patrick.net

Instead of taking out ISIS and terrorists in their country, UK police are policing Twitter. Sad.

As an American, are you more likely to be harmed by a Christian Drunk Driver, or a Muslim Jihadist?

How about Christian priests fucking little boys in the asses? Priests from any other religions doing the same?

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Good lord, now that is unfair.

The guy is obviously a Sikh from a mile away, and Sikhism came into existence mostly as a reaction to repeated Islamic slaughter of Hindus in India.

Sikhs run charities for everyone, like the free food in every Sikh temple, so it makes sense that a Sikh would be charitable with his taxi.

Muslims run charities for no one but Muslims.

Do all the Christians figure heads rape young boys, in the name of Mohammed?

See, I know why you cannot answer my questions, and instead, rush to defend your Home Team, Rocky. Do you?

There's a pathetic built in response that all the brainwashed Christian apologists reflexively turn to: those are not real Christians! Lmao!!

So the logic here, is that we should condemn all Muslims and the entire religion, based on the actions of the handful of worst actors. However, when assessing the harms of Christianity and Christians, we must toss out every bad example, because those bad actors aren't representative of their religion. They are Fake Christians!

No wonder we're so fucked. Logic and Reason were long ago abandoned, seemingly, IN THE NAME OF CHRIST!

Christianity demands that the True Believers abandon independent thought and reason. It's canon

errc says

As an American, are you more likely to be harmed by a Christian Drunk Driver, or a Muslim Jihadist?

Do Christians deliberately drive cars into non-Christians in order to kill them in the name of Jesus?

No they do not. Has never happened.

Only Muslims do things like that, and they do it explicitly exactly and only because of their religion.

I hope you run into a sincere Muslim practicing his faith.

FP says

How about Christian priests fucking little boys in the asses? Priests from any other religions doing the same?

They're not Real Christians!

Now stop talking about them, everyone knows you must first clean up everyone else's house, before you can worry about getting your own homes affairs in order

errc says

we should condemn all Muslims and the entire religion, based on

We should condemn Islam based on what it teaches.

errc says

They're not Real Christians!

That's true. Jesus fucked no little boys in the ass.

Can you say the same is true about Mohammed?

rando says

errc says

As an American, are you more likely to be harmed by a Christian Drunk Driver, or a Muslim Jihadist?

Do Christians deliberately drive cars into non-Christians in order to kill them in the name of Jesus?

No they do not. Has never happened.

Only Muslims do things like that, and they do it explicitly exactly and only because of their religion.

I hope you run into a sincere Muslim practicing his faith.

I know many Muslims. They cause me far less harm than Christians do here in the States.

I hope you have a love one suffer from a disease, that could have easily been resolved via stem cell advancements. Maybe they are tired of all the suffering, and wish to pass with dignity. Then you can tell them how they must suffer for Jesus, and they cannot check out on their own terms because Jesus

Please hang around Muslims much more.

BTW, I'm all for stem cell research. Just saying that Muslims deliberately kill random innocent people every day somewhere in the world, because that's what Islam teaches them to do.

Given a choice between the common cold (irrational belief in Jesus) and rabies (irrational belief in Mohammed), I'll take the cold any day, and also advocate it to anyone else who has the choice. Especially if the common cold confers some immunity to rabies.

I don't know who Jesus fucked in the ass. But I'll say that Dan has hit on the main issue in this thread. To judge Christianity,
you have to judge the actions of Christians over the last 2000 years. If you believe or argue about what is inherent in the religion, it should be obvious from the actions once the book was written. I've brought this up before as well.
Over and over again, people discuss what is happening now. They don't address historical actions, so they never get at the heart of the matter.

The heart of the matter is the heart of the two religions.

What do they teach?

Christians have done bad things in spite of Christian teaching.

Muslims have done and keep doing bad things because of Islamic teaching.

What most Muslims will say:

Islam would never support the killing of innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance.

What knowledgeable Muslims should say:

That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach peace, tolerance and non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently. They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do.

https://patrick.net/Islam

errc says

As an American, are you more likely to be harmed by a Christian Drunk Driver, or a Muslim Jihadist?

False comparison.

We're comparing Christianity and Islamic fueled terror. Drunk Driving is not an act of religion. Going on Jihad is.

P N Dr Lo R says

It worked with the Japs.

Actually, no, it did not. When Japan surrendered to the United States, our government forced the emperor to admit that he was not a god, something the Japanese people believed. So the example you are using is one in which the United States directly and irrefutably interfered with freedom of religion and explicitly ended a religion that they did not want to exist. Your example proves my point.

errc says

No wonder we're so fucked. Logic and Reason were long ago abandoned, seemingly, IN THE NAME OF CHRIST!

Where'd the steam engine, cotton gin, railroad, etc. come from then?

rando says

That's true. Jesus fucked no little boys in the ass.

