patrick.net

Hmmm...

I just don't have a clue what would hold ones attention in this culture.
Maybe promote FREE SPEECH more?

Going back to different categories on the home page so newbies can click on their choice?

You could put some of the naked pictures I have been posting here on the home page.

144 point font, top and center of main page:
LOOK! NO CLICKBAIT!

Depends on what your goal for the site is. Who is your audience? What kind of users are you looking to attract? What do you envision these users doing once they're here?

I'm happy with the demographics as it is, median age 35, mostly male, talk about politics, economics, investing, tits.

I hope they get into discussions here. I want to make it super-simple for them to start posting, and compelling to continue.

I think the home page is kind of jumbled somehow, but can't quite explain it.

It's kind of chaotic the way it is now, I second the categories. It use to be about Housing and market, and evolved into politics and general bullshitting. There is way to much politics now and it drowns out everything else.

It would be nice if there were more PatNet users actively participating in conversations, but I think the trolls keep them from joining in. So the entire site is almost entirely composed of a dozen or so regular posters. Any forum needs to attract a larger range of participants. It's Metcalfe's law.

I think the best way to accomplish this is simply to have better, more interesting, and more productive conversations on PatNet, and that's up to us users. So many PatNet threads devolve into arguing over easily verified facts. For example, "climate change is real" vs "no, it's a hoax". Such arguments are just plain stupid at this point. You cannot have real debate and discussion if facts are replaced with pseudo-facts based on opinion. That's the number one flaw of PatNet.

Short of writing an A.I. to fact check every post and rate it's truthness, not truthiness, i.e. it's accuracy as well as how well written it is, I don't see a technological fix for this problem. It really comes down to the people on PatNet. It's like the old saying, a site's most valuable assets log off and go home every evening.

Great, now I want to write that A.I. I don't have nearly the time required to do so, but I'm now interested in the problem. This is going to bug me all day. This is the vex of being an engineer.

rando says

I'm happy with the demographics as it is, median age 35, mostly male, talk about politics, economics, investing, tits.

Are you trying to troll the SJWs? They are going to have a field day with that, you fucking white, middle-aged man.

PatNet, supporting the patriarchy since 2006.

Post this picture on the homepage today:

Yea we've been down this road before. You have to drain the swamp. Nobody wants to be subject to constant personal attacks and intentional derailment of discussion. It's off putting.

Freedom of Speech does not have to allow for personal attacks, anymore than it requires that people be allowed to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater.

what is the value in attaching User Names/ Profiles, to each post?

When I read reddit, I'm reading topics I'm interested in, and the comments. I don't know one single reddit username, honestly I'm not even certain what my own username is.

I'm just there for the ideas, and information, within the discussion.

The worst offender here at Patnet constantly attacks the users by name, likely because s/he cannot debate properly, so rather than pick apart an idea or assertion, they resort to littering threads with personal attacks

errc says

Who is your audience?

Patrick already has all the global idiots! LMAO

errc says

The worst offender here at Patnet constantly attacks the users by name, likely because s/he cannot debate properly, so rather than pick apart an idea or assertion, they resort to littering threads with personal attacks

That's rule +1 on patnet. More outrageous laughter!

That's rule +1 on patnet. More outrageous laughter

----------

You are correct. I cannot speak for everyone, so if you're into that kind of stuff, I guess that's what you'll seek out.

I just don't understand why troll on internet message boards, and forums. What purpose does it serve, and how does anyone benefit?

Maybe the experiment in radically free speech has failed, and I do need to ban direct insults.

This is a big departure of course. How should I do that? I'm thinking just a link by each comment that people can click to report direct insults. So I would have to do moderation work and decide:

1. It's really a non-productive direct insult, and should be deleted and the user suspended for some amount of time.
2. It's not actually a direct insult, and the reporter's privilege of reporting insults should itself be suspended for some amount of time.

Sound good?

errc says

what is the value in attaching User Names/ Profiles, to each post?

I do think there is value in attaching usernames to posts and comments, so that you have some idea of a user's history, and so that the user feels a little pride in their reputation.

Those that come to this loony bin may not like the Left/Right political comments,depending on their ideology.
Why do SNOWFLAKES hate FREE SPEECH?

rando says

user feels a little pride in their reputation.

ASSHOLES!

The difference on Pnet of ignoring 2-3 specific users is pretty dramatic. The quality boost is significant (from gutter trash up to drunk fist fight).

I also agree that sections would be great: Econ Sci Polotics Humor

Each section should have its own top trending posts. Each few top trending post should be viewable on the home page.

Patrick, you also may consider curating a particular post of quality/value weekly. Topic of the week. Etc.

The above and curbing those voices which add very little are good steps to improving Pnet quality.

