patrick.net

P N Dr Lo R says

Dan8267 says

Christianity in the United States has not been kind. It has been violent, genocidal, and utterly despicable

and runs the hospitals, the shelters, missions, Salvation Army, Goodwill Industries and virtually any other benevolence you can think of while atheism does squat.

Pretty much every scientific and technological advancement in the past 100 years has been done by atheists, agnostics, or secularists. So yes, if we're counting the number of lives saved, my team is way ahead of yours.

More importantly saving the entire human race requires rejecting religion particularly Christianity. Your religion causes people who head policy to reject the truth of climate change and that endangers us all. Idiots like John Shimkus think that climate change can't harm us because his god promised Noah that the world won't be destroyed by flood, and this asshole heads the Subcommittee on Environment and the Economy. He's responsible for climate change policy.

Well, I can't even give you the blockquote here because of the stupid comment limit. So next post...

[stupid comment limit]

A Republican congressman hoping to chair the powerful House Energy Committee refers to the Bible and God on the issue of global warming.

Representative John Shimkus insists we shouldn't concerned about the planet being destroyed because God promised Noah it wouldn't happen again after the great flood.

Speaking before a House Energy Subcommittee on Energy and Environment hearing in March, 2009, Shimkus quoted Chapter 8, Verse 22 of the Book of Genesis.

He said: 'As long as the earth endures, seed time and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, will never cease.'
Quizzed: Illinois Republican Representative John Shimkus answers questions for reporters after appearing before the House ethics committee

Quizzed: Illinois Republican Representative John Shimkus answers questions for reporters after appearing before the House ethics committee

The Illinois Republican continued: 'I believe that is the infallible word of God, and that's the way it is going to be for his creation.

'The earth will end only when God declares its time to be over. Man will not destroy this earth. This earth will not be destroyed by a flood.

He added: 'Today we have about 388 parts per million in the atmosphere. I think in the age of dinosaurs, when we had the most flora and fauna, we were probably at 4,000 parts per million. There is a theological debate that this is a carbon-starved planet — not too much carbon. And the cost of a cap-and-trade on the poor is now being discovered.'

The Republican is a vocal opponent to President Obama's American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 - the so-called 'cap-and-trade' Bill, aimed at limiting carbon emissions.

So don't tell me that Christianity increases the survivability of our species or has a net increase in saved lives.

The bottom line is that no good ever attributed to Christianity requires the belief in a false god. However, the evil caused by Christianity is intrinsic to Christianity.

Without Christianity, parents would still love their children. But with Christianity, parents might not love their gay children. That is what it comes down to.

Morality may persist despite a religion, but not because of it. Real morality comes from empathy and rational thought, not superstitions.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

It has been violent, genocidal, and utterly despicable.

The key word is "HAS"

Islam on the other end "IS"

1. Although Christianity has been largely neutered, it still does evil. Just look at Fort Wayne or George W. Bush.
2. There is no down side to getting rid of Christianity, and many up sides.
3. Your objection is temporal arbitrariness. There is nothing special about the particular moment now. In the future Christianity could easily become more extreme. There was a time when Islam was far more tolerant, and Christianity was basically what Islam is today. This could easily happen again. Christianity could easily become radicalized. All irrational world views can become radicalized.
4. If you waved a magic wand and converted all Muslims to Christian, they would just start waging Jihad in the name of Christ instead of the name of Mohamed. The irrationality is the root of the problem, not the arbitrary holy book or rituals.

Dan8267 says

Pretty much every scientific and technological advancement in the past 100 years has been done by atheists, agnostics, or secularists

J. Robert Openheimer among them.

P N Dr Lo R says

Dan8267 says

Pretty much every scientific and technological advancement in the past 100 years has been done by atheists, agnostics, or secularists

J. Robert Openheimer among them.

Openheimer didn't say to drop the bomb on Japan. That was a Christian.

Technology is neither good nor evil, except how we use it. And historically, Christians have chosen to use every technological advancement for evil. Not just nuclear fission and fusion but also airplanes, boats, gun powder, and metallurgy.

Once again, my team scores far higher than yours on the morality scale. Care to revise more history?

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/04/where_the_left_and_islam_intersect.html

Curious how the godless left and Islam share a critical aim.  They both wish to subjugate infidels, though how infidel is defined differs.  But who the infidels are isn’t.  We are, of course, the infidels.  We of western virtues and values.  We who hold to Judeo-Christian beliefs.  We’re obstacles to glorious futures for both.  Both want us consigned to dhimmitude.  Yes, dhimmitude.  That’s second class status, with tribute being paid for the privilege.

