patrick.net

PeopleUnited says

Would you tolerate Islam taking over the United States? If not, ask yourself why. It's the same reason I don't tolerate Christianity taking over the United States.

No, I don't want ISIS taking away my beer and bacon. But thankfully Jesus did not come to earth to tell us how to eat or drink.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

It is a simple question. What motivates a priest to molest?

Just because a question is simple does not mean I personally have the answer or care to speculate. Just because I do not know the answer does not mean there isn't one or that someone else doesn't know it or that the answer is discoverable using science. I'm quite sure there are psychologists who can tell you in painful detail exactly why a particular priest molested a particular child.

Whatever trap you think you have set, won't work. I have never and would never claim to have learned every single bit of mankind's knowledge. That would be impossible for any single human brain. Nor have I ever claimed that there are no unanswered scientific questions. However, science actually does answer questions whereas religion does not.

Dan you have claimed moral superiority to people you call religious. And you also repeatedly state that unless one understands the problem he/she can't hope to come to a solution. Your inability to describe the problem of why priests molest, let alone why people commit a million other immoral acts is just more evidence that you are talking out of the Hershey highway. You constantly harangue on the evils of religion and tribalism and conservatism. And yet you cannot even tell us why people choose to do evil. Your arguments lack credibility. If you cannot tell us the source of evil, the root of injustice, who are you to tell us the solution to injustice is secularism? Furthermore where is the secular society that has evolved to the point where the evils you attribute to religion are not also prevalent? There is no place on earth, now, in the past and I dare argue in the future where secularism will result in the utopia you so desire. The reason is that the evils you attribute to religion do not originate from religion.

This is why I accuse you and the left of promoting the thought crime fallacy. Thought crime seeks to prosecute the REASON people commit crime. It is the left who has successfully lobbied to impose even more stringent penalties on people who they claim are homophobic or racist and who commit violence or other discriminatory acts against others based on these prejudices. To the left, it is not good enough that we hold people accountable for the violence they commit. According to the left, we must hold people accountable for the thoughts they think. It is what leads a man to attack a group of Republicans with a rifle. He wants to hold them accountable for what they think. It is interestingly exactly what ISIS wants to do, they want to hold people accountable for what they think. And yes, even you Dan, you want to hold people accountable for what they think, the conservative that you are.

Overzealous religious people, and overzealous people of any ideology have sought to impose these restrictions on what people think for as long as humans have walked this earth. You could even argue that Cain killed Abel because Cain did not like that Abel had a different idea on how to worship God than him. But that is not evidence that religion causes murder. It is evidence that when you don't obey God's commands you set yourself on a path that leads to destruction.

Dan8267 says

Mathematics is pure a priori logic. You do not solve for x in one equation and then simply reassert the same value because x empirically equals two.

Science uses maths, but is based on the scientific method, which is by definition an empirical method. Scientific theory make testable predictions. The theory is confirmed with empirical observation.

Engineering is the application of mathematics and science to build and fix things.

These three concepts are very different. If you equate them, then you don't understand them.

Only a hypocrite would equate Islam with the other world religions while simultaneously arguing that mathematics and engineering are not sciences.

Fine, math uses a priori logic. On the other hand scientific method is based on observation rather than deduction. And scientists use math and observation to better describe and understand the natural world. And engineers use math and observation to create new ways of solving problems. But at the end of the day you are just arguing semantics. What you fail to acknowledge is that math, science, and engineering are things that humans as intelligent beings do. It takes an intelligent being to observe and record those observations. It takes an intelligent being to use a priori logic. It takes an intelligent being to put this knowledge to work in the engineering of ways to manipulate the elements in ways that better suit the needs of the engineer. And that is the point I am making here, science, math and engineering are things that humans do. We are hardwired to use logic, to observe, and to put that reasoning and observation to work for us in manipulating the world around us. Therefore science, math, engineering are things human do, rather than explanations for why people do evil.

The reason Dan, that you cannot tell us why humans do evil using math, science and engineering as you so boldly claim, is that math, science and engineering are also human actions.

God on the other hand makes it easy to understand why humans do evil. He tells us in His word that every human being is corrupt and in need of a Savior.

Romans Chapter 3

10
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
11
there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12
All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." [3]
13
"Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit." [4] "The poison of vipers is on their lips." [5]
14
"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness." [6]
15
"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16
ruin and misery mark their ways,
17
and the way of peace they do not know." [7]
18
"There is no fear of God before their eyes." [8]
19
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
21
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24
and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
25
God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, [9] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--
26
he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Dan8267 says

The Holocaust was not "merely a side show".

