patrick.net

Offer accepted. No idea if this is a mistake or not, but the house is beautiful and being in it will make us happy. So the kiddo will go to very solid Cambrian elemntary and middle school. We are excited.

Congrats Menya.

congrats Menya, you made the right move.

Syphilis says

danacebi says

protip: being a good parent is best.

won’t happen.

being a good parent is hard.

buying an overpriced house in a good school district and letting the teachers take care of the kids is easier.
the sheeple have been brainwashed into thinking good schools are the answer to everything.

just like the sheeple were brainwashed into thinking home prices couldn’t go down.
what’s funny is that parents are so motivated to have “successful” kids, they have forgotten that raising your kid to care about people, have a sense of humor, a good attitude and great work ethic costs nothing.
these well-adjusted kids will have a much happier life than the over achieving, over ambitious alpha-dogs caught in the rat race of keeping up with the Jones’.

jokes on them.

Love your comment. Right on! Plus, some kids are sensitive souls and won't be able to handle the high pressure to achieve. What if they don't even want to go to college or want to be artists or healers/free spirits? There is room for us all out there :-)

This is not the Mandarin States of America. Nor is it the Brahmin States of America. Nor is it the API Test Score States of Cupertino Schools America.

This is the United States of America.

It sounds like OO may call himself Chinese, but he sounds more like an American Dad to me.

I pasted below what can happen when Tiger Parents act like Tiger Parents to their American kids. There's also several versions of the story along the CalTrain tracks near Gunn High School (Palo Alto).

OO says

I am Chinese too, but I am afraid to be living in a neighborhood with too many first gen Chinese immigrants, which I am as well. The reason being, I know how hard we as a group can save and how academically demanding we can be with our kids, I don’t want to be a Tiger dad whipping my kids’ ass against other Tiger dads and moms.

http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=5662

Sgt. Paul Henry outlined the evidence in support of the suicide conclusion at a press conference Thursday morning but he said police do not know why the 23-year-old graduate student took her life. He said no one interviewed reported her stressed or depressed and there was no indication she was pregnant.

Yitong Zhou, May's father, insisted last week his daughter was murdered and he said an autopsy in May arranged by his family in San Diego disclosed blunt force trauma to her head and extremities.

An autopsy by Dr. Kelly Arthur of the Sonoma County coroner's office found no outward signs of trauma to Zhou's body and toxicology test results determined Zhou had 6.1 milligrams per liter of diphenhydramine, the active ingredient in over-the-counter sleep medication in her system, Henry said.

To all my friends who are sitting on the Fence and are looking in Cambrian.

( Insider info)
This is one heck of a home,

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/15111-Stratford-Dr-95124/home/1333989

This guy has spent money on the home like anything

Years ago when my kid was little, we moved to San Leandro for the schools. By the time he was in 4th grade, the schools weren't so good anymore. We moved to Piedmont for 5th grade. Piedmont schools are among the best in the state. The city has insane property values and insane property taxes. We rented.

And fwiw, the are fair number of people in Piedmont who end up sending their kids to private school anyway.

PasadenaNative says

Right on! Plus, some kids are sensitive souls and won’t be able to handle the high pressure to achieve.

Vodka is a choice of stress relief in Cupertino.

Menya says

Offer accepted. No idea if this is a mistake or not, but the house is beautiful and being in it will make us happy. So the kiddo will go to very solid Cambrian elemntary and middle school. We are excited.

You are lucky, you did not try anywhere in 95014 or 95129. The market is damn hot that all the house here seem to fly in 1 day, with 80-100K over asking. Obviously, the houses are the standard pieces of crap - 1950's issue. minimal to no upgrades.

Look at this: http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/1042-Corvette-Dr-95129/home/794170

Date Event Price Appreciation Source
Apr 05, 2011 Sold (Public Records) $956,000 -- Public Records
Apr 05, 2011 Sold (MLS) (Sold) $956,000 -- Inactive MLSListings #81108395
Mar 05, 2011 Pending (Pending (Do Not Show)) -- -- Inactive MLSListings #81108395
Feb 24, 2011 Listed (Active) $878,000 -- Inactive MLSListings #81108395

desibaba says

Look at this

Or this... low 200s to low 800s (3x) in 10 years... good luck with that one.
Did school scores go up as much as well ? Naaaaa! your dreaming, LOL!

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/1132-Miller-Ave-95129/home/1076090

Property History for 1132 MILLER Ave

Date Event Price Appreciation Source
Apr 14, 2011 Sold (MLS) (Sold) $920,000 --
Mar 23, 2011 Pending (Pending Without Release)
Mar 16, 2011 Listed (Active)
Feb 23, 2006 Sold (Public Records) $853,000 13.0%/yr Public Records
Jun 23, 1995 Sold (Public Records) $231,000 -- Public Records

This is the best thread so far...reviving it so that more people can conribute about what they think about schools and stuff.

