely in that group, I suppose. But your main argument is that you should pay your way, I believe. So if you paid into Medicare your whole life, and then required care that exceeded the appreciated value of what you paid in, I guess it is out in the streets time, and no more care for you, granny.

Blurtman says

I guess it is out in the streets time, and no more care for you, granny.

if that is the way it works, it should be for the bums too and they should be asked to pay on their own dime. Insurance does nto work that way, you pay a premium and if you get sick, then the insurance company pays for it. They do not come and take your house and all your assets, if it goes more than your premiums. Bums on the other hand get a free ride for life.

elliemae says

The bottom line here is simple: Don't sign the admission paperwork for a patient in a nursing home. If the patient is able to sign for themselves, have them do so. If not, it's not your responsbility to sign the paperwork.

What if the elderly person in question can't take care of themselves and doesn't want to go into the nursing home?

FortWayne says

Jury isn't always better Dan. Everyone has their biases, difference is only in numbers. Judge 1 bias, jury... whole bunch of collective bias.

In a random sampling, having 12 decision makers with biases is better than having 1 decision maker with biases because in the set of 12 the biases conflict with one another.

zzyzzx says

What if the elderly person in question can't take care of themselves and doesn't want to go into the nursing home?

Zzyzzx, and elliemae will correct me if I'm wrong and I might be, it has something to do with billing for "Rehab".

Basically, if it's not Rehab, nursing home entry generally won't be paid for by medicare.

That's why you see 85 year olds with terminal illnesses, who would like to spend the next few months at home, denied Home Health Aides and forced to stay in a nursing home.

thunderlips11 says

zzyzzx says

What if the elderly person in question can't take care of themselves and doesn't want to go into the nursing home?

Zzyzzx, and elliemae will correct me if I'm wrong and I might be, it has something to do with billing for "Rehab".

Basically, if it's not Rehab, nursing home entry generally won't be paid for by medicare.

That's why you see 85 year olds with terminal illnesses, who would like to spend the next few months at home, denied Home Health Aides and forced to stay in a nursing home.

Perhaps I should rephrase the question. I know somebody who put their demented Mom in assisted living (dementia ward in assisted living). Her Mom keeps asking when she can go home, but she is too mad off to be taken car of at home because the dementia is bad enough that she needs 24/7 babysitting type of thing. It's my guess that the Mom didn't sign any paperwork. At the moment it's more of a theoretical question since they do have another 3.5 years of long term care insurance to burn through before it really becomes a problem, and at that point the person in question will be something like 88 or 89 and hopefully dead..

Ironman says

She most likely gave Power of Attorney and Healthcare Directives to one the kids, which gave them the power and control to make that medical decision for her.

True, that did happen, but then doesn't that pretty much automatically make the kid liable?