patrick.net

PeopleUnited says

The reason Dan, that you cannot tell us why humans do evil using math, science and engineering as you so boldly claim, is that math, science and engineering are also human actions.

That does not follow at all. Psychology, especially evolutionary psychology, most certainly does explain human behavior. The more these sciences advance, the more detailed their explanations are, and the better we can use this knowledge to make the world a better place.

In contrast, religion has done nothing but held back morality. The greatest moral issue of our time is climate change, and yet Christianity specifically holds back our society from dealing with this moral issue. There is nothing more immoral that permanently impoverishing and threatening the existence of future generations.

PeopleUnited says

God on the other hand makes it easy to understand why humans do evil. He tells us in His word that every human being is corrupt and in need of a Savior.

That explains NOTHING. Being brainwashed is not the same thing as understanding a subject. There is nothing enlightening about anything in the Bible including the crappy verses you quoted. They add zero understanding.

PeopleUnited says

The Holocaust, while being a horrible act of violence against all of humanity, was not the cause of World War II.

I did not state it was, and you are changing the conversation. Religion most certainly was a vehicle for Hitler's and the Nazi's rise to power. To deny that is a lie.

PeopleUnited says

It is a simple question. What motivates a priest to molest?

The failure of Christianity to turn it's most devout followers into good human beings.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

Dan you have claimed moral superiority to people you call religious.

Where?

So you deny that you have said that religion is immoral or that religion does not live up to your morality?

Strategist says

PeopleUnited says

It is a simple question. What motivates a priest to molest?

The failure of Christianity to turn it's most devout followers into good human beings.

Exactly! Religion cannot save anyone. I actually hate religion almost as much as Dan. But I recognize that we need to allow people to believe what they want to believe even if it is destructive. I say religion cannot save anyone because it cannot, only Jesus can save. And religion is what people do to try and please or serve God. In reality there is nothing you can do to please God. That is there is nothing you can do to earn His favor. He wants to help everyone, to forgive everyone, but in order to be forgiven you must first accept that 1. you are a sinner worthy of condemnation 2. that Jesus paid the price of your condemnation on the cross and rose again to conquer death for you, that though you may die, yet shall you live also.

PeopleUnited says

Religion cannot save anyone.

Christianity saves millions of people in our day and age.

FortWayne says

PeopleUnited says

Religion cannot save anyone.

Christianity saves millions of people in our day and age.

Well, I know what you mean, but it is not the religion. It is Jesus. There will be more "christians" in hell than there will be Christians in Heaven.

Matthew 7

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Dan8267 says

That does not follow at all. Psychology, especially evolutionary psychology, most certainly does explain human behavior. The more these sciences advance, the more detailed their explanations are, and the better we can use this knowledge to make the world a better place.

So why are these sciences not teaching us all to be better humans? It seems to me that academia is actually pushing a far left conservative agenda and creating more problems than it is solving (engineers and other scientists may be the the exception however even engineers cannot guarantee that their solutions will not be used for evil).

Dan8267 says

Translation: Rape happens everywhere in the world, so rape clubs can't be a bad thing.

Rape does not happen uniformly everywhere. Neither do the evils created by religion. Culture matters. If you want to know what a truly religious culture is like, look towards the Middle East.

Straw man, and cop out. but I do agree that culture matters. Early America (pre 1963) was a religious culture. In 1962 and 1963 two court cases had long term implications.

On June 25, 1962, the United States Supreme Court decided in Engel v. Vitale that a prayer approved by the New York Board of Regents for use in schools violated the First Amendment because it represented establishment of religion. In 1963, in Abington School District v. Schempp, the court decided against Bible readings in public schools along the same lines.

Since 1963, Jeynes said there have been five negative developments in the nation’s public schools:

• Academic achievement has plummeted, including SAT scores.

• Increased rate of out-of-wedlock births

• Increase in illegal drug use

• Increase in juvenile crime

• Deterioration of school behavior

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/education-expert-removing-bible-prayer-public-schools-has-caused-decline

There are consequences to the secular culture of modern America.

PeopleUnited says

He wants to help everyone, to forgive everyone, but in order to be forgiven you must first accept that 1. you are a sinner worthy of condemnation 2. that Jesus paid the price of your condemnation on the cross and rose again to conquer death for you, that though you may die, yet shall you live also.

For me to accept this Jesus Christ nonsense he or anyone would have to prove above 1. and 2.

He has proved it. The only question is will you accept it before it is too late? You are free to reject it till your dying breath, however you are free to accept it till then as well.

2 Peter 3King James Version (KJV)

3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

PeopleUnited says

He has proved it. The only question is will you accept it before it is too late? You are free to reject it till your dying breath, however you are free to accept it till then as well.

2 Peter 3King James Version (KJV)

3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed wit...

I said PROOF, not bullshit.

So you are choosing ignorance. It will unfortunately come back to you some day. The truth can be ignored but it cannot be destroyed.

PeopleUnited says

So you are choosing ignorance. It will unfortunately come back to you some day. The truth can be ignored but it cannot be destroyed.

So no proof. LOL.

Strategist says

PeopleUnited says

So you are choosing ignorance. It will unfortunately come back to you some day. The truth can be ignored but it cannot be destroyed.

So no proof. LOL.