The Holocaust, while being a horrible act of violence against all of humanity, was not the cause of World War II. Don't conflate these atrocities with the cause of the war.

PeopleUnited says

Dan you have claimed moral superiority to people you call religious.

Where?

I claim that morality based on what is good is superior to morality based on the fear of being tortured for eternity.

I also point out the hypocrisy of the holier than thou who harm their fellow humans and the world but claim moral superiority because they believe in some false god.

PeopleUnited says

Your inability to describe the problem of why priests molest, let alone why people commit a million other immoral acts is just more evidence that you are talking out of the Hershey highway.

No, it's not. My refusal to speculate on the sexual behavior of some criminals or to generalize and reduce every single legal case into a sound bite is indicative of my honesty. Just because I didn't fall for your trap doesn't mean you have a point. You're suppose to get your opponent to fall for your trap before declaring victory.

Furthermore, the pedophilia of Christian clergy is irrelevant to this conversation other than to point out how monstrous the Christian church is for covering up these crimes and enabling the perpetrators to claim many more victims. That shows a complete lack of morality by the church.

PeopleUnited says

You constantly harangue on the evils of religion and tribalism and conservatism. And yet you cannot even tell us why people choose to do evil.

I've stated many times why. Instinct, genetic interest, short-term thinking, lack of cooperation and reciprocality. And I've backed it up with plenty of scientific evidence.

But it's irrelevant what answers I personally can give. The falseness of your religion has nothing to do with me or my knowledge. The fact is that if Jesus ever even existed, he died a cultist and nothing more. He did not rise from the dead. He does not talk to you. Anyone who thinks he does is deranged and delusional, by definition.

PeopleUnited says

If you cannot tell us the source of evil, the root of injustice, who are you to tell us the solution to injustice is secularism?

I'm someone who reads scientific articles, and the science is the authority. Observation and experimentation is the reason why "my" arguments have credibility. Of course, they aren't actually my arguments. They are scientific theories -- and theory does not mean guess -- that are backed up with empirical evidence. This puts those theories on par with gravity, electrodynamics, and all the other science that makes air travel, the Internet, and medicine work.

In contrast, you have stupid superstitions with no evidence to back them up.

PeopleUnited says

Furthermore where is the secular society that has evolved to the point where the evils you attribute to religion are not also prevalent?

Translation: Rape happens everywhere in the world, so rape clubs can't be a bad thing.

Rape does not happen uniformly everywhere. Neither do the evils created by religion. Culture matters. If you want to know what a truly religious culture is like, look towards the Middle East.

PeopleUnited says

There is no place on earth, now, in the past and I dare argue in the future where secularism will result in the utopia you so desire.

This is a cop out. It is always a cop out and a straw man to accuse your opponent of claiming a utopia when he did not. I never claimed a utopia, just a great improvement which is confirmed by the progress of the past 400 years of history.

The only person claiming utopias are the religious. Utopias cannot exist, not even in principle. So the utopia of heaven could never exist. What person would be happy in a heaven living with his or her rapist? What mother would be happy in heaven while her child is in hell? The utopia of heaven could not possibly exist.

PeopleUnited says

The reason is that the evils you attribute to religion do not originate from religion.

Bullshit. When Christians hold up "God hates fags" signs and back that claim up with Bible verses, it is intrinsic to their religion. You are whitewashing your religion.

PeopleUnited says

According to the left, we must hold people accountable for the thoughts they think.

1. The left is conservative, which is why they believe this.
2. The right believes the same damn thing just with different triggers.
3. Christianity has always had "thought crimes" punished with eternal damnation. Not believing in your false god is a thought crime, and Christians say those guilty of the thoughts of disbelief burn in hell for all eternity.

Every argument you have made is hypocritical.

PeopleUnited says

Thought crime seeks to prosecute the REASON people commit crime.

Take that up with the courts. They do consider intent and forethought when deciding among first degree murder, second degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, and involuntary manslaughter.

PeopleUnited says

Only a hypocrite would equate Islam with the other world religions while simultaneously arguing that mathematics and engineering are not sciences.

How the fuck are those two things related?

Plus, I did not equate Islam with other religions. I do not even equate the specific religions within Islam with other religions within Islam.

I have stated that all religions share the same fundamental flaw, faith, which by definition is the core of religion. Faith, the belief without evidence and even despite counter-evidence, is inherently bad. You have demonstrated how faith makes people irrational throughout this thread.

PeopleUnited says

Fine, math uses a priori logic. On the other hand scientific method is based on observation rather than deduction. And scientists use math and observation to better describe and understand the natural world. And engineers use math and observation to create new ways of solving problems. But at the end of the day you are just arguing semantics.

Do you even read what you write? That's semantics in the same way that cats and submarines are different only in semantics.

PeopleUnited says

What you fail to acknowledge is that math, science, and engineering are things that humans as intelligent beings do. It takes an intelligent being to observe and record those observations. It takes an intelligent being to use a priori logic.

The square root of two is an irrational number regardless of whether or not human beings ever existed to discover this truth. The truth of a priori statements has nothing to do with the existence of human beings. The laws of physics, although not a priori as far as we know, also have nothing to do with the existences of human beings. In contrast, the fairy tales you tell have everything to do with shit some dumb human with despicable agendas made up.

[stupid comment limit]

PeopleUnited says

The reason Dan, that you cannot tell us why humans do evil using math, science and engineering as you so boldly claim, is that math, science and engineering are also human actions.

That does not follow at all. Psychology, especially evolutionary psychology, most certainly does explain human behavior. The more these sciences advance, the more detailed their explanations are, and the better we can use this knowledge to make the world a better place.

In contrast, religion has done nothing but held back morality. The greatest moral issue of our time is climate change, and yet Christianity specifically holds back our society from dealing with this moral issue. There is nothing more immoral that permanently impoverishing and threatening the existence of future generations.

PeopleUnited says

God on the other hand makes it easy to understand why humans do evil. He tells us in His word that every human being is corrupt and in need of a Savior.

That explains NOTHING. Being brainwashed is not the same thing as understanding a subject. There is nothing enlightening about anything in the Bible including the crappy verses you quoted. They add zero understanding.

PeopleUnited says

The Holocaust, while being a horrible act of violence against all of humanity, was not the cause of World War II.

I did not state it was, and you are changing the conversation. Religion most certainly was a vehicle for Hitler's and the Nazi's rise to power. To deny that is a lie.

PeopleUnited says

It is a simple question. What motivates a priest to molest?

The failure of Christianity to turn it's most devout followers into good human beings.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

Dan you have claimed moral superiority to people you call religious.

Where?

So you deny that you have said that religion is immoral or that religion does not live up to your morality?

Strategist says

PeopleUnited says

It is a simple question. What motivates a priest to molest?

The failure of Christianity to turn it's most devout followers into good human beings.

Exactly! Religion cannot save anyone. I actually hate religion almost as much as Dan. But I recognize that we need to allow people to believe what they want to believe even if it is destructive. I say religion cannot save anyone because it cannot, only Jesus can save. And religion is what people do to try and please or serve God. In reality there is nothing you can do to please God. That is there is nothing you can do to earn His favor. He wants to help everyone, to forgive everyone, but in order to be forgiven you must first accept that 1. you are a sinner worthy of condemnation 2. that Jesus paid the price of your condemnation on the cross and rose again to conquer death for you, that though you may die, yet shall you live also.

PeopleUnited says

Religion cannot save anyone.

Christianity saves millions of people in our day and age.

FortWayne says

PeopleUnited says

Religion cannot save anyone.

Christianity saves millions of people in our day and age.

Well, I know what you mean, but it is not the religion. It is Jesus. There will be more "christians" in hell than there will be Christians in Heaven.

Matthew 7

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Dan8267 says

That does not follow at all. Psychology, especially evolutionary psychology, most certainly does explain human behavior. The more these sciences advance, the more detailed their explanations are, and the better we can use this knowledge to make the world a better place.

So why are these sciences not teaching us all to be better humans? It seems to me that academia is actually pushing a far left conservative agenda and creating more problems than it is solving (engineers and other scientists may be the the exception however even engineers cannot guarantee that their solutions will not be used for evil).

Dan8267 says

Translation: Rape happens everywhere in the world, so rape clubs can't be a bad thing.

Rape does not happen uniformly everywhere. Neither do the evils created by religion. Culture matters. If you want to know what a truly religious culture is like, look towards the Middle East.

Straw man, and cop out. but I do agree that culture matters. Early America (pre 1963) was a religious culture. In 1962 and 1963 two court cases had long term implications.

On June 25, 1962, the United States Supreme Court decided in Engel v. Vitale that a prayer approved by the New York Board of Regents for use in schools violated the First Amendment because it represented establishment of religion. In 1963, in Abington School District v. Schempp, the court decided against Bible readings in public schools along the same lines.

Since 1963, Jeynes said there have been five negative developments in the nation’s public schools:

• Academic achievement has plummeted, including SAT scores.

• Increased rate of out-of-wedlock births

• Increase in illegal drug use

• Increase in juvenile crime

• Deterioration of school behavior

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/education-expert-removing-bible-prayer-public-schools-has-caused-decline

There are consequences to the secular culture of modern America.

PeopleUnited says

He wants to help everyone, to forgive everyone, but in order to be forgiven you must first accept that 1. you are a sinner worthy of condemnation 2. that Jesus paid the price of your condemnation on the cross and rose again to conquer death for you, that though you may die, yet shall you live also.

For me to accept this Jesus Christ nonsense he or anyone would have to prove above 1. and 2.

He has proved it. The only question is will you accept it before it is too late? You are free to reject it till your dying breath, however you are free to accept it till then as well.

2 Peter 3King James Version (KJV)

3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

PeopleUnited says

He has proved it. The only question is will you accept it before it is too late? You are free to reject it till your dying breath, however you are free to accept it till then as well.

2 Peter 3King James Version (KJV)

3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed wit...

I said PROOF, not bullshit.

So you are choosing ignorance. It will unfortunately come back to you some day. The truth can be ignored but it cannot be destroyed.

PeopleUnited says

So you are choosing ignorance. It will unfortunately come back to you some day. The truth can be ignored but it cannot be destroyed.

So no proof. LOL.

Strategist says

PeopleUnited says

So you are choosing ignorance. It will unfortunately come back to you some day. The truth can be ignored but it cannot be destroyed.

So no proof. LOL.

Here's your proof ... many centuries before Christianity, the ancient Persians (READ: Not Muslim, but Zoroastrian) had an Avestan term for Savior, the Saoshyant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saoshyant

And then, in their own 'Book of Revelations', ok, it wasn't called that before the Roman Empire ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frashokereti

Excerpt: "At the end of the "third time" (the first being the age of creation, the second of mixture, and the third of separation), there will be a great battle between the forces of good (the yazatas) and those of evil (the daevas) in which the good will triumph. On earth, the Saoshyant will bring about a resurrection of the dead in the bodies they had before they died. This is followed by a last judgment through ordeal. The yazatas Airyaman and Atar will melt the metal in the hills and mountains, and the molten metal will then flow across the earth like a river. All mankind—both the living and the resurrected dead—will be required to wade through that river, but for the righteous (ashavan) it will seem to be a river of warm milk, while the wicked will be burned."

Strategist, are you noticing a pattern here?

PeopleUnited says

The truth can be ignored but it cannot be destroyed.

Sounds more like plagiarism.

PeopleUnited says

So you deny that you have said that religion is immoral or that religion does not live up to your morality?

Religion isn't a being. It's not a decision maker. It has no thoughts.

Religion is just a mechanism for brainwashing people into following other selfish and evil people.

PeopleUnited says

But I recognize that we need to allow people to believe what they want to believe even if it is destructive.

Tell that to the U.S. government when it forced the Japanese emperor to declare that he was not a god to the Japanese people after Japan's defeat in WWII. Tell that to everyone trying to get Muslims to not believe their false god demands the blood of infidels. Tell that to those working to stop honor killings of rape victims.

FortWayne says

Christianity saves millions of people in our day and age.

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

PeopleUnited says

So why are these sciences not teaching us all to be better humans?

The subject of science is understanding. Morality should be taught based on science, not superstitions. Religion in general, and Christianity in particular, has done a lousy job of teaching morality. Scientists have proposed moral teachings based on scientific knowledge. For example, Jane Goodall demonstrated that chimpanzees are as sentient as humans and deserve what we call human rights. You can literally have a conversation with a chimp using sign language.

PeopleUnited says

Furthermore where is the secular society that has evolved to the point where the evils you attribute to religion are not also prevalent?

Dan8267 says

>Translation: Rape happens everywhere in the world, so rape clubs can't be a bad thing.

>Rape does not happen uniformly everywhere. Neither do the evils created by religion. Culture matters. If you want to know what a truly religious culture is like, look towards the Middle East.

PeopleUnited says

Straw man, and cop out.

Your original argument is. My response is not.

PeopleUnited says

Since 1963, Jeynes said there have been five negative developments in the nation’s public schools:....