Thanks Rew, I appreciate the good feedback. I'll implement those within the next couple of days.

errc says

Yea we've been down this road before. You have to drain the swamp. Nobody wants to be subject to constant personal attacks and intentional derailment of discussion. It's off putting.

This isn't a special snowflakes forum. If you can't handle free speech, this isn't the site for you.

Don't worry, free speech will be well-protected, even if the views are far outside the Overton Window. It's only the ad hominem crap I'm going to get rid of.

Make the Free Speech slogan bigger. Make a bigger deal about this not being a politically correct forum. Use some of the slogans of the day, like "Not for Snowflakes", "Say WHATEVER You Want". Or appeal to an older time when men where respected. "A Real Man's Website".

Dan8267 says

rando says

I'm happy with the demographics as it is, median age 35, mostly male, talk about politics, economics, investing, tits.

Are you trying to troll the SJWs? They are going to have a field day with that, you fucking white, middle-aged man.

PatNet, supporting the patriarchy since 2006.

By the time I'm done, they're going to be calling it the Patrickarchy!

NuttBoxer says

errc says

Yea we've been down this road before. You have to drain the swamp. Nobody wants to be subject to constant personal attacks and intentional derailment of discussion. It's off putting.

This isn't a special snowflakes forum. If you can't handle free speech, this isn't the site for you.

I'm advocating Free Speech

You're advocating the stifling of Free Speech.

In the real world of Free Speech, you aren't allowed to make unfounded, false personal attacks.

Have you never heard of libel?

a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.

So there will be one new banned category of posts and comments: ad hominem

You may no longer attack the person themselves. Stick to attacks on their arguments.

Examples:

"You are a goat-fucker." = ad hominem, now forbidden

"Not even a Mormon would believe that." = attacking the argument, allowed

That's a slippery slope Patrick. I don't like Dan's endless goatfucker remarks, but I don't think I want to ban them. I support being able to say that Ironmoan (*) is a moron, or a Mormon, for that sake.

(*) I like that typo. From now he is a whiny little Ironmoan, just like he called me a whiny little girl ;)

justme says

That's a slippery slope Patrick.

Yep agreed. Don't let the goat-fucks and crybabies neuter you and this site.

So then include another sub forum where it's no holds barred. Call it "the penalty box" or something, where people can sit in their cages and fling feces at one another, or even just eat their own shit.

I'm of the opinion that if you want an actual Free Speech forum, where Free People are allowed to express their opinions, especially those that fall outside of the mainstream, you're going to need some degree of politeness or common courtesy, where libel is prohibited. Otherwise you get what we have here: people incapable of debating and discussing ideas thoroughly and honestly, will resort to personal attacks in a last ditch effort to silence that which needs to be heard/said the most.

I looked at the front page with images enabled again, and it is still reasonably clean, visually. Personally I will use the non-image version, though. In my book there are two main problems:

1. too many idiotic headlines. Seriously, people need to learn to write concise, accurate and DESCRIPTIVE headlines. Most headlines scream "DON'T READ THIS ILL-CONCEIVED DRIVEL".

2. too many idiotic posts by idiotic people. The volume that can be generated by idiots swamps the quality work. I support a limit of 1 thread created per person per day
(unless you are Patrick, some benefits must exist :)). Perhaps if you get 25 likes (of any kind) in a day, you can post another one.

ADDENDUM: Getting back to the original point of site visitor retention: Seeing three moronic headlines at the top of the site is a huge turnoff. No wonder people do not stay.

That is if you desire to

- capture new users

- retain them

- allow Free Speech for everyone

How is Free Speech hindered by disallowing Personal Attacks?

errc says

In the real world of Free Speech, you aren't allowed to make unfounded, false personal attacks.

Yes you are! But outside the internet, you better be able to back up your talk, or you might get punched in the head.

errc says

So then include another sub forum where it's no holds barred. Call it "the penalty box" or something

Done that. The new format is better.

Fuck you freedom haters, go build your own fucking sites.

errc says

How is Free Speech hindered by disallowing Personal Attacks?

Where else can we call someone a "fuckfaced nigger" without an instant ban? Where else can we call Ironman a got-fucker, or make jokes about Dan being a gay lover? Where else can we call tovacharpeter a spam-bot? Where else can ApocalypseFuck call Trump a cunt grabbing, fat-cheeto-faced, banking whore?

Don't let the "Free Speech Forum" text at the top go down in flames.

Is libel Free Speech?

If the answer is yes, what ways are you fighting against laws in place that disallow libel?

Let the courts deal with libel issues. If a crybaby wants to take a goat-fucker to court they are welcome to it.

errc says

Is libel Free Speech?

You're side-tracking the thread errc. In order for speech to be free, it must ALL be free, so yes.

So what can you do to fight for the right to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater, in the real world?

"Free Speech Forum"
Perhaps make it a gigantic banner across the top, it's obviously way to small.