Here's your proof ... many centuries before Christianity, the ancient Persians (READ: Not Muslim, but Zoroastrian) had an Avestan term for Savior, the Saoshyant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saoshyant

And then, in their own 'Book of Revelations', ok, it wasn't called that before the Roman Empire ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frashokereti

Excerpt: "At the end of the "third time" (the first being the age of creation, the second of mixture, and the third of separation), there will be a great battle between the forces of good (the yazatas) and those of evil (the daevas) in which the good will triumph. On earth, the Saoshyant will bring about a resurrection of the dead in the bodies they had before they died. This is followed by a last judgment through ordeal. The yazatas Airyaman and Atar will melt the metal in the hills and mountains, and the molten metal will then flow across the earth like a river. All mankind—both the living and the resurrected dead—will be required to wade through that river, but for the righteous (ashavan) it will seem to be a river of warm milk, while the wicked will be burned."

Strategist, are you noticing a pattern here?

PeopleUnited says

The truth can be ignored but it cannot be destroyed.

Sounds more like plagiarism.

PeopleUnited says

So you deny that you have said that religion is immoral or that religion does not live up to your morality?

Religion isn't a being. It's not a decision maker. It has no thoughts.

Religion is just a mechanism for brainwashing people into following other selfish and evil people.

PeopleUnited says

But I recognize that we need to allow people to believe what they want to believe even if it is destructive.

Tell that to the U.S. government when it forced the Japanese emperor to declare that he was not a god to the Japanese people after Japan's defeat in WWII. Tell that to everyone trying to get Muslims to not believe their false god demands the blood of infidels. Tell that to those working to stop honor killings of rape victims.

FortWayne says

Christianity saves millions of people in our day and age.

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

PeopleUnited says

So why are these sciences not teaching us all to be better humans?

The subject of science is understanding. Morality should be taught based on science, not superstitions. Religion in general, and Christianity in particular, has done a lousy job of teaching morality. Scientists have proposed moral teachings based on scientific knowledge. For example, Jane Goodall demonstrated that chimpanzees are as sentient as humans and deserve what we call human rights. You can literally have a conversation with a chimp using sign language.

PeopleUnited says

Furthermore where is the secular society that has evolved to the point where the evils you attribute to religion are not also prevalent?

Dan8267 says

>Translation: Rape happens everywhere in the world, so rape clubs can't be a bad thing.

>Rape does not happen uniformly everywhere. Neither do the evils created by religion. Culture matters. If you want to know what a truly religious culture is like, look towards the Middle East.

PeopleUnited says

Straw man, and cop out.

Your original argument is. My response is not.

PeopleUnited says

Since 1963, Jeynes said there have been five negative developments in the nation’s public schools:....

There are consequences to the secular culture of modern America.

Atheists make up 3.1% of the American population and only 0.07% of the prison population. Meanwhile, Christians make up 75% of the American population and 97% of the prison population. There are consequences to religious indoctrination.

Strategist says

PeopleUnited says

So you are choosing ignorance. It will unfortunately come back to you some day. The truth can be ignored but it cannot be destroyed.

So no proof. LOL.

Verse 5 tells about people who scoff at historic accounts, and all the supporting evidence.

The Source that makes the claims says those who scoff at the Source's Claims are Fools. Circular Reasoning.

Does no one else see the connection between PeopleUnited's brainwash absolute acceptance of fairy tales and the same thing in the Muslim world? You cannot fight irrationality with more irrationality. You can only fight irrationality with rationality, and you can only do that by preventing the virus of irrationality from infecting the next generation.

PeopleUnited says

Verse 5 tells about people who scoff at historic accounts, and all the supporting evidence.

The only historical account (plus zero evidence) from those years are from the Roman citizen (but Jewish ethnic) historian, Flavius Josephus, born a few years after Christ's death.

If Joe had actually met Jesus or any of his disciples, then perhaps, his testimony may have been valid.

Dan8267 says

connection between PeopleUnited's brainwash absolute acceptance of fairy tales and the same thing in the Muslim world?

Of course, he can't even respond to a single response about Zoroastrianism or even the issue of channeling, where in effect, Paul of Tarsus, as a channeler, is not too distinct from let's say, Shirley MacLaine, with her New Age bullshit.

Rin says

Excerpt: "At the end of the "third time" (the first being the age of creation, the second of mixture, and the third of separation), there will be a great battle between the forces of good (the yazatas) and those of evil (the daevas) in which the good will triumph. On earth, the Saoshyant will bring about a resurrection of the dead in the bodies they had before they died. This is followed by a last judgment through ordeal. The yazatas Airyaman and Atar will melt the metal in the hills and mountains, and the molten metal will then flow across the earth like a river. All mankind—both the living and the resurrected dead—will be required to wade through that river, but for the righteous (ashavan) it will seem to be a river of warm milk, while the wicked will be burned."

Strategist, are you noticing a pattern here?

No. This is Greek to me.

Dan8267 says

Does no one else see the connection between PeopleUnited's brainwash absolute acceptance of fairy tales and the same thing in the Muslim world?

It's exactly the same. Just like every other religion.

Strategist says

No. This is Greek to me.

Let me help ... in this case, ancient Persian (Avestan), translates first to ancient Greek, and then, Latin.

In other words, it's the same stories but shuffled about among ancient societies.

PeopleUnited says

So no proof. LOL.

Verse 5 tells about people who scoff at historic accounts, and all the supporting evidence.

Bible believers scoff at science even though supporting evidence is provided in grade 2 science books. e.g.
The earth revolves around the sun.
Evolution is real.
The earth is billions of years old.

PeopleUnited says

So you are choosing ignorance.

Nobody here has ignored you Vaticanus. To the contrary, several seem to know more than you do about your professed beliefs, including the origins thereