patrick.net

Maybe the experiment in radically free speech has failed, and I do need to ban direct insults.

This is a big departure of course. How should I do that? I'm thinking just a link by each comment that people can click to report direct insults. So I would have to do moderation work and decide:

1. It's really a non-productive direct insult, and should be deleted and the user suspended for some amount of time.
2. It's not actually a direct insult, and the reporter's privilege of reporting insults should itself be suspended for some amount of time.

Sound good?

errc says

what is the value in attaching User Names/ Profiles, to each post?

I do think there is value in attaching usernames to posts and comments, so that you have some idea of a user's history, and so that the user feels a little pride in their reputation.

Those that come to this loony bin may not like the Left/Right political comments,depending on their ideology.
Why do SNOWFLAKES hate FREE SPEECH?

rando says

user feels a little pride in their reputation.

ASSHOLES!

The difference on Pnet of ignoring 2-3 specific users is pretty dramatic. The quality boost is significant (from gutter trash up to drunk fist fight).

I also agree that sections would be great: Econ Sci Polotics Humor

Each section should have its own top trending posts. Each few top trending post should be viewable on the home page.

Patrick, you also may consider curating a particular post of quality/value weekly. Topic of the week. Etc.

The above and curbing those voices which add very little are good steps to improving Pnet quality.

Thanks Rew, I appreciate the good feedback. I'll implement those within the next couple of days.

errc says

Yea we've been down this road before. You have to drain the swamp. Nobody wants to be subject to constant personal attacks and intentional derailment of discussion. It's off putting.

This isn't a special snowflakes forum. If you can't handle free speech, this isn't the site for you.

Don't worry, free speech will be well-protected, even if the views are far outside the Overton Window. It's only the ad hominem crap I'm going to get rid of.

Make the Free Speech slogan bigger. Make a bigger deal about this not being a politically correct forum. Use some of the slogans of the day, like "Not for Snowflakes", "Say WHATEVER You Want". Or appeal to an older time when men where respected. "A Real Man's Website".

Dan8267 says

rando says

I'm happy with the demographics as it is, median age 35, mostly male, talk about politics, economics, investing, tits.

Are you trying to troll the SJWs? They are going to have a field day with that, you fucking white, middle-aged man.

PatNet, supporting the patriarchy since 2006.

By the time I'm done, they're going to be calling it the Patrickarchy!

NuttBoxer says

errc says

Yea we've been down this road before. You have to drain the swamp. Nobody wants to be subject to constant personal attacks and intentional derailment of discussion. It's off putting.

This isn't a special snowflakes forum. If you can't handle free speech, this isn't the site for you.

I'm advocating Free Speech

You're advocating the stifling of Free Speech.

In the real world of Free Speech, you aren't allowed to make unfounded, false personal attacks.

Have you never heard of libel?

a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.

So there will be one new banned category of posts and comments: ad hominem

You may no longer attack the person themselves. Stick to attacks on their arguments.

Examples:

"You are a goat-fucker." = ad hominem, now forbidden

"Not even a Mormon would believe that." = attacking the argument, allowed

That's a slippery slope Patrick. I don't like Dan's endless goatfucker remarks, but I don't think I want to ban them. I support being able to say that Ironmoan (*) is a moron, or a Mormon, for that sake.

(*) I like that typo. From now he is a whiny little Ironmoan, just like he called me a whiny little girl ;)

justme says

That's a slippery slope Patrick.

Yep agreed. Don't let the goat-fucks and crybabies neuter you and this site.

So then include another sub forum where it's no holds barred. Call it "the penalty box" or something, where people can sit in their cages and fling feces at one another, or even just eat their own shit.

I'm of the opinion that if you want an actual Free Speech forum, where Free People are allowed to express their opinions, especially those that fall outside of the mainstream, you're going to need some degree of politeness or common courtesy, where libel is prohibited. Otherwise you get what we have here: people incapable of debating and discussing ideas thoroughly and honestly, will resort to personal attacks in a last ditch effort to silence that which needs to be heard/said the most.

I looked at the front page with images enabled again, and it is still reasonably clean, visually. Personally I will use the non-image version, though. In my book there are two main problems:

1. too many idiotic headlines. Seriously, people need to learn to write concise, accurate and DESCRIPTIVE headlines. Most headlines scream "DON'T READ THIS ILL-CONCEIVED DRIVEL".

2. too many idiotic posts by idiotic people. The volume that can be generated by idiots swamps the quality work. I support a limit of 1 thread created per person per day
(unless you are Patrick, some benefits must exist :)). Perhaps if you get 25 likes (of any kind) in a day, you can post another one.

ADDENDUM: Getting back to the original point of site visitor retention: Seeing three moronic headlines at the top of the site is a huge turnoff. No wonder people do not stay.

That is if you desire to

- capture new users

- retain them

- allow Free Speech for everyone

How is Free Speech hindered by disallowing Personal Attacks?

errc says

In the real world of Free Speech, you aren't allowed to make unfounded, false personal attacks.

Yes you are! But outside the internet, you better be able to back up your talk, or you might get punched in the head.

errc says

So then include another sub forum where it's no holds barred. Call it "the penalty box" or something

Done that. The new format is better.

Fuck you freedom haters, go build your own fucking sites.

errc says

How is Free Speech hindered by disallowing Personal Attacks?

Where else can we call someone a "fuckfaced nigger" without an instant ban? Where else can we call Ironman a got-fucker, or make jokes about Dan being a gay lover? Where else can we call tovacharpeter a spam-bot? Where else can ApocalypseFuck call Trump a cunt grabbing, fat-cheeto-faced, banking whore?

Don't let the "Free Speech Forum" text at the top go down in flames.

Is libel Free Speech?

If the answer is yes, what ways are you fighting against laws in place that disallow libel?

Let the courts deal with libel issues. If a crybaby wants to take a goat-fucker to court they are welcome to it.

errc says

Is libel Free Speech?

You're side-tracking the thread errc. In order for speech to be free, it must ALL be free, so yes.

So what can you do to fight for the right to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater, in the real world?

"Free Speech Forum"
Perhaps make it a gigantic banner across the top, it's obviously way to small.

Ad hominem, short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

Is there anything productive about retaining ad hominem attacks, aside from the little frisson of joy people get from a well-crafted putdown?

Maybe the whole site is really just about well-crafted putdowns and I'm on the wrong track here...

rando says

well-crafted putdowns

lol that's funny

Maybe the whole site is really just about well-crafted putdowns and I'm on the wrong track here...

------------

Maybe, but then encourage people to step their game up.

The personal attack material here is a crusty old record stuck on repeat. 1/10

Dan has probably went with goat fucker at least 1,000 times, and Ironman has posted that stupid picture of a pot head over 100 times

Obviously nobody is sticking around to see that tired old act stuck on repeat.

Barf

rando says

Don't worry, free speech will be well-protected, even if the views are far outside the Overton Window. It's only the ad hominem crap I'm going to get rid of.

Create a thunderdome for that :)

That way we can have our goat-fucking, didn't show at the Fort Lauderdale Restaurant threads for those who love them.

I fully support Patrick banning ad-homs. It doesn't matter whether right or left wing engages in this, the ad-homs add absolutely nothing to the conversation. For the record, I would say that the king of all ad-homs was Roberto Barabas and I can't say I miss his presence...

T L Lipsovich says

Create a thunderdome for that :)

Perhaps certain threads could be marked "ad hominem allowed" and kept off the home page, or at least kept below the fold.

rando says

Thanks Rew, I appreciate the good feedback. I'll implement those within the next couple of days.

Rew's just showing off! LOLjustme says

"DON'T READ THIS ILL-CONCEIVED DRIVEL".

That's the title of all my threads from this point forward!
...
If I say "ASSHOLES" it shouldn't insult anyone unless they are an ASSHOLE!
BAN me,I'm in a good humor.

rando says

Don't worry, free speech will be well-protected, even if the views are far outside the Overton Window. It's only the ad hominem crap I'm going to get rid of.

It's your right for sure but who do you think you are kidding..

Patricks "Free Speech Forum" dies this week....

Do libel laws, and the inability to yell "fire" in a crowded theater, hinder free speech?

Take the hypocritical "Free Speech Forum" down while you are at it.
Your site absolutely won't deserve those words at the top....

rando says

I do need to ban direct insults.

Define direct insult.

zzyzzx says

rando says

I do need to ban direct insults.

ridiculous

Make sure you remove the words "Free Speech Forum" first.

RIP Patrick's "Free Speech Forum"