patrick.net

www.youtube.com/embed/m3yesvvYEvs

And what terrible burden have they brought on the US apart from putting salad on plates, doing gardening, making construction cheaper...

Why can't the millions of unemployed whites, blacks, and others do these jobs?

Illegal immigrants were very useful helping to deunionize and prevent new unions in the 1980s. A meatpacker used to make in the mid-teens in today's money, plus benefits. All throughout the midwest, Whties and Blacks used to queue up for hours when a plant announced they were hiring. So much for a job they won't do! Now that Corporations have used illegals to crush wages, they make jack shit.

Besides, Bill Clinton disagrees with you.

By the way, these kind of posts are proof the Democratic Party isn't the party of the Working Class anymore.

20

MisdemeanorRebel 2016 Sep 16, 4:01pm

Jobs Americans won't do - but did them in my lifetime when they paid a living wage.

Doesn't Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Australia, etc. pay like $15/hr + benefits to McD's burger flippers?

21

OneTwo 2016 Sep 16, 4:19pm

Why can't the millions of unemployed whites, blacks, and others do these jobs?

Because they don't want to do that kind of labor in large enough numbers for the money that is paid apparently.

Whties and Blacks used to queue up for hours when a plant announced they were hiring. So much for a job they won't do! Now that Corporations have used illegals to crush wages, they make jack shit.

And they still would, but quite obviously factory work is not the same as working in the salad bowl for example.

22 vanbomel 2016 Sep 16, 4:56pm

Nobody was talking about bigotry here until you brought that up. Trump is no bigot and neither are the majority of his supporters.

Hillary coined the term deplorable. She defined the term as meaning bigots. If the discussion is about a group of people called Les Deplorables, then we're talking about bigots.

23

OneTwo 2016 Sep 16, 5:11pm

Trump is no bigot and neither are the majority of his supporters.

He isn't? I guess that depends on how you define bigot. OED: bigot: In extended use: a fanatical adherent or believer; a person characterized by obstinate, intolerant, or strongly partisan beliefs.

24

neplusultra57 2016 Sep 16, 5:14pm

haven't the number of illegal immigrants been declining recently? And what terrible burden have they brought on the US apart from putting salad on plates, doing gardening, making construction cheaper... It's not really the most pressing of issues - it's just a lazy go to issue for a want to be demagogue.

Yes, they have been declining since the '08 crash and have gone net negative. But that's not what makes them a meaningful topic to those who support a spoiled rich Oligarch demagogue. His premise is "everything is wrong", and nothing else really matters, obviously, just look at his vacuous remedy.

As for ACA, what's the Trump alternative as it seems non existent?

Again, this doesn't matter. Everything he says subsequent to his complaint is unimportant. To those who yearn for revolution, the revolution is the point: do something even if it's wrong. Do something even if it's nothing but complaint. Trump supporters would vote for a fire hydrant if it contained a speaker that played the same vulgar complaint 24/7.

So many Americans just want to throw out the entire deck of cards in order to send a message to the pricks that ostensibly run this country. The laughable truth is that they think the fool who will take over will be different than the pricks that got us here. They themselves are the fools in that bargain. Trump already offered to sub out the running of the country to Kasich; that shows the depth of his vision: he's just here for the fun of the run. If Trump wins, the Republicans will run this country the same way they always have: tax cuts for the rich and trickle-down trade. If there is a revolution it will come against the Trump government.

25

neplusultra57 2016 Sep 16, 5:28pm

Quigley says

Trump is no bigot and neither are the majority of his supporters.

He isn't? I guess that depends on how you define bigot. OED: bigot: In extended use: a fanatical adherent or believer; a person characterized by obstinate, intolerant, or strongly partisan beliefs.

Of course Trump is a bigot. Of course, half his supporters are bigots. So what? The question is: what is his plan? His plan is to complain and offer an ever-changing stab in the dark at whatever moves across his field of vision. So far he promises: to bring back 25 million jobs from China faster than it took to lose them; to know more about ISIS than "the Generals" do and to wipe it out in about a week; to build a wall which Congress will not fund for one twentieth of what real estimates claim it would cost; balance the budget in ten years despite huge spending military and infrastructure spending along with deep tax cuts while utilizing the option of defaulting of sovereign debt payments. Oh, the bigotry does have an impact. All his nominees for SCOTUS will be certified GOP bigots. I guess that matters. I forgot.

26

Shaman 2016 Sep 16, 10:13pm

bigot: In extended use: a fanatical adherent or believer; a person characterized by obstinate, intolerant, or strongly partisan beliefs

Thanks, you just described yourself to a T.
Add stupid and pigheaded and it'll be like looking in a mirror!

27

OneTwo 2016 Sep 16, 10:35pm

Thanks, you just described yourself to a T.

Add stupid and pigheaded and it'll be like looking in a mirror!

You're Ironman, aren't you? Or are you both as equally childish?

