patrick.net

Lips and Bob would explain this by the subsidies got smaller?

Alright, but a plane ticket inflation adjusted for the '60s was so much more expensive than it is today. Part of how they made up for it was giving first-class service even in coach.

Interesting Atlantic article about gov't deregulation and internet price competition: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/how-airline-ticket-prices-fell-50-in-30-years-and-why-nobody-noticed/273506/

We can get nostalgic for cold bottomless champagne and hot bottomless stewardesses, but you can still get that in first class and pay about what they paid back then. As for people dressing to go on a flight, it's no longer special and Americans are slobs now.

indigenous says

Lips and Bob would explain this by the subsidies got smaller?

Huge Bailouts and the fantastic special treatment for avgas subsidy. Not to mention the TSA Subsidy, the airports subsidy, the mass transit and infrastructure around the airport subsidy, etc.

Philistine says

We can get nostalgic for cold bottomless champagne and hot bottomless stewardesses, but you can still get that in first class and pay about what they paid back then. As for people dressing to go on a flight, it's no longer special and Americans are slobs now.

Agreed with the last sentence. Here in Buenos Aries today, every man - Economy or First Class, has a blazer, cardigan or dress shirt with loafers or oxfords. Maybe a few 20-year olds in "dress" sneakers. On my last flight, of maybe 100 people and 50 adult males, 48 were dressed 'business casual'. Maybe 2 were wearing a t-shirt or sweatshirt.

Philistine says

We can get nostalgic for cold bottomless champagne and hot bottomless stewardesses, but you can still get that in first class and pay about what they paid back then. As for people dressing to go on a flight, it's no longer special and Americans are slobs now.

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

Food? Drink? Stewardesses slobbering in your lap and begging to suck your dick?

Sure, all have their appeal.

But check out THE SPACE between the seats! You could drive a bus through there.

Man, now that's travel!

No thanks. I'll take the cheap fares, and let the 90 year old stewardess suck my dick.

The 90 year old stews will take out their dentures.

Man, now that's suction.

thunderlips11 says

Huge Bailouts and the fantastic special treatment for avgas subsidy. Not to mention the TSA Subsidy, the airports subsidy, the mass transit and infrastructure around the airport subsidy, etc.

Don't know about the gas subsides.

But calling TSA a subsidy is absurd. It is a charade that lines the pocket of Mihael Chernoff.

Is Israel has a far more effective terrorism program at a fraction of the cost.

In any case it is not the airlines purview to guard against terrorism.

I'd be happy if they brought back the free first, checked bag. Senators to airlines: Free the checked baggage.
The senators say bag fees have increased the number of carry-on bags by 27 percent, a figure that not only inspires competition for the on-flight overhead bin space, but also adds complexity to the security line.

indigenous says

But calling TSA a subsidy is absurd. It is a charade that lines the pocket of Mihael Chernoff.

Is Israel has a far more effective terrorism program at a fraction of the cost.

In any case it is not the airlines purview to guard against terrorism.

Israel uses racial and religious profiling to pinpoint potential terrorists. We foolishly don't.

Ironman says

stains from lunch

Maybe they weren't from lunch?

Flew from ATL to SFO using United airlines last week and had bulkhead seating. Had to be the worst seats I've had in recent memory. Made me appreciate Delta

Flew back on American, which was slightly better but still not as good as Delta.

Ironman says

flew last week on vacation

Bullshit. You can't afford the airfare, and your fat ass can't fit in the seat. The only thing you did was go through security making innuendos about having a bomb so that the TSA would frisk you.

thunderlips11 says

Agreed with the last sentence. Here in Buenos Aries today, every man - Economy or First Class, has a blazer, cardigan or dress shirt with loafers or oxfords. Maybe a few 20-year olds in "dress" sneakers. On my last flight, of maybe 100 people and 50 adult males, 48 were dressed 'business casual'. Maybe 2 were wearing a t-shirt or sweatshirt.

But this is old school European class, although we are all supposed to pretend these folks are some magical new group of minorities called Hispanic or Latino.

Just noticed the high heels in the pictures as well. Timely as A firm that sent home a temp without pay for refusing to wear high heels has changed its policy. London receptionist Nicola Thorp, 27, says she was told to wear shoes with a "2in to 4in heel" when she arrived at finance company PwC in December. When she refused and was sent home she set up a petition calling for the law on dress code to be changed.

Ironman says

You would never know pussy boy, because every time you came to NJ, you hid like a little child and never had the meeting I requested. Even when you were invited to our July 4th party when you were here, you hid out just like the true, immature pussy that you are, and never showed up.

Oh really, I must have missed that invitation. Luckily another July 4th is just around the corner. How about you reply with an invitation that gives me your address, driving directions from I95, and a time. Oh, did you not realize that it's trivially easy to call your bluff, you goat-fucking moron?

By the way, in case you don't know what an invitation looks like, here's an example. Notice it gives you the address of the party. Put your address there, unless of course, you are a lying little pussy.

Ironman says

You missed the invitation??? Really??

You picked the date.... Are you suffering from amnesia? From the Patnet history:

Yeah honey, but you never replied with your home address, so what was I suppose to do? Visit every NJ turnpike rest stop and look for the glory holes?

It's not my fault you pissed your pants, ran away, and hid. But hey, here's your chance to man up. Just give me your address and I'll make the effort to go up there.