"Should I pay for mortgage or for a private school?"

1. Pay at least 700K for a house to live in an area where she can go to public school
2. Pay 450K to live in area where she needs to go to a private school (which is ~12-15K a year)
3. Rent 2K to live in area where she needs to go to a private school (which is ~12-15K a year)
4. Rent 3.5K where she can go to public school

5. rent cheap and spend the money saved on a private tutor

As others have said, this is an interesting thread for me on many levels. Some of the comments are way off-kilter here too.

Im very active in education, serving on the local school board. I went to public K-8, a very good private all boys school 9-12, and state universities for both undergrad and MBA. Ive met really smart people in public schools, and private schools. Ive also met some not so smart people in public and private.

Having recently bought a place, I have come to the conclusion that buying (preferably) or renting in a good public school system is the better alternative. My K-8 experience was in a middle to upper middle class neighborhood, and 9-12 I went to a very upper class, sheltered private school. Sure, a number of my classmates went to Ivies, or top private and state universities. A number also went to lower quality private or state schools. I got a great education. What I was missing is the interaction with kids that were not the same as me.

Private school tuition is rising rapidly. If you have two kids, you are looking at a good $600K K-12. Considering that is the price of a house in a lot of places, why would you consider this? There are lots of very good public school systems in CA. You are locking in on the price of a home for 30 yrs with a mortgage, part of which includes the cost of the school systems. Plus, you get to deduct your property taxes...cant deduct private school tuition.

The comment "Most public school districts in California rely on property taxes...which are based on bubble house prices. Pop the bubble and public education gets the pain." is incorrect. All public school systems, with the exception of basic aid districts (very wealthy like Laguna Beach) receive close to the same amount of state funding. The formula is determined by the state, not by where you live. The Serrano case means that all school districts receive ADA (average daily attendance) funding within a couple of hundred dollars of each other from the state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serrano_v._Priest It is city governments whose funding is determined by the wealth of the area. Your property taxes have little effect on this.

I prefer buying in a good to very good school system. But I also recommend getting very active too as a parent in your kids' education. Ultimately, that, as well as a good local school board that hires excellent administrators is what makes a public school system great, or can make it crappy. Hold teachers and principals accountable. Build great facilities to support the education your kids are receiving.

Junkmail's comments are dead-on. There is too much pressure put on kids to succeed these days. If you focus in on the social, emotional, and physical changes that kids go through, especially in their teenage years, they will do well in school. Otherwise, you risk having a bunch of misguided, poorly adjusted students.

Waitingtobuy says

. Otherwise, you risk having a bunch of misguided, poorly adjusted students.

describes some of the posters on patnet.

It might cost almost $400K to send your kid to Harker. It might cost a premium of $400K to buy a house in the Cupertino/West SJ/PA/LAH (best school districts) compared to the neighboring cheaper cities (and it will mostly be a dump with multiple offers for the 1.3M++ price range).
So, another option is to buy in a school district with low APIs (prices are well down and you might get a good house), send your kid to public schools there (silicon valley schools are safe, no guns etc so far). And spend the $400K you saved on tutoring and sports training etc to make sure that your kid comes in at the top 5% to get into UC?

It is nonsense that the top public schools send as many kids to the Ivy leagues. Harker sends a third to a half of its class to the top tier schools (Ivies+Stanford+MIT), which is 50+ kids. THe best high schools rararely send over a dozen to these schools, in spite of graduating classes three times Harkers' size.

3-year Matriculation Rates at Mountain View High School
=====================
7- Stanford
5- Upenn
2- Harvard
3- Brown
5 - Columbia
6- Cornell
2- Princeton
1- Dartmouth
2- MIT
-------
33

So 11 kids/year went to Ivy league schools (+Stanford) per year, from Mountain View High School. 25 a year are National Merit Semifinalists.

A sizeable number went to other well-respected schools:
2- Duke
UCBerkeley – 46
Cal Poly – 34
UCLA – 27
Other UC’s – 100+

Put differently, if your kid can be in the top ten at MVHS (from a diverse class of 400-450 kids), you’re pretty well set for Ivy league admission. They do offer all 25 AP courses, and a huge number of electives, so exposure or opportunity should not be an issue. At Harker, the number for Ivies is likely in the 40-50 range. It is likely almost as hard to be in that top 50 as it is to be in the top 10 at MVHS, although the culture at the private school likely offers fewer distractions.

Source: http://www.challengeteam.org/Documents/MVHS%20School%20Profile%202013-14.pdf

For Los Altos High School (often ranked in the top 10 schools in the state, and in the same school district as MVHS), the numbers are similar:

3-year Matriculation Rates
=====================
15- Stanford (faculty kids "quota", I'd venture to guess)
1- Upenn
1- Harvard
2- Brown
1 - Columbia
5- Cornell
2- Princeton
2- Dartmouth
6- MIT
-------
35

http://www.mvla.net/view/13617.pdf

js27 says

It is nonsense that the top public schools send as many kids to the Ivy leagues. Harker sends a third to a half of its class to the top tier schools (Ivies+Stanford+MIT), which is 50+ kids. THe best high schools rararely send over a dozen to these schools, in spite of graduating classes three times Harkers' size.