28 anonymous 2016 Sep 16, 10:41pm

Rashomon

29

OneTwo 2016 Sep 16, 10:42pm

You don't like my picture? That's a shame.

30

Shaman 2016 Sep 17, 9:10am

You're Ironman, aren't you? Or are you both as equally childish?

Way to run away from the argument when you're losing harshly! But you never were that smart, Tatty.
Want to explain how you're not also a bigot by your own definition? I thought not. "Bigot" is a catch-all term that can refer to anyone who has a strong opinion about nearly anything. As such it is meaningless. I'm also a bigot against Satanists like you. I think anyone who is NOT a bigot is a real wimpy push-over who stands for absolutely nothing!
So quiet with your attempts to shame people by calling them "bigot." What a meaningless and useless designation! Might as well be calling me "patriot" for all the offense I am going to take!

31

OneTwo 2016 Sep 17, 9:18am

Way to run away from the argument when you're losing harshly! But you never were that smart, Tatty.

Hmmm, 'tatty.' Strange that Ironman just started using that in another thread...
Quigley says

Want to explain how you're not also a bigot by your own definition? I thought not. "Bigot" is a catch-all term that can refer to anyone who has a strong opinion about nearly anything. As such it is meaningless. I'm also a bigot against Satanists like you. I think anyone who is NOT a bigot is a real wimpy push-over who stands for absolutely nothing!

Satanist? Dear, oh dear. And as for bigot, l think you need to learn the general usage of the word, CIC, before you start spouting off.

32

OneTwo 2016 Sep 17, 9:19am

Ironman says

You're tatupu70, aren't you? Just as Trollish...

Duh, obviously not. I see you're not denying you're Quigley.

33

OneTwo 2016 Sep 17, 9:24am

So quiet with your attempts to shame people by calling them "bigot."

People? You mean calling Trump a bigot? I think you may also recall calling me a bigot though, so...

34

MisdemeanorRebel 2016 Sep 17, 11:50am

thunderlips11 is deplorable says

Why can't the millions of unemployed whites, blacks, and others do these jobs?

Because they don't want to do that kind of labor in large enough numbers for the money that is paid apparently.

Yep, because big business has gerryrigged the labor market by pushing for immigration, and hardly ever is a large employer imprisoned or shut down for hiring illegal immigrants. Since they're as likely to be arrested or fined millions as I am for removing the mattress tag on my mattress and being taken away by the Mattress Police.

Then on the other hand you have outsourcing where businesses can actually claim a tax deduction for their moving abroad expenses, just as if they were moving across town, fire all their employees, and import with little to no tariff. On top of it all they squirrel the money away abroad, which is much easier when their center of manufacturing is abroad.

So we lose the property taxes, the higher wage employment, corporate taxation, and the taxes that come from taxing the worker. I'm shocked we have $20T+ deficits.
All this for a slight increase in ROI, leaving a trail of destroyed communities.

And, the less good paying manufacturing jobs, the less "salad bars" have to compete with other, better paying employers of unskilled workers, so the pressure is lessened on them to keep wages high.

The standard of living for the bottom workers has been collapsing for decades. The top quintile is getting all benefits. Hence massive increases in inequality.

And the Democrat party, just like the Blairtard wing of Labour, doesn't give a shit, because the top quintile is the professional vote they count on.

Whties and Blacks used to queue up for hours when a plant announced they were hiring. So much for a job they won't do! Now that Corporations have used illegals to crush wages, they make jack shit.

And they still would, but quite obviously factory work is not the same as working in the salad bowl for example.

They still would, these jobs paid the modern equivalent of $15/hr + benefits in 1980. Not enough to be a lord, but enough to live modestly in small midwestern city and maybe even drive down to the Gulf for a vacation.

Again, how can Denmark, Australia, etc. pay this amount to their McD's workers right now, but we can't? In fact Denmark might be closer to $20. Fewer natural resources, less overall wealth than the USA, too.

When the Democratic Party tries to Gaslight working classes on Trade, Massive Scale Corporate Inversion, Tax Avoidance, and General Economic Conditions, it can't claim to be the party of the poor.

We already know why so many refugees were sent to Idaho, Chobani.

35

OneTwo 2016 Sep 17, 12:03pm

And, the less good paying manufacturing jobs, the less "salad bars" have to compete with other, better paying employers of unskilled workers, so the pressure is lessened on them to keep wages high.

I'm not sure what salad bars have to do with anything. I was talking about the salad bowl farming area. It's a good long time since whites worked the farmland there.

36

MisdemeanorRebel 2016 Sep 17, 12:26pm

I'm not sure what salad bars have to do with anything. I was talking about the salad bowl farming area. It's a good long time since whites worked the farmland there.

Why do farmers get special treatment other businesses don't get?

How come the guy who owns the Pizzeria doesn't get to say "I wanna pay below the minimum wage, and the government has to help me with a special program!"

