patrick.net

PeopleUnited says

Dan there is a difference between believing that Jesus died and rose again, (which most nominal Christians do) and having faith that He is your Lord and Savior.

Honey, plenty of very evil people accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. Again, you don't get to rewrite history to fit your No True Scottsman argument. One could just as easily say that any terrorist isn't a Muslim because Islam is a religion of peace and Allah knows who has trusted Him. Allah means god, literally. You sound exactly like a Muslim.

Strategist says

OK, we screwed up about invading Iraq. It's silly to state Iraq, that invaded Kuwait was a peaceful nation. Even sillier to imply we just randomly started killing people.

The truth is, we foolishly attacked Iraq. We took steps to minimize civilian casualties. We helped rebuild Iraq, and attempted to give it democracy.

We made a second mistake by attempting to give it democracy, because Muslims want Sharia laws, not democracy.

The question is, what do we do now?

All the kings horses and all the kings men can't put humpty dumpty back together again.

We made a second mistake by attempting to give it democracy? Do you live in the same reality as everyone else? We threw everyone that knew how to run the country out of their jobs then replaced them with incompetent cronies of the iraq expats the lied us into the war in the first place. Then in a move that has few historical precedents in the bonehead category we put the entire military, which was a lot of the countries law enforcement, out of their jobs leaving millions of unemployed disgruntled armed men walking around looking for someone to blame. What could possibly go wrong? Duh. Then bush stood on the aircraft carrier and declared mission accomplished. It's not like plenty of people didn't say it wouldn't work.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

Dan there is a difference between believing that Jesus died and rose again, (which most nominal Christians do) and having faith that He is your Lord and Savior.

Honey, plenty of very evil people accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. Again, you don't get to rewrite history to fit your No True Scottsman argument. One could just as easily say that any terrorist isn't a Muslim because Islam is a religion of peace and Allah knows who has trusted Him. Allah means god, literally. You sound exactly like a Muslim.

Sweetheart, I'm sorry I entertained your false dichotomy and other logical fallacies for so long. One such logical fallacy is that you want us to believe that because Christians have done bad things, therefore Christians are bad and you assert (even more illogically so I might add) that Christianity therefore also bad. It is false logic. I suppose because police are capable of doing bad things that police are all bad too? By your logic you would ban police. I suppose because scientists lie and falsify data that all scientists are bad too? Applying your logic, you would ban scientists.

Oh and by the way, Allah may mean "god" in some twisted interpretation, but that does not mean the false god Allah has anything to do with Elohim, the one true God.

Dan literally means judge, therefore by your logic all Dan's are literally judges. It is assinine.

The problem with you is that your logic is flawed, your knowledge is limited and your premise is false. You will never find truth when you start with the false premise that God doesn't exist. It is a foundation on which only lies can be built, because it is a lie.

#nextTimeAskForAdiaper

(Because you just got your Ass handed to you)

By the way, it is not too late. As long as you have breath in you it is evidence that God still wants you to come to the knowledge of Him, once you get that shit out of your head. Seriously, that shit has to go. (oh and before you go accusing me of sounding like a Muslim, know this I am speaking literally. The shit in your head has to go if you are to come to a knowledge of God, or you can just keep believing your shit, I believe in freedom of choice and so does God, that is why Jesus never told his people to do what the violent Koran says to do. The Koran says kill them unless they convert. Jesus was the example for modern day non-violence movements based on reason and religion, including Martin Luther King Jr.)

Islam is also a lie, and it literally teaches its followers to support terrorism and/or become terrorists themselves.

Logic is based entirely on knowledge.
Two types of knowledge bases exist. The absolute knowledge base, and the human knowledge base.
The absolute knowledge base contains the absolute truth about the universe, and everything in it.
The human knowledge base is a subset of the absolute knowledge base.
Premise is based on knowledge + supposition.
Everyone's knowledge is limited, based on the hard evidence that the human knowledge base continues to grow on a daily basis.
Truth is what has been proven at the time of analyzation.
Absolute Truth is what can be proven, at any point in time, past, present, future.
Given the above, Absolute Truth is not knowable by our species, until such a time as we acquire the ability to travel forward in time, to the end of time, if time has an end, and then return back to the same point in time that we left, to update the human knowledge base.

Therefore:
We will never find the absolute truth until we reach the end of time, if there is such a thing.
And at the end of time, we would cease to exist as entities on the rails of time.
Feel better now?

PeopleUnited says

The problem with you is that your logic is flawed, your knowledge is limited and your premise is false. You will never find truth when you start with the false premise that God doesn't exist.

BlueSardine says

We will never find the absolute truth until we reach the end of time

Well I'd like to agree with you, I really would. But if God told us the truth in His word, then we can know absolute truth now. Today. If the Bible is true we can at least know its absolute truths. Better yet, its promises.

BlueSardine says

Given the above, Absolute Truth is not knowable by our species, until such a time as we acquire the ability to travel forward in time, to the end of time, if time has an end, and then return back to the same point in time that we left, to update the human knowledge base.

Unless of course, we are told the truth by a being that transcends time. Jesus is just that, and the Bible is what He wants us to know. That is why He gave us the book, so we would know where we came from, what we are and where we are going. It is a book of history, promises and prophecy. Its promises are true.

But again, I started this thread to discuss Islam and the root of Islamic terrorism. I am happy to discuss Jesus in another venue (or to stop talking about Him as well, as soon as the haters quit spreading lies about Him and His followers).

PeopleUnited says

Sweetheart, I'm sorry I entertained your false dichotomy and other logical fallacies for so long.

Just because you call something a false dichotomy or logical fallacy doesn't make it so. You have to show that it is. You cannot demonstrate a single logical fallacy in any of my arguments. I challenge you to do so. In fact, I'll even show you how to demonstrate a fallacy by using one of your arguments.

No True Scottsman

Form
Person A: Some X do Y.
Person B: No X does Y.
Person A: Here is empirical evidence showing members of X performing Y.
Person B: No true X does Y.

Origins
Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Scotsman, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the "Brighton Sex Maniac Strikes Again". Hamish is shocked and declares that "No Scotsman would do such a thing". The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again; and, this time, finds an article about an Aberdeen man whose brutal actions make the Brighton sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly. This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion, but is he going to admit this? Not likely. This time he says: "No true Scotsman would do such a thing".

PeopleUnited's use of this fallacy
Dan: Throughout 80% of Christian history, Christians committed atrocities like Islamist do today. Such atrocities include torture, rape, murder, slavery, and genocide.
PU: No Christian does that.
Dan: (cites historic evidence backing up claim)
PU: Those aren't real Christians because they did bad things.

And that's how you demonstrate someone has committed a logical fallacy. Now you go do the same. Oh, you can't.

The bottom line is that your religion has caused billions of people to do evil, despicable things. Your religion is bad.

Booger says

You don't win wars by sparing the enemy. If you want to win, you have to fight like we did in WW2, so doing things like firebombing cities is absolutely necessary.

How exactly does bombing children and babies help us defeat terrorism? It seems to have the exact opposite effect motivating countless to take up terrorism in response.

And yes, there are rules in wars and have been since the end of WWII. A nation that firebombs a city should not be allowed to continue to exist. Our weapons are simply too powerful, and the world too small and interconnected to continue to tolerate the wanton destruction of civilian life.

Even if the moral argument doesn't persuade you, consider the practical one. Do you really think you are safer in a world where any nation-state can simply nuke the city where your family lives without the threat of worldwide backlash?

bob2356 says

All the kings horses and all the kings men can't put humpty dumpty back together again.

We made a second mistake by attempting to give it democracy? Do you live in the same reality as everyone else? We threw everyone that knew how to run the country out of their jobs then replaced them with incompetent cronies of the iraq expats the lied us into the war in the first place. Then in a move that has few historical precedents in the bonehead category we put the entire military, which was a lot of the countries law enforcement, out of their jobs leaving millions of unemployed disgruntled armed men walking around looking for someone to blame. What could possibly go wrong? Duh. Then bush stood on the aircraft carrier and declared mission accomplished. It's not like plenty of people didn't say it wouldn't work.