Ironman says

Yep, and my family would STILL love to meet a true psychopath, but you'll chicken out again, just like the other four opportunities...

Oh honey, you are chickening out right now just like you did every time. How the hell can I be the one chickening of coming to your house when you are the one refusing to give the address of your house. I don't think you understand how reality works.

You are dropping a shit in your pants right now as we have this conversation. It's so sad. So pathetic. Everyone knows you are a coward and would dare to talk shit to anyone in real life out of fear of being beaten up. You are the poster boy for anonymous coward.

indigenous says

Lips and Bob would explain this by the subsidies got smaller?

If you don't know what you are talking about then it is best not to speak. Airlines were government regulated until Carter deregulated them. So were trains, ships, and trucks. The government set the routes and prices. Very generous prices. It was damn expensive to fly pre deregulation. I flew business trips a lot in the 70's (anyone remember Braniff, Eastern, Emerald, Frontier, Mohawk, Piedmont, USair?). I never got food fit for the elite or anything close. It was mostly business travellers, you just didn't see that many vacationers in those days. Families with children very rarely. By 1970 only something like 15% of people in the US had ever flown on a plane. There were 100k domestic passenger miles (in millions) in 1970 vs 600k today. A coach ticket in the 70's cost what a business class ticket is today if not more. Some routes much more. Google it, you will get hundreds of hits saying airfares are half of pre deregulation prices. If people want the good old days seating/service/meals then they should pony up the good old days prices and fly business/first class. Otherwise stop whining.

Ass, gas, or grass no one rides free.

bob2356 says

Airlines were government regulated until Carter deregulated them.

bob2356 says

The government set the routes and prices.

That is my point. The subsidies got smaller.

You and Lips were arguing the other day that airlines are heavily subsidized. I don't see that.

indigenous says

That is my point. The subsidies got smaller.

You and Lips were arguing the other day that airlines are heavily subsidized. I don't see that.

If subsides got smaller, then airlines would have to charge more for tickets. Rising subsidies would allow lower prices. If airline tickets included the full cost of running the aviation system only millionaires could afford to fly.

Airline travel has always been heavily subsidized starting with the airline mail routes (and air mail scandal). Everyone went over the various airline subsidies in great detail for you and yet somehow you can't see it. Amazing. Setting ticket prices high wasn't a subsidy. If you think so then you just don't know what the word subsidy means. Setting routes isn't a subsidy either, but it heavily affects ticket prices.

There are many factors behind falling ticket prices. Many related to deregulation, some are not. Bigger planes, smaller crews, hub and spoke route system. heavy use of computers, higher loads (aka more crowded), self check in, multiple fees, no food, the list goes on. All these can happen without affecting the subsidies to airlines. Some reductions in price are from raising subsides. Like TSA which is 25% funded from ticket sales surcharge and 75% funded from general taxes. Prior to 9/11 airlines paid for all of security.

Viewing the entire world on any subject and only being able to see a single data point must be an interesting way to go through life.

bob2356 says

Airlines were government regulated until Carter deregulated them. So were trains, ships, and trucks. The government set the routes and prices. Very generous prices. It was damn expensive to fly pre deregulation. I flew business trips a lot in the 70's (anyone remember Braniff, Eastern, Emerald, Frontier, Mohawk, Piedmont, USair?). I never got food fit for the elite or anything close. It was mostly business travellers, you just didn't see that many vacationers in those days. Families with children very rarely. By 1970 only something like 15% of people in the US had ever flown on a plane. There were 100k domestic passenger miles (in millions) in 1970 vs 600k today. A coach ticket in the 70's cost what a business class ticket is today if not more. Some routes much more. Google it, you will get hundreds of hits saying airfares are half of pre deregulation prices. If people want the good old days seating/service/meals then they should pony up the good old days prices and fly business/first class. Otherwise stop whining.

Same goes for stock brokers who charged ridiculous commissions.
Bottom line.........deregulation benefits the consumer.

bob2356 says

If airline tickets included the full cost of running the aviation system only millionaires could afford to fly.

True because you think it is true?

bob2356 says

. Everyone went over the various airline subsidies in great detail for you and yet somehow you can't see it.

Not true, did not see it because no one did it.

bob2356 says

Setting ticket prices high wasn't a subsidy. If you think so then you just don't know what the word subsidy means. Setting routes isn't a subsidy either, but it heavily affects ticket prices.

Same difference. Monopolies only exist through government. The post office is subsidized but it is also a monopoly. Would the post office be able to compete if not subsidized through being a monopoly.
bob2356 says

Some reductions in price are from raising subsides.

For example?

bob2356 says

Like TSA which is 25% funded from ticket sales surcharge and 75% funded from general taxes. Prior to 9/11 airlines paid for all of security.

The one legitimate role of government is rule of law. Yet you somehow assign that cost to private airlines. Have you been taking logic classes from the Wogster?

bob2356 says

Viewing the entire world on any subject and only being able to see a single data point must be an interesting way to go through life.

Back at ya

Strategist says

Same goes for stock brokers who charged ridiculous commissions.

Bottom line.........deregulation benefits the consumer.

Yup mutual funds are really just a way to generate commissions.

Same goes for Real Estate and public unions

But in effect they are subsidies because they don't have to compete.