patrick.net

Don't BAN, BOYCOTT!

It's up to thread authors to decide who to ban. Personally, I don't plan to ban anyone, so my own threads will still have lots of controversy.

But I will quickly flag personal attacks as "ad hominem" and they will go to comment jail until edited to be less personal.

That feature will quickly show the easily offended types. Not sure if that's good on a free speech forum.

Isn't there an anonymizing mail service that can send them flaming dog poo instead?

I did fuck up the instant comment feature.

Well, it's not critical for using the site. I'll get around to fixing that.

You guys really pay attention to ironman? Watching him and TPB flounder around looking like idiots is pretty good amusement. They perfect representatives of the tell me what to think sect that dark money has convinced to have beliefs totally against their own interests. Patnet's own microcosm of the trump phenomena.

Ironman says

Says the guy who says the owner of this site sucks Trump's balls and calls the owner mentally retarded...

Ironman says

Why are certain people here such hypocrites?

Is this an attempt at the grownup version of "he started it"?
Does it matter if most of the kids in the sandbox don't want to play with you anyway?

rando says

I did fuck up the instant comment feature.

You are the first one to ever make a mistake.
How can all us perfectionist continue to participate in
such a fallible website? lol

An addition to the BAN.
Post a list in every thread of all those that are banned by those that start a thread or comment
on another thread.
They need to face their immaturity,constantly.

Ironman says

I have NO interest in playing in the pre-school sandbox that most of you Special Snowflakes hang out in.

The sandbox in this case is Pnet, and every time we talk about moderation of these forums, you are the loudest advocate for radical free speech at the very expense of adult conversation. You appear to think loudest, most divisive, most combative is what is to be valued. You also have a very poor ability to rationally look at data being presented and counter it specifically. You reply mostly with questions, or by posting a simpleton tangental poorly supported argument.

You appear to be a troll or just a lonely out of touch old man looking for attention on the internet. I'm sorry.

Rew says

Does it matter if most of the kids in the sandbox don't want to play with you anyway?

But he still wants to play with the kids.

Ironman says

Not at all, I have NO interest in playing in the pre-school sandbox that most of you Special Snowflakes hang out in.

www.youtube.com/embed/deFDXYdF2g4

We need a function to ban CIC from the Earth.

Is this at the thread level , comment level, or global level?

It's by author.

So if an author bans you, you cannot comment on his threads.

rando says

So if an author bans you, you cannot comment on his threads

OK, so I should expect multiple threads on the same topic.

Yes, probably so.

People will self-segregate into relatively like-minded groups.

What we need is another thread about the special snowflakes and how they don't understand how awesome Trump is.

Also let's talk endlessly about how these are the 6 tenets of liberalism:

1) Everyone having the exact same income

2) Not working

3) Expecting infinite support and free shit from the government

4) Calling freedom loving patriots hateful or racists

5) Being godless pagans that are way too interested in deviant sex practices and gender weirdness

6) Fascist free speech denial on college campuses. All lefties and liberals are 100% supportive of this.

What did I forget ? (probably something about teachers ? Or perhaps how liberals actually want more terrorism becasue they refuse to condemn all of Islam because of some convoluted foolish belief that it would make radical Islamic terrorism worse) )

Hater says

patrick

Is there a reason you hide my posts?

What?

No one's posts are hidden. What post are you referring to?

Ah, there was a post which was marked "ad hominem" and indeed you were insulting another user instead of simply addressing his point.

This is not an ad hominem post. There is no personal attack in it.

Hater says

@patrick

Is there a reason you hide my posts?

They are mindless propaganda disseminating debunked lies as facts and often pure ad hominem attacks. At least your username is honest. You are full of hate.

Dan8267 says

You are full of hate.

That is actually a personal attack.

Whether or not a user is "full of hate" is irrelevant to the point the user is making, and that particular accusation the standard technique used by the left over and over to shut down civil and open debate on many issues.

rando says

Whether or not a user is "full of hate" is irrelevant to the point the user is making,

I disagree. The intent of the author is relevant to his writing. Intent matters.

Furthermore, hate is not inherently bad. Hate is an emotion, and no emotion is purely good or evil. Hatred serves a purpose. The purpose of hate is to deny evil the benefits of cooperation. Hatred is the appropriate response to harmful ideologies like Nazism and harmful behavior like terrorism. Therefore, it is appropriate to question whether or not a person's hatred is constructive or destructive. Hate can be good or bad, but either way it affects a person's position and is a valid topic of conversation.

My response to Hatred's objection to his posts being marked ad hominem stated,

They are mindless propaganda disseminating debunked lies as facts and often pure ad hominem attacks. At least your username is honest. You are full of hate.

The statement "You (Hatred) are full of hate." is materially relevant to why his posts are "often pure ad hominem attacks". It explains the root of the problem and suggests the solution, for Hatred to let go of his hate. Context matters. Saying that a person has a character flaw is not a personal attack if the context is identifying a problem and how to fix it, as is the case in my post.

Now, if I had said "you are a hateful little shit", then obviously that would be an ad hominem attack because it is no longer a factual statement, but rather a judgement of the person. The statement "you are full of hate" is not necessarily a judgement, and in the context of my post, was an objective observation.

Even if it's true, it doesn't matter.

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is now usually understood as a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

Banning is up to thread authors. Let's see how that works for a while.

I did not delete any of your comments, but did delete one post which insulted Dan. There is no "post jail" yet, but I guess there should be.

Yes, that's it.

IIRC, there were like 3 comments.

Hacking is always possible, but I doubt that's it.

Those "confirm patrick.net post" emails get sent if you write a post when not logged in. Then it logs you in and publishes the post when you click on a link in the email.

Or, if you don't do that, eventually I see that the post is held in moderation, and approve it, or delete it if it's spam.

It was like "Dan is so triggered, that..."

Yup.

www.youtube.com/embed/1sONfxPCTU0

Evidently not. There is simply insufficient maturity in too many people. Immaturity coupled with anonymity equals trolling.

Patrick says

So between that and the ad hominem link, everyone should be able to moderate their own threads pretty well

Patrick - Sig Heil!

This is more like censorship ala V. Putin.

What you trying to make Patrick.net into - CNN?

Entitlemented says

What you trying to make Patrick.net into - CNN?

He's giving pussies* their safe spaces.

*) They know who they are.

Those that ban others must have Straw for backbones.

Dan8267 says

True, Patrick is trying damn hard, but he's failing. CIC is personally responsible for PatNet having lost at least 90% of its traffic. And a few other trolls, all on the conservative right, are also killing this site. If I wanted to pointlessly argue with asshole losers, I'd go to reddit.

If one doesn't like Free Speech,this is not the site for them.
No one is required to respond to others. Can anyone here simply not read threads by certain posters,
including HEY YOU.
It's impossible to not respond to HEY YOU because of the BRILLIANT ANALYSIS.

HEY YOU says

Those that ban others must have Straw for backbones.

I'm more than willing to debate this issue with you. Justify your premise that no one should ever be banned. I'll go first because I have brass balls.

Freedom of speech goes both ways. It means that a willing audience can hear ideas they want to hear, but that also means that no person should be allowed to prevent a willing audience from hearing those ideas. This is why those who shout down presenters are kicked out. It's also why trolls are kicked out. Trolls aren't silenced by bans because they can start their own threads. However, they are prevented from disrupting other people's conversations.

Your turn.

I guess I'm trying to accomplish contradictory things:

1. Let everyone give their opinion, no matter how odious, as long as they are arguing a point and not simply shitting on another user. (thus the ad-hom thing)
2. Let everyone avoid interacting with users who are simply trying to make them angry for fun. (thus the ability to ban from your own threads)

I suppose it is actually impossible to have "moderated free speech", but you could at least have fair moderation.

Which users have the best reputation for fairness and never getting angry? Maybe they should be allowed to be moderators.

rando says

Which users have the best reputation for fairness and never getting angry? Maybe they should be allowed to be moderators.

Patrick please don't add moderators. That never works out well in a long run, ego's and personality biases get in a way. I think you have it very right now where users can simply choose to block/ban certain users from their threads. That is the most free speech market solution out there. Having moderators is kind of outdated 90's thing.

Is it sufficient to let users ban such people from their own threads?

You might still have to interact with them on a 3rd party thread. But then, you could ask the thread author to ban them and they might agree.

FortWayne, you're right. Letting people have control of their own threads is probably sufficient.

rando says

I guess I'm trying to accomplish contradictory things:

1. Let everyone give their opinion, no matter how odious, as long as they are arguing a point and not simply shitting on another user. (thus the ad-hom thing)

2. Let everyone avoid interacting with users who are simply trying to make them angry for fun. (thus the ability to ban from your own threads)

Those aren't contradictory. Everyone can express their opinion, just not necessarily to another person's face. Well, that's tough. The snowflakes will simply have to get used to that.

The problem is that even with ban, people still attack each other on third party threads. This will stop when more people start using ban. Of course, it will split PatNet into two communities, one being a right-wing masturbation fest, and the other being everybody else, but that's a good thing.