I agree with you. We made the same mistakes with the Shah of Iran, Mubarak of Egypt, Palestinians when we got them to vote etc. They end up supporting religious wackos.
The moral of the story.......You can't bring democracy to 7th century people.

Dan8267 says

Now you go do the same.

Sweetheart, I just did. You simply ignored it by changing the subject and rehashing your straw man and other logical fallacies. It is like you are a bot.

PeopleUnited says

One such logical fallacy is that you want us to believe that because Christians have done bad things, therefore Christians are bad and you assert (even more illogically so I might add) that Christianity therefore also bad. It is false logic. I suppose because police are capable of doing bad things that police are all bad too? By your logic you would ban police. I suppose because scientists lie and falsify data that all scientists are bad too? Applying your logic, you would ban scientists.

What no response to defend your fallacies. Oh that is right, there is no defense. Your position is indefensible.

Here is another translation of your bullshit.

Dan: makes shit up about world history.
Dan: accuses PU of saying something he didn't say (misquotation and using to create another strawman)
Dan: makes another false claim of violence caused by Christians with no actual basis in reality (For example because some group claiming to be Christian killed people, all Christians are bad).
Dan: inserts head back in his ass while claiming to have said something profound.

Here are some of the results of the teaching of Islam. https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Here are some of the results of the teaching of Jesus.

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1964/king-bio.html
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1979/teresa-bio.html
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

I suppose MLK, mother Theresa, Johannes Kepler, Micheal Faraday and all these others were bad people. Can you imagine a world without them? It would be a dark depraved ignorant place, not unlike Dan's head. Thank God for Christians.

PeopleUnited says

Sweetheart, I just did.

Bullshit, don't weasel out of this like a coward. I challenged you to demonstrate my arguments are false dichotomies or other fallacies, and I illustrated exactly how to demonstrate such a point. If you don't rise to the challenge, then you have indicated that you are a lying sack of crap. You don't get to pussy out of this one. Man up or admit you are wrong.

PeopleUnited says

Dan: makes shit up about world history.

Quote one false statement I made about history and the evidence that it is false.

PeopleUnited says

Dan: accuses PU of saying something he didn't say (misquotation and using to create another strawman)

Ditto

PeopleUnited says

Dan: makes another false claim of violence caused by Christians with no actual basis in reality (For example because some group claiming to be Christian killed people, all Christians are bad).

1. Name one such false claim.
2. The claim you made is vague and the conclusion is a straw man. I never stated anything that remotely could be interpreted as "all Christians are bad". This is simply a lie.

In fact, I've never stated that Christians or Muslims are bad. I claimed that Christianity and Islam are bad. That's a huge fucking difference that only someone with the reading skills of a five-year-old would miss.

The actual claims I made is that religions, including Christianity, have throughout history caused people to do evil things. And that's a claim you cannot refute.

PeopleUnited says

Dan: inserts head back in his ass while claiming to have said something profound.

And that would be an ad hominem. Once more you demonstrate the dangers of Christian brainwashing. It causes people to be incapable of rational discussion.

You're on the lowest level of the argument pyramid. You literally used the textbook example.

PeopleUnited says

Here are some of the results of the teaching of Islam.

Here are some of the results of the teaching of Jesus

Cherry picking examples is a logical fallacy. Adolf Hitler, Vlad the Impaler, Vladimir Putin, King Henry VII, and many others are also the results of the teachings of Jesus. One can even make the case that Putin became far more evil after his conversion back to Christianity.

Strategist says

I agree with you. We made the same mistakes with the Shah of Iran, Mubarak of Egypt, Palestinians when we got them to vote etc. They end up supporting religious wackos.

The moral of the story.......You can't bring democracy to 7th century people.

What democracy did we bring that are you talking about? The shah was a monarch. Elections were for the legislature, not the shah. How did we get the Egyptians the vote? Egypt has been holding elections since the brits gave them independence in 1922. Same with Palestine.

The mistakes in Iraq were uniquely stupid and highly original.

Strategist says

They end up supporting religious wackos.

They end up supporting religious wackos after their strongmen leaders become corrupt, viciously repressive, and extremely wealthy while the people live in abject poverty and terror. The same reasons as people fought for communism after the fall of colonialism across the world.

You sound like the domino theory idiots.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

Here are some of the results of the teaching of Islam.

Here are some of the results of the teaching of Jesus

Cherry picking examples is a logical fallacy. Adolf Hitler, Vlad the Impaler, Vladimir Putin, King Henry VII, and many others are also the results of the teachings of Jesus. One can even make the case that Putin became far more evil after his conversion back to Christianity.

I'm not going to play your little pyramid game, if you want to join the debate club go back to school. I'm sure the JV team could teach you a thing or two.

Are you calling Adolf, Vlad, Vladimir Christians? Because they went to church? What have they ever said about Jesus that made you think they were Christians? You get more absurd with every rat hole you go down. More making shit up. Give me one example of how Vlad the Impaler expressed his undying gratitude for the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross to make him a new creature in Christ and I'll say Dan is king of the pyramid.

The problem once again is your premise, just as your premise that there is no god is an untenable foundation from which to build anything but lies, claiming someone is a Christian because they said so is untenable.

For example. I can call my self a New York Yankee baseball player but that doesn't get me on the field. The owner of the Yankees is the only one who can give me those credentials. The same is true with Christianity. People can call themselves Christians but unless Jesus gives you the credentials you aren't getting inside those gates. Did Jesus tell you that Vlad the Impaler is a Christian? I'd like to hear more about that!

bob2356 says

Strategist says

They end up supporting religious wackos.

They end up supporting religious wackos after their strongmen leaders become corrupt, viciously repressive, and extremely wealthy while the people live in abject poverty and terror. The same reasons as people fought for communism after the fall of colonialism across the world.

You sound like the domino theory idiots.

They end up supporting religious wackos because they are trying to be good Muslims. The corrupt dictator is a much better option than a religious wacko.

Old time Pat.net religious arguments are back!

Also, Frederick the Great is better than Francoise Holland or Dubya. The only reason Democracy should be preferred over enlightened despotism is the succession issue: who follows the dictator? Otherwise forward-thinking dictators are better.

Better Lee Kwan Yew than the Afghan Jurga.

PeopleUnited says

I'm not going to play your little pyramid game,

You mean being civilized? You don't have to act like an adult, of course. Being childish and petty is your right. However, the audience is not going to respect you if you choose to exercise your right to be a poo-fling monkey instead of honestly debating the issue like an adult.

So go ahead. You're only embarrassing yourself and making your side look even worse.

PeopleUnited says

Are you calling Adolf, Vlad, Vladimir Christians? Because they went to church? What have they ever said about Jesus that made you think they were Christians?

They believe(d) in the divinity and resurrection of Christ. By definition, that makes them Christians. Your No True Scotsman argument fails.

PeopleUnited says

For example. I can call my self a New York Yankee baseball player but that doesn't get me on the field.

If you play for the NY Yankees in official American league games, then you are a NY Yankee even if you suck ass at baseball. The definition of a NY Yankee player is playing official baseball games for the NY Yankee team. Whether or not someone fan calls you a true NY Yankee is irrelevant.

Your analogy is also flawed because Hal Steinbrenner actually exists, unlike Yahweh. You can physically walk up to Seinbrenner and slap him in the face with your dick. He'll probably object, but you can do that because he exists. Here's a picture of him.

You will never get a picture of your god because he does not exist.

As for Jesus, here's an up-to-date picture.

He no longer exists. The person he was has ceased to be. Therefore Jesus cannot decide anything, nonetheless who is a true follower of his.

Dan8267 says

He does not look like someone who is gonna wake up anytime soon.

That just makes my point even more so.

How did a thread on Islam turn into a judgment on Christianity?

FamousInjury says

How did a thread on Islam turn into a judgment on Christianity?

It always does. Same old Liberal circle jerk.

FamousInjury says

How did a thread on Islam turn into a judgment on Christianity?

Dan hijacked it.

It's more fun attacking barbarians that live today, rather than attacking barbarians that lived a thousand years ago.

socal2 says

FamousInjury says

How did a thread on Islam turn into a judgment on Christianity?