But how much of that is correlation and not causation? The old money families would get into the Ivies wherever they went to high school.

It's not like W. was a top notch student...

Why not do both? What good is a great education, if you're ashamed of your slouchy parent picking you up in a used car, then driving you back to the extended stay Quality Inn?
Or check your White privlege and send an inner city kid that "Good School" disctricts rob of an equal education.
Did I say it right Marcus?

You folks have excellent income. In your scenario the best option is to go with whatever option gives you comfort. Raising a child is not an easy task, they require a lot of time and attention and expenses, and stability. As a parent who has raised a family, I would recommend to go with whatever you can comfortably do with single income, just don't stretch yourself thin. Because unexpected expenses will come, a lot of new stress will arise. Having to not worry about mortgage will keep your relationship a lot more stable and you much happier as a family.

If you can buy and be comfortable, buy, with family that is a much easier in a long run than renting. If you were single that would have been a different story.

Hope this helps.

Option 2 could be much better than option 1, it is a smaller mortgage with a $12,000/year for private school. You can look at it as you are investing 12k into your child, instead of paying it to the bloodsucking bank in interest over next 30 years. Because if you are going with a loan, your entire payment for first 20 years will be interest only for most part.

Now I'm curious. So what option did Menya go with? I'm hoping option 1.

Edit: Never mind. Read the posts above after making this comment.

FortWayne says

Option 2 could be much better than option 1, it is a smaller mortgage with a $12,000/year for private school. You can look at it as you are investing 12k into your child, instead of paying it to the bloodsucking bank in interest over next 30 years. Because if you are going with a loan, your entire payment for first 20 years will be interest only for most part.

Not saying buying is better, but I think the above logic is flawed. At current low mortgage rates, the payment is not all interest--not by a long shot. It's more like 50 principal/50 (interest + property tax).

I'm adding your story to my long list of reasons not to have kids.

They said "pay", not "borrow".
So with that kinda cash they can do whatever.

Not all Ivy leagues are alike. They are tier-1 Ivy leagues, they are called HYP (harvard, yale and princeton). If you are looking for a job at McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, Blackstone, KKR, yes, HYP is the stepping stone. The proportion of tier-2 Ivy admits to that of total Ivys that a school has sent is very high at schools like Harker. So, don't pay top dollar for "Ivy": look for tier-1 Ivies that a particular school has sent.

BTW, Cornell, an Ivy league, is called poor man's Ivy on the east coast.

Same with companies: there are tier-1 companies. Tier-1 companies love to recruit students from tier-1 Ivy schools. It is true that McKinsey recruits from tier-2 Ivys like Duke, Columbia, etc. Tier 1 companies recruiting at tier-2 Ivies is like Harker sending to tier-2 Ivys.

Tier 1a Investment Banking(IB): Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley
Tier 1b IB: JP Morgan
Tier 2a: Citi, Barclays, credit suissie
Tier 2b: UBS, Duetsche Bank
Tier 3: Wells, HSBC, Nomura, etc.

Just working at Citi does not make you a top tier IB guy, any more than going to duke does make ya top tier Ivy. Yes, there are outliers; even these outliers have to do with the family pedigree. For instance, Brown used to recruit kids of famous hollywood actors, actresses, dumb kids of billionaires. And Goldman Sachs love to hair that dumb kid from Brown; this is an outlier.

Consulting:

Tier 1: McKinsey, Bain, Boston/BCG. Even here, McKinsey > Bain/BCG

Private Equity:

Tier 1: Blackstone, KKR, etc

MBA schools:
Tier 1: Harvard, Stanford
Tier 1.5: Wharton, which is called MBA Factory these days.
Next tier: Chicago, Northwestern, Columbia, MIT

Law Schools:

Tier 1: HYS: Harvard, Yale, Princeton
Next tier: T14 schools minus Tier 1.

When you don't have any pedigree beyond the school--and this is the case with the majority of American population including immigrants, you have to scheme to top tier Ivies, top tier IB/Consulting/PE, etc. This is a very hard game. Most of the time, most of us don't know how this layered system works. From the outside, every Ivy appears to on par with every other Ivy; every IB job appears like every other IB job.

Just go to collegboard.com, wallstreetoasis.com, to see how some kids/parents have been trying to scheme to get to the top (the top money making potential. not so much of learning/intellectuality).

Tier 1: ASSHOLES!
Tier 2: ASSHOLES!
Tier2a: ASSHOLES!
Tier 14: ASSHOLES!