Goodwill is the only one I can think of where this is systemic.

But that's neither here not there. White and Blacks did these jobs before the government turned it's back on the rural American poor in favor of wealthy Lettuce Plantation Owners.

37

marcus 2016 Sep 17, 12:43pm

8e6e0 says

Can You Feel The Revolution In The Air?

To me it feels more like de-evolution in the air. But this too shall pass.

Becoming more or less "multicultural" isn't something that we democratically choose (at least not now). It's very simple biology. The U.S. defined itself and opened it's arms to different cultures and races long ago. IT's far too late to change that now. At this point, caucasians (more specifically non-latino whites) are already less than 50% of the new births in this country. In a few generations people will look back at this time and laugh at this stupidity. That is, they will laugh at what Trump was able to do with his appeals to making America white again.

38

Tenpoundbass 2016 Sep 17, 2:01pm

I was there last night, when he asked how many Cubans are in the audience over 60% of the place raised their hands.

I would say Trump has Florida. Oh and the White ACLU Of South Florida and the White BLM protesters were adorably stupid.

39

marcus 2016 Sep 17, 3:32pm

Cubans always vote republican. This is nothing new. Did they deliver Florida for Romney ? Or McCain ? Maybe some of them or a lot of them are excited about Trump. That doesn't mean they will vote for him in any bigger numbers than they voted for McCain or Romney. As for the redneck racist segment in general, they clearly aren't going to vote for Trump in any larger numbers than they voted against Obama.

So, you need to ask yourself, how many of the old jewish voters, and the moderate "independents" (who are actually semi republican), and moderate democrats will Trump get?

We will see. IT might be close. Or, perhaps many of those who want to pull the trigger and vote for Trump, just won't be able to take that risk, when it comes down to it on election day.

40 anonymous 2016 Sep 17, 4:19pm

marcus says

just won't be able to take that risk

so hillary is without risk? less than trump?

fascinate us, public school teacher.

41 anonymous 2016 Sep 17, 5:56pm

landtof says

â†“ Dislike (1)

wow, what a well though out response marcus.

42

Y 2016 Sep 17, 7:01pm

Sounds racist to me...
marcus says

Cubans always vote republican.

43

Shaman 2016 Sep 17, 7:48pm

Ranina ranina says

Sounds racist to me...

marcus says

Cubans always vote republican.

I work with a Cuban who is a YUUUGE Trump fan.

44 freespeechforever 2016 Sep 17, 8:51pm

Trump/Pence 2016

45

MisdemeanorRebel 2016 Sep 17, 8:59pm

And what terrible burden have they brought on the US apart from putting salad on plates, doing gardening, making construction cheaper...

When they fall off a roof, their "employer" who is paying them cash off the books takes no responsibility, so he goes to the ER where taxpayers, who have seen their wages drop due to competition (esp. in working class areas) from illegals, end up footing the bill.

Essentially a subsidy for shady contractors.

They also put upward demand on housing, particularly again in working class neighborhoods where they add to the competition for affordable housing, raising rents and prices.

Also, they pay no state income tax, but their kids go to school. In states like Cali where you have controlled Property Tax values and schools get a bigger chunk of the budget from state revenue which in turn is quite dependent on income taxes, this is another subsidy.

You can see why landlords and employers love illegals: Crush wages, disclaim all worker's comp and place it on taxpayer, raise rents/home prices.

46

OneTwo 2016 Sep 17, 9:03pm

Ironman says

Sure thing Tatty... Last post you made on the old profile was Aug. 11th

You started this profile on Aug. 18th.

Wrong as usual. Is your fascination with this because you have so many alts on the go at the same time?

Ironman says

Rashomon

The Rashomon effect is the effect of the subjectivity of perception on recollection, by which observers of an event are able to produce substantially different but equally plausible accounts of it.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Rashomon

Wow, well googled. Thanks for telling me something I already knew. It's one of the greatest films of all time, but you're such an uneducated buffoon I'm sure you didn't know that.

47

MisdemeanorRebel 2016 Sep 17, 9:03pm

A Welfare State is incompatible with mass immigration.

I should point out during the "Malaise" in the late 70s, after paying for Vietnam and greatly expanding the welfare state, our National Debt was negligible.

Yet in Glorious Inevitable and Unstoppable Neoliberalism Era of Free Trade, Labor Market Arbitrage, and Low Taxes, we are now approaching a GDP-to-debt ratio of 100%.

There's a huge wealth transfer via unofficial and official government economic policy based on Globalization that is making the 1% super rich at the expense of the bottom 2/3.

48

Shaman 2016 Sep 17, 11:09pm

Duh, obviously not. I see you're not denying you're Quigley.

I actually had Ironman on ignore for a year or so when he was being unspeakably racist.
I might be a bigot, but I'm not racist.

49

Y 2016 Sep 18, 6:02am

Salad bars are the bastard spawn of salad bowls.
Now do you get it???