It always does. Same old Liberal circle jerk.

Pointing out the hypocrisy of a thesis is a valid counterargument. The original thread's question is "What are the root causes of Islamic terrorism?" The answer to that question is
1. Faith
2. Religion
3. All the irrationality created by 1 and 2.

The "Discuss" part of this thread's title led to pointing out that Christianity suffers from those three things as well and historically has been ever bit as bad as Islam. Hence, the discussion is on topic and not a hijacking. Just because you don't like the truth doesn't make that truth invalid or irrelevant.

The conversation only went on long because one side refuses to accept historic truth.

Strategist says

It's more fun attacking barbarians that live today, rather than attacking barbarians that lived a thousand years ago.

Christianity does more harm to America every day than Islam ever could. It corrupts our government, our laws, our policies, endangers the entire world ecosystem, and violates civil and human rights, all while holding morality back to Iron Age standards.

Dan8267 says

Christianity does more harm to America every day than Islam ever could.

Right - Christianity did so much harm that America managed to become the most dynamic, free, ethnically diverse, prosperous and powerful country in the world.

Just imagine how much farther ahead America would be from the rest of the world's primates if we were all a bunch of angry atheists like Dan.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

It's more fun attacking barbarians that live today, rather than attacking barbarians that lived a thousand years ago.

Christianity does more harm to America every day than Islam ever could. It corrupts our government, our laws, our policies, endangers the entire world ecosystem, and violates civil and human rights, all while holding morality back to Iron Age standards.

What do you think Islam does today? Do they even know what human rights are? Everything you mentioned, is just a 100 times worse in Islam.
e.g. Genocide of the Yazidis. Christians do not do that. Those that did so in Yugoslavia were quickly subdued.

Dan8267 says

Your god creates terrorists.

Dan8267 says

Your analogy is also flawed because Hal Steinbrenner actually exists, unlike Yahweh.

So on which statement were you bullshitting? The time you said Yahweh didn't exist or the time you said he was Allah and he created terrorists? Me thinks both were bullshiting.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

I'm not going to play your little pyramid game,

You mean being civilized?

No I meant playing word games, see above. You want to have your cake and eat it too. You claim God doesn't exist, and he simultaneously creates terrorists. That IS a miracle.Dan8267 says

a poo-fling monkey instead of honestly debating the issue like an adult.

Dan8267 says

You mean being civilized?

Did you say something about being civilized?Dan8267 says

However, the audience is not going to respect you

Dan, when was the last time you showed respect to Bible believers? What percentage of Patneters show such respect? When is that ever going to change? Surely you can set the example if you really believed in showing respect. I don't believe you ever will, but I am happy to be proven wrong.
Dan8267 says

Your No True Scotsman argument

You created another Straw Man. How cute.
Dan8267 says

They believe(d) in the divinity and resurrection of Christ. By definition, that makes them Christians.

Where are your witnesses? Surely there must be witnesses that say Vlad the Impaler confessed Jesus as his Lord and Savior? Where are these people who witnessed these men confessing Christ? I'm sure a true Christian would have a lot to say about how much Christ meant to them. They probably would talk about Jesus every day and want to share it with others. Testify brothers......... (Crickets chirping).

Dan8267 says

If you play for the NY Yankees in official American league games, then you are a NY Yankee

Ok, but before playing for the Yankees, a player is recognized by the owner as a player, agrees to the terms of the contract and is given a jersey. Then his/her name is written on the program/roster. That is why it is a near perfect analogy of what it means to be a Christian.

You said it right that a Christian claims and confesses Christ as their Savior, but just as claiming/confessing to be Yankee doesn't make it so, neither does the claim of Christ. It is not official unless Christ puts their name on the roster. You don't become a Yankee without going through Steinbrener and being approved by Him, and you don't become a Christian by asking Dan for his definition and approval. You do become a Christian by talking to the owner of the team, Jesus.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. (testimony of people who confess Jesus is Lord but did not truly make him their savior)
Revelation 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. (testimony of God's promise that in order to avoid the lake of fire your name must be found written on the roster, the book of life)
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (Jesus said some people's names will not be on the roster, presumably some of those who thought they were on the roster were mistaken, note in this passage they are even given jerseys for the home team)

Dan8267 says

You will never get a picture of your god because he does not exist.