There are consequences to the secular culture of modern America.

Atheists make up 3.1% of the American population and only 0.07% of the prison population. Meanwhile, Christians make up 75% of the American population and 97% of the prison population. There are consequences to religious indoctrination.

Strategist says

PeopleUnited says

So you are choosing ignorance. It will unfortunately come back to you some day. The truth can be ignored but it cannot be destroyed.

So no proof. LOL.

Verse 5 tells about people who scoff at historic accounts, and all the supporting evidence.

The Source that makes the claims says those who scoff at the Source's Claims are Fools. Circular Reasoning.

Does no one else see the connection between PeopleUnited's brainwash absolute acceptance of fairy tales and the same thing in the Muslim world? You cannot fight irrationality with more irrationality. You can only fight irrationality with rationality, and you can only do that by preventing the virus of irrationality from infecting the next generation.

PeopleUnited says

Verse 5 tells about people who scoff at historic accounts, and all the supporting evidence.

The only historical account (plus zero evidence) from those years are from the Roman citizen (but Jewish ethnic) historian, Flavius Josephus, born a few years after Christ's death.

If Joe had actually met Jesus or any of his disciples, then perhaps, his testimony may have been valid.

Dan8267 says

connection between PeopleUnited's brainwash absolute acceptance of fairy tales and the same thing in the Muslim world?

Of course, he can't even respond to a single response about Zoroastrianism or even the issue of channeling, where in effect, Paul of Tarsus, as a channeler, is not too distinct from let's say, Shirley MacLaine, with her New Age bullshit.

Rin says

Excerpt: "At the end of the "third time" (the first being the age of creation, the second of mixture, and the third of separation), there will be a great battle between the forces of good (the yazatas) and those of evil (the daevas) in which the good will triumph. On earth, the Saoshyant will bring about a resurrection of the dead in the bodies they had before they died. This is followed by a last judgment through ordeal. The yazatas Airyaman and Atar will melt the metal in the hills and mountains, and the molten metal will then flow across the earth like a river. All mankind—both the living and the resurrected dead—will be required to wade through that river, but for the righteous (ashavan) it will seem to be a river of warm milk, while the wicked will be burned."

Strategist, are you noticing a pattern here?

No. This is Greek to me.

Dan8267 says

Does no one else see the connection between PeopleUnited's brainwash absolute acceptance of fairy tales and the same thing in the Muslim world?

It's exactly the same. Just like every other religion.

Strategist says

No. This is Greek to me.

Let me help ... in this case, ancient Persian (Avestan), translates first to ancient Greek, and then, Latin.

In other words, it's the same stories but shuffled about among ancient societies.

PeopleUnited says

So no proof. LOL.

Verse 5 tells about people who scoff at historic accounts, and all the supporting evidence.

Bible believers scoff at science even though supporting evidence is provided in grade 2 science books. e.g.
The earth revolves around the sun.
Evolution is real.
The earth is billions of years old.

PeopleUnited says

So you are choosing ignorance.

Nobody here has ignored you Vaticanus. To the contrary, several seem to know more than you do about your professed beliefs, including the origins thereof. People who choose to believe in geocentrism, as the Vatican censored Copernicus and commanded Galileo to recant heliocentrism, are choosing ignorance. People who choose to side with religion over science are choosing a source of ignorance over a source of knowledge. It's a common problem: sadly many people choose to believe the earth is only 7,000 years old, that evolution never happened, and only opposite-sex couples have a right to the equal protection of the laws governing marriage. It is however a less lethal problem than Islam.

curious2 says

Nobody here has ignored you Vaticanus.

PeopleUnited sounds like a channeler, not different from let's say Shirley Maclaine, who believes in some spiritual entities, telling him/her, what to do.

The only difference is that PU is among the Christian mainstream whereas Shirley is among the New Age fringe.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

The Source that makes the claims says those who scoff at the Source's Claims are Fools. Circular Reasoning.

The source is Gods word. I agree that those who scoff at it are fools. It is unreasonable to question God or His word, He has ALWAYS proven faithful and by comparison every other source has proven unreliable.

PeopleUnited says

TwoScoopsMcGee says

The Source that makes the claims says those who scoff at the Source's Claims are Fools. Circular Reasoning.

The source is Gods word. I agree that those who scoff at it are fools. It is unreasonable to question God or His word, He has ALWAYS proven faithful and by comparison every other source has proven unreliable.