P N Dr Lo R says

by Islam and its followers comes from a sense of weakness and inferiority as compared to their targets, not one of strength and confidence.

Sounds awful lot like the "bullies bully due to low self esteem" shibboleth

Not really buying it

Dan said: "the irrationality is the problem, not the arbitrary holy book or rituals."

And here you said it right mostly. Religious belief is only a net negative when it causes people to act against their own self interest or the freedom of others to do the same.

Evil people have and probably will continue to use religion to justify their evil acts. And religion is one vehicle that evil people use to deceive good people into allowing the evil. However some religions (or one in particular) hold subjugation and elimination of non-adherents as an ideal and desired end game. Therefore some religions are evil by nature.

"For some time, an argument has been made that the liberal left, in refusing to examine the problems of Islam, has betrayed its Enlightenment roots.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/04/where_the_left_and_islam_intersect.html#ixzz4ZzEZ9MqL
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook"

For sure, left is pretentious and anti-Enlightenment.
About 10% of Evangelical Christians, I would say

PeopleUnited says

Dan said: "the irrationality is the problem, not the arbitrary holy book or rituals."

And here you said it right mostly. Religious belief is only a net negative when it causes people to act against their own self interest or the freedom of others to do the same.

Any philosophy based on lies and deliberate disregard for reality is prone to abuse, inherently irrational, and ultimately will become corrupt. There are no up sides to basing your world view on lies and misrepresentations of reality. Name one thing that religion does that cannot be done more honestly, transparently, and incorruptibly without religion.

ja says

liberal left

An oxymoron. The left, the right, pseudo-feminists, and Islamists are all conservative tribes. They push different cultures, but they all use the state for force their culture on others and believe their culture should crush all others. That is the defining characteristic of conservatism. LIberalism is the exact opposite. The word liberal literally means "free from restraint" or "let it go". Liberals are open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values. Conservatives, including leftists, want to push specific opinions and traditions onto others. The left has a culture they want to force onto others. They are, by definition, conservatives. They are conserving their culture and their traditions.

It should be obvious to everyone that the left, the right, pseudo-feminists, and Islamists are all manifestations of the anti-thesis of liberalism just with different cultures and traditions. Any time one of these groups complains about another, it is acting hypocritically.

Dan said "It should be obvious to everyone that the left, the right, pseudo-feminists, and Islamists are all manifestations of the anti-thesis of liberalism just with different cultures and traditions. Any time one of these groups complains about another, it is acting hypocritically."

You are right Dan it should be obvious that using the power of the state to coerce and conserve an agenda/culture is illiberal, whether it be leftists, communists or right wingers. However the state run schools, and corporate media have worked for years to hide their agenda of controlling the masses by promoting the false choice of one statist regime or the other ( republican vs democrat). These masters of miseducation are adept at newspeak and have even redefined words to suit the narrative.

Dan said: "Any philosophy based on lies and deliberate disregard for reality is prone to abuse, inherently irrational, and ultimately will become corrupt."

I would agree with this wholeheartedly. In fact deliberate disregard for reality is a defining characteristic of those who reject God. During your study of the Bible, I am sure this fact did not escape you, even if most of "Christianity" failed to act on its truth.

PeopleUnited says

In fact deliberate disregard for reality is a defining characteristic of those who reject God.

Feel free to support that assertion with evidence.

If there were actual evidence that any god, even Satan, were real, I'd be the first to endorse belief in it. I'm married to no position except the truth.

Dan8267 says

Feel free to support that assertion with evidence.

If there were actual evidence that any god, even Satan, were real, I'd be the first to endorse belief in it. I'm married to no position except the truth.

If a Christian meets someone with so-called occult abilities or recalls a past life, that person is marked as "a Devil's disciple", etc. And thus, Christians aren't even able to face the so-called "competition" to their own faith by others around them.

That's why ppl like P N Dr Lo R need a baseball bat through their collective heads. That'll at least teach him some respect for those who don't believe in his BS.

PeopleUnited says

However the state run schools, and corporate media have worked for years to hide their agenda of controlling the masses by promoting the false choice of one statist regime or the other ( republican vs democrat). These masters of miseducation are adept at newspeak and have even redefined words to suit the narrative.

B-b-but Trump and his cohorts invented fake news

Rin says

If a Christian meets someone with so-called occult abilities or recalls a past life, that person is marked as "a Devil's disciple", etc

Yes, Christianity like all other religions promotes narrow-mindedness, conformity, and a herd mentality. It makes citizens easier to control, which is why the state loves religion, but that means government is less accountable and likely to be reformed.