But wait I thought you said he created terrorists. I guess in a round about way He did. He created every human being that ever walked the earth. Thanks for the reminder. I guess you are right after all. As for a Snapchat image, I don't need one, He wrote me a book. You may have heard of it.

Oh, and He did walk this earth, but His bones he took with Him when he was taken up into heaven after rising from the dead. Luke 24;50-51.

Still waiting for you to show some respect Dan. Judge. Brother?

socal2 says

Dan8267 says

Christianity does more harm to America every day than Islam ever could.

Right - Christianity did so much harm that America managed to become the most dynamic, free, ethnically diverse, prosperous and powerful country in the world.

Just imagine how much farther ahead America would be from the rest of the world's primates if we were all a bunch of angry atheists like Dan.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/joseph-jakubowski-search-accused-of-stealing-guns-sending-manifesto-to-trump/

One of Dan's fellow anti-God warriors.

I find it very dishonest that Dan claims to call someone who shows no testimony of Christian faith a Christian. It is about as disingenuous as it gets.

As for Job, is it really unethical to make a promise and keep it, that is what the story is about from my perspective. Both Job and God were faithful and Satan could not cause that faithfulness to fail despite attacking everything Job had on this earth.

socal2 says

Right - Christianity did so much harm that America managed to become the most dynamic, free, ethnically diverse, prosperous and powerful country in the world.

All those good things happened because atheists and secularists attacked and reduced Christianity's hold over the population. Do you really think we would be the world leader in wealth and technology if we still burned witches like they did in the 1600s and thought that demons and spirits controlled the world?

Every scientific, political, social, and moral advancement has come from the diminishment of Christianity.

socal2 says

Just imagine how much farther ahead America would be from the rest of the world's primates if we were all a bunch of angry atheists like Dan.

I'm not angry, but you clearly are. It must enrage you that atheists like me have cause Christianity to die a bit every year in our country. Church attendance is plummeting. People are less likely to identify as Christians, and when they do, they don't actually believe in all the myths in the Bible. I can feel your hate pulsating through your blood, and it makes a pleasing sound, the sound of victory.

In contrast, times are very good for us happy atheists, and we're quite happy that the death of your religion is coming along nicely. Today is far better than when your religion actually mattered. And with each passing year, and each passing death of a brainwashed individual, your religion matters less and mankind is freer. It's a great time to be alive.

But to answer your question of where we would be if Christianity never existed...

We would be colonizing the galaxy by now.

PeopleUnited says

That being said, I find it very dishonest that Dan claims to call someone who shows no testimony of Christian faith a Christian. It is about as disingenuous as it gets.

I find it very dishonest that you claim I did such a thing. You are as disingenuous as it gets.

The entire history of Christianity is full of people of great faith in Christ committing rape, murder, genocide, infanticide, and other atrocities. You don't get to rewrite history. The fact that you keep repeating your lies just makes you even more despicable.

Dan8267 says

socal2 says

Right - Christianity did so much harm that America managed to become the most dynamic, free, ethnically diverse, prosperous and powerful country in the world.

All those good things happened because atheists and secularists attacked and reduced Christianity's hold over the population. Do you really think we would be the world leader in wealth and technology if we still burned witches like they did in the 1600s and thought that demons and spirits controlled the world?

Every scientific, political, social, and moral advancement has come from the diminishment of Christianity.

Science and religion can never be compatible. Look at the Islamic nations......what has been their scientific achievements in the last 2 centuries?

PeopleUnited says

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/joseph-jakubowski-search-accused-of-stealing-guns-sending-manifesto-to-trump/

One of Dan's fellow anti-God warriors.

OK, you have one evil anti-religious person. How long did it take you to find that, and how does that outweigh the 1 billion Christians in history who have done evil in the name of their religion including Hitler? If you want to compare good vs. evil, the fact is that violent criminals are overwhelmingly Christian. Atheists make up a far smaller proportion of convicted murderers, rapists, and all other criminals than what is to be expected from the percentage of the general population that are atheists. The reverse is true of Christians.

Facts are a bitch, aren't they?

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/joseph-jakubowski-search-accused-of-stealing-guns-sending-manifesto-to-trump/

One of Dan's fellow anti-God warriors.

If I were to argue like PeopleUnited, I'd have to say he wasn't anti-God because he's violent and the only way to be anti-God is to be peaceful and good. Only the anti-God can judge who are his real followers. Now that would be a straw man worthy of one of PeopleUnited's arguments.

Instead, I say sure atheists can be evil, but they are empirically far less likely to be so than Christians.

Newbie123 says

What good comes out of Islam?

What good comes from any religion that cannot also come more reliably from somewhere else without all the evil baggage of religion?

Dan8267 says

All those good things happened because atheists and secularists attacked and reduced Christianity's hold over the population.

The Abolitionists that were at the forefront of the anti-slavery movement was an explicitly Christian movement and used Christianity to justify their anti-slavery positions.

Whereas, the super sophisticated atheists types used "science" to justify slavery and eugenics. Isn't slavery and racism our country's biggest sin?

The fanatical atheists that ran the Communist party under Stalin and Mao did quite a bit to "attack and reduce" Christianity's hold over the population. How did that work out for humanity?

socal2 says

The Abolitionists that were at the forefront of the anti-slavery movement was an explicitly Christian movement and used Christianity to justify their anti-slavery positions.

As did the slavers. They quoted the Bible's pro-slavery verses from both the Old AND NEW Testaments. Yes, that's right, the New Testament is also pro-slavery. In fact there is nothing anti-slavery anywhere in the Bible.

Oh, and Jesus Christ never rallied against slavery, the biggest moral issue of his time.

This round goes to atheists.

socal2 says

Whereas, the super sophisticated atheists types used "science" to justify slavery and eugenics.

Now that's just an outright lie. Some Christians used pseudo-science to justify slavery and eugenics in the 1800s. Name one atheists that did. Actually, name at least a million because one bad atheist doesn't outweigh a million bad Christians. History still bears witness that religion, especially Christianity, causes people to become more evil.

socal2 says

The fanatical atheists that ran the Communist party under Stalin and Mao did quite a bit to "attack and reduce" Christianity's hold over the population. How did that work out for humanity?

Quite well. If the communists were Christians, the world would have ended in nuclear war already.

In any case, all the evil in the Soviet Union had nothing to do with atheism, but rather with authoritarians and is exactly what you see in the United States today with the massive domestic spying, black flag operations, lethal medical experimentation on civilians, forced sterilization without the knowledge of the women being sterilized, and many, many more evils I can go into.

But you're trying to argue that if a single evil atheists exists, then atheism should be banned. Well, let's apply that to Christianity. Remember the alligator babies discussed in a recent thread? All the people using infants and toddlers are alligator bait, letting the animals eat the children alive, were Christians, not atheists. That's fucked up. Are you going to be a hypocrite or are you going to call for a ban on Christianity now?

Here are your Christian values...

They would go down there at night, take these babies and... tie them up, put a rope around their neck and around their torso, around here, and tie it tight.

They'd be screaming... What they were doing would help them to chum the water. He said when they would throw the babies in tied to this rope, he said in a matter of minutes, he said, the alligators were on them. He said the alligator would clamp his jaws on that child. As a matter of fact, once he clamped on them he was really swallowed. He said you couldn't see anything but the rope! Some would be infants, some would be a year old, toddlers, some would be infants.

Dan8267 says

And the United States could definitely deteriorate into a theocracy.

It can't. Very few Christians are fanatical. Most lawmakers, even though they call themselves Christians, are really secular.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

And the United States could definitely deteriorate into a theocracy.

It can't.

That's what they said about Trump being elected.

Strategist says

Very few Christians are fanatical.

That has changed in the past. It can change again. It takes constant opposition of religion to keep it in check.

Strategist says

Most lawmakers, even though they call themselves Christians, are really secular.

There are key senators in charge of important committees who cite Noah's Ark as evidence that rising sea-levels are impossible. That should scare you.