Ha ha ha. So you believe God's word about the earth being 6,000 years old.

PeopleUnited says

He has ALWAYS proven faithful and by comparison every other source has proven unreliable.

That's either B.S. or confirmation bias. Ask the Israelites about their struggles to retain and regain the "holy land" that the OT supposedly promised them "for an everlasting possession." The NT predicted judgment day would happen within the lifetime of the generation then living, then John postponed that 1k years in Revelation, which caused the Y1K panic among Christians. Many sources have proven much more reliable than the Vatican Bible. Even the Mayan calander went to 2012, more than 1k yrs more reliable than the NT.

curious2 says

PeopleUnited says

He has ALWAYS proven faithful and by comparison every other source has proven unreliable.

That's either B.S. or confirmation bias. Ask the Israelites about their struggles to retain and regain the "holy land" that the OT supposedly promised them. The NT predicted judgment day would happen within the lifetime of the generation then living, then John postponed that 1k years in Revelation, which caused the Y1K panic in monasteries. Many sources have proven much more reliable than the Vatican Bible. Even the Mayan calander went to 2012, more than 1k yrs more reliable than the NT.

Your lack of knowledge and understanding does not make Gods word untrue. Your false statements regarding scripture do not change the truth God has revealed. His promises will be kept, including His promises to you.
Matthew chapter 11

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

PeopleUnited says

false statements regarding scripture

Read Matthew 24:

28...For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

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34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Then read Revelation 20:

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You make false statements regarding scripture because you read only what you are told to read and want to believe. You are thus deceived, and you continue to deceive yourself and others. You fell in love with a lie. Try reading the whole thing, from beginning to end, as I did.

Pay particular attention to Revelation 22:15.

"For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

You wrote that you "hate religion," and yet you have fallen in love with a religious lie, which you continue to make. Learn to love your fellow man, even the gay married couples whose legal equality drives you to such distraction that you changed your avatar to a toilet sign.

The prophecy you quote are yet to be fulfilled, your lack of understanding regarding when they will happen does not change the promise.

As to lies you are the one spreading them here.

Contrary to popular dogma from religious zealots, God loves all people, and I do my best to follow the example. Equality yes by all means let's have equality. Lets just not have the state licensing who can or cannot marry.

PeopleUnited says

It is unreasonable to question God or His word, He has ALWAYS proven faithful and by comparison every other source has proven unreliable.

Dear PeopleUnited,
If you were born in Saudi Arabia, you would be an Imam preaching hate and violence. You would proudly ask your followers to become suicide bombers.

Strategist says

PeopleUnited says

It is unreasonable to question God or His word, He has ALWAYS proven faithful and by comparison every other source has proven unreliable.

Dear PeopleUnited,

If you were born in Saudi Arabia, you would be an Imam preaching hate and violence. You would proudly ask your followers to become suicide bombers.

I concur because at least other channellers, like let's say Emanuel Swedenborg, have regular meetings with angels, giving 'em the state of the union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg

PU & his deity simply think that they can rule by fear alone. I believe that that's what Governor Tarkin did, during Rogue One & the first Star Wars, where the Death Star was divine retribution for rebellious planets.

Dan8267 says

The subject of science is understanding. Morality should be taught based on science, not superstitions. Religion in general, and Christianity in particular, has done a lousy job of teaching morality. Scientists have proposed moral teachings based on scientific knowledge. For example, Jane Goodall demonstrated that chimpanzees are as sentient as humans and deserve what we call human rights. You can literally have a conversation with a chimp using sign language.

The subject of science is sometimes understanding. Sometimes the subject of science is to use circular reasoning to proclaim a predetermined "truth." For example, the true scientists looks at billions of dead things, buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth and sees this as evidence of a worldwide flood. The "evolutionary" scientist views the fossils and says that billions of years passed between the deposition of the animals in each layer (this despite the fact that it was clearly a catastrophic event the buried the organisms in the first place. You ask an evolutionary scientist how they age the layers and they will tell you that the age of the layers is determined by which fossils are found in each layer. If you ask them how they know the age the the fossil, they will say it is based on the layer in which it is found. They are circular reasoning professionals! The true scientist however sees the layers as evidence that the catastrophic flood event produced layers of mud (which turned to rock). This mud tended to bury the animals that lived at lower elevation such as on or near the ocean floor, deeper than the animals that lived on the shore. And the animals that lived on the shore tended to be buried deeper than the animals that lived further upland, just as you would expect in the event of a world wild catastrophic flood.