Dan8267 says

Rin says

If a Christian meets someone with so-called occult abilities or recalls a past life, that person is marked as "a Devil's disciple", etc

Yes, Christianity like all other religions promotes narrow-mindedness, conformity, and a herd mentality. It makes citizens easier to control, which is why the state loves religion, but that means government is less accountable and likely to be reformed.

In other words, to P N Dr Lo R and others like him, Fuck You!

Rin says

recalls a past life,

And Christians are delusional?

P N Dr Lo R says

Rin says

recalls a past life,

And Christians are delusional?

You mean that it's not ALL ABOUT FAITH?

Seriously, when someone else injects an alternate spiritual belief, these born-again types try to fall back to objective reality as if Jesus is standing right next to them, during the discussion, lending his silent presence.

Once again, P N Dr Lo is a fucking hypocrite!

Show me the presence of Jesus, you fucking delusional liar!

Dan, please rip this P.O.S apart.

Anyone who believes that Jesus rose from the dead has no grasp on reality and should not be treated like an adult. Adults don't believe in fairy tales. There is nothing respectable about anyone who believes in any of the supernatural bullshit in the Bible.

But what about the Immaculate Reception?

Ball don't lie

Dan8267 says

Yes, Christianity like all other religions promotes narrow-mindedness, conformity, and a herd mentality. It makes citizens easier to control, which is why the state loves religion, but that means government is less accountable and likely to be reformed.

Religion can be used to control the masses via government, but it can also lead the masses to revolt against government, that's why religion as much feared as it is welcome, possibly feared more than welcome by governments.

Resentment is the essence of Islam and Feminism? Guess it shares that with the Trump phenomenon.

Again, all three are conservatism.

Rew says

Resentment is the essence of Islam and Feminism? Guess it shares that with the Trump phenomenon.

Not exactly.

The Trump phenomenon is first and foremost a reaction to the utter devastation that globalization has visited on US factories. That's some real shit right there, not imagined.

Dan8267 says

Anyone who believes that Jesus rose from the dead has no grasp on reality and should not be treated like an adult. Adults don't believe in fairy tales. There is nothing respectable about anyone who believes in any of the supernatural bullshit in the Bible.

Here is a list of a tiny fraction of notable Bible believers/non adults/not-respectable.

Here is a quick list of Christians who were famous scientists or scientific thinkers:
William Ockham.
Francis Bacon.
J Kepler.
Rene Decartes.
Blaise Pascal.
Robert Boyle.
Gottfried Leibniz.
Issac Newton.

Founding fathers who were also Bible believers include such children as Samuel Adams, John Jay and Patrick Henry.

American presidents who preached the Bible or taught Sunday school include Jimmy Carter and James Garfield. Too bad they had no grasp on reality!

Taylor Swift is also reportedly a Christian. She has a blank space for you Dan!

You were saying Dan????

PeopleUnited says

Founding fathers

What about Thomas Paine or Ethan Henry, both of whom, rejected contemporary religion for their own P.O.V.s,

Here's Paine's wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine

A quote from olde Tommy, "I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life.

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

And Ethan Allen, the founder of Vermont ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Allen

Excerpt: "The work was a typical Allen polemic, but its target was religious, not political. Specifically targeted against Christianity, it was an unbridled attack against the Bible, established churches, and the powers of the priesthood. As a replacement for organized religion, he espoused a mixture of deism, Spinoza's naturalist views, and precursors of Transcendentalism, with man acting as a free agent within the natural world. While historians disagree over the exact authorship of the work, the writing contains clear indications of Allen's style."

Sorry, I'd forgotten, those founding fathers were heretics and needed to be burned at the stake or hung out to dry, like in the Salem Witch Trials.

Sorry, I'd forgotten, NO OPPOSING P.O.V.s are accepted in your theocracy.

PeopleUnited says

Here is a list of a tiny fraction of notable Bible believers/non adults/not-respectable.

Appeal to authority means nothing, especially when you have to go back to a time when people were persecuted for showing no signs of disbelief. Of course most of the people in pre-modern times are going to be religious. That just demonstrates how effective the brainwashing of children by religion is. It does not at all demonstrate that the people you listed did good because they were religious and would not have been good otherwise.

PeopleUnited says

You were saying Dan????

I'm saying that there is no upside to brainwashing children into believing ridiculous lies that historically have cause a hell of a lot of evil in the world.

Why would you support brainwashing children?

I think Moral Supremacy and Hardcore Belief come from the same zone of the brain.

It's why Feminism is like a religion.

Moral Outrage is self-serving, study finds.
http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/01/moral-outrage-is-self-serving