They do it because of the unattural way of life their religion imposes on them. Hence it is a direct consequence of Christianity. That was my point in case you did not get it.

rando says

Please hang around Muslims much more.

Nice! Very Christian of you!

If someone points out the harm and suffering caused here at home by Christians, wish death upon them!

Lulululululu!!

rando says

errc says

They're not Real Christians!

That's true.

This is exactly the same No True Scottsman argument that the left makes about Islam. Hell, Batman famously made this argument to Bill Maher and Sam Harris. Do I need to post the video?

I'm sorry, but power based on lies is ripe for abuse, and so the lie is very much relevant to the abuse of power.

rando says

Christians have done bad things in spite of Christian teaching.

There is good and evil in the Bible, including the New Testament, as well as in the Quran. Yes, you could argue that there are more vile passages in the Quran than the New Testament, but you are still cherry picking. The New Testament is pro-slavery and was used as an argument for slavery by the South. And quite frankly, if you can't even get the issue of slavery right, you're a shit source of morality.

There is NO good moral in the New Testament that relies on the supernatural. Even in principle, at best the New Testament is worthless. Historically, it has been counter-productive.

I have a long response to one of Marcus's post. Instead of breaking it down into several pieces, I just opened a new thread for it. It probably deserves its own thread anyway as the subject matter is rich enough. So here's the link.

The useful lie is not useful

I'll gladly defend my position against any attack.

Dan8267 says

I have a long response to one of Marcus's post. Instead of breaking it down into several pieces, I just opened a new thread for it. It probably deserves its own thread anyway as the subject matter is rich enough. So here's the link.

The useful lie is not useful

I'll gladly defend my position against any attack.

You "banned" half the forum, so the only person you need to defend your points are against yourself.

I'm opposed to celibacy for priests. Nor did I say that there is no harm from certain Christian beliefs. Celibacy for priests is not even intrinsic to Christianity. It was tacked on by Rome much later.

I think you're arguing that splattering the bodies of teen girls with explosives is somehow no worse than celibacy for priests.

errc says

If someone points out the harm and suffering caused here at home by Christians, wish death upon them!

No, Islam is the religion of peace. I was just wishing you more peace by wishing you more Islam.

FortWayne says

You "banned" half the forum, so the only person you need to defend your points are against yourself.

An outright lie. I banned a few persistent trolls who have never added anything to the conversation and have just derailed conversations. Banning trolls and banning political dissent are not the same thing. And it's not a coincidence that the same people tend to be banned by various persons.

In any case, you can reply to that post in this thread and I'll gladly thrash your ass in a debate. I feel a bit bad doing that since it's like playing basketball against a toddler who stands no chance, but I'll do it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/23/salman-abedi-named-manchester-suicide-bomber-know/

Salman Abedi. Born in Manchester in 1994, the second youngest of four children his parents were Libyan refugees who came to the UK to escape the Gaddafi regime. His parents were both born in Libya but appear to have emigrated to London before moving to the Fallowfield area of south Manchester where they have lived for at least ten years.

Lots more details:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/23/manchester-arena-attack-22-killed-suicide-bomber-ariana-grande/

Damn Christians, right?

The heart of the matter is the heart of the two religions.

What do they teach?

Christians have done bad things in spite of Christian teaching.

Muslims have done and keep doing bad things because of Islamic teaching.

--------------

Does it matter more what you think they teach, or their actual actions in the real world?

Are you attempting to build some bullshit case, that it all boils down to intent?

That Muslims supposedly try to harm you on purpose, but Christians only harm you on accident?

This is the fatal flaw in the heinous sect of modern Christianity: that everyone is born with sin, and all sins can be forgiven by simply asking Jesus for forgiveness. I could tell that this was horseshit by the time I was Six years old. Christianity should be classified as a mental disorder, although it seems more parasitical much like Toxoplasmosis Gondii.

Notice that as an Irish Catholic, I didn't even have to defend Islam, merely point out the similarities in Christianity, and you immediately wished death upon me. Wowza

errc says

Does it matter more what you think they teach, or their actual actions in the real world?

Actions in the real world.

Like splattering the bodies of innocent girls across an auditorium.

Why doesn't it seem to matter to you?

rando says

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/23/salman-abedi-named-manchester-suicide-bomber-know/

old Salman Abedi.Born in Manchester in 1994, the second youngest of four children his parents were Libyan refugees who came to the UK to escape the Gaddafi regime.His parents were both born in Libya but appear to have emigrated to London before moving to the Fallowfield area of south Manchester where they have lived for at least ten years.They had three sons in total and a daughter, who is now

Seems like a standard pattern. Young, naive, muslim, doing poorly financially... radicalized online goes to blow people up. These people are actively trying to murder us.

It's a crazy world out there. And America is the last beacon of freedom that stands against all that.

rando says

The heart of the matter is the heart of the two religions.

What do they teach?

So, do we judge religion by what is in the book or by the actions of the followers? There sure are a lot of arguments being made based on the actions of a small minority of the followers today. Those arguments ignore history.

rando says

Jesus fucked no little boys in the ass.

You do realize that you personally disagree with most of Jesus's teachings, right? Sure, you believe people should be nice, but you don't believe what Jesus actually taught. Think about the things you strongly disagree with.

Jesus would say that Europe and America should welcome Muslims in with open arms, even the ones intending to commit terrorist acts. After all, if you are blown up by a terrorist, that just shows how much you love your fellow man, and you'll be in heaven that day.

Jesus would be entirely against killing terrorists. Do good to those who hurt you. Turn the other cheek. Never take a life.

Jesus would also object to you living a life that was in any way comfortable. He told people to give up all their wealth, not excessive wealth, but all wealth. And he did this in a time long before air conditioning, cars, smart phones, washing machines, or indoor plumbing. Having a clay hut and a fire pit was luxury in his time. He meant you should live a very harsh and basic life devoid of all comforts.

Jesus was also the mother of all socialists. Capitalism is completely incompatible with his teachings. He believed in the core principle of communism, redistributing wealth according to need, not merit or desire or productivity, and certainly not by ownership rights.

Jesus was anti-weapons and that would certainly include anti-guns. The character of Jesus was the ultimate pacifist. He did not even resist being tortured and killed slowly. He certainly would not approve of packing heat to protect yourself. Jesus never carried a dagger, nonetheless a bow. He would be appalled at the very idea of a gun.

Since you reject most of Jesus's core teachings, why do you hold him as an example of how to be? The only teaching of his you seem to like is "be nice", and that's hardly unique to him.

I think you need to follow a new savior.

www.youtube.com/embed/t3ICRoe-QIw

Everything good about the New Testament without all the embarrassing baggage like slavery.

errc says

That Muslims supposedly try to harm you on purpose

This wasn't an accident, this was planned. This man was radicalized by an "organization", heavily financially backed. This isn't just some guy who got a few screws loose because he did too much cocaine. This is the result of the work of entire muslim based organizations that are constantly, constantly trying to undermine and murder us.

Do you not get it? ISIS and whoever else out there, they want us dead. And this is the best they can do for now, but if they could, they'd be blowing up a heck of a lot more people up in US.

errc says

That Muslims supposedly try to harm you on purpose, but Christians only harm you on accident?

This is exactly true.

Islam is trying to harm you on purpose, because you have rejected Islam. Christians are not trying to harm you at all.

errc says

Christianity should be classified as a mental disorder

If you think that, why do you never mention the Islamic mental disorder which is causing carnage around the world right now?

errc says

you immediately wished death upon me

No, I wished Islam on you. You don't seem to think that Islam is any threat to your safety, so it's all good, right?

rando says

Salman Abedi. Born in Manchester in 1994, the second youngest of four children his parents were Libyan refugees who came to the UK to escape the Gaddafi regime. His parents were both born in Libya but appear to have emigrated to London before moving to the Fallowfield area of south Manchester where they have lived for at least ten years.

This is gratitude, the Islamic way. Crazy pedophile loving lunatics.

YesYNot says

Those arguments ignore history.

You seem to be ignoring Islamic history.

rando says

errc says

If someone points out the harm and suffering caused here at home by Christians, wish death upon them!

No, Islam is the religion of peace. I was just wishing you more peace by wishing you more Islam.

Oh, my bad. Here I thought you were arguing that Islam demands that their followers kill all the infidels. After I gave some undisputed, real world examples of Christians causing harm, you got all triggered and wished death upon me.

Notice, I've yet to defend Islam. But this is exactly how Real Christians react to facts. They wish death on others. It's fucking sad, and I'm arguing in favor of stopping religious institutions from harming people. I'm not sure what exactly you're arguing in favor of, although it seems that you're fighting to suppress sny Speech that sheds less than positive light on Christianity.

I hope you never left your son alone in a Christian church, with a priest. God save you, if you have.

remember when Jesus was concieved? His mother was a virgin, how very scientific of your Home Team religion, Rocky

rando says

You seem to be ignoring Islamic history

I'm simply pointing out that nobody even bothers to defend the actions of Christians over the last 2000 years. Nobody even acknowledges the need to do so. There must be a reason for it.

errc says

and wished death upon me.

No, once again I wished Islam upon you, the religion of peace, right? If you think that Islam might not be a religion of peace, please say so. I would not want to wish anything on you that you object to.

I'm not a believing Christian by the way. I just happen to have actually read and considered the examples and arguments in the New Testament and found them greatly superior to the Koran's incitement to hate and kill.

errc says

you're fighting to suppress sny Speech

Have I suppressed your speech?

errc says

Notice, I've yet to defend Islam.

That's wrong. You have very clearly defended Islam by your tacit approval of the mass murder in Manchester. Your silence about the murders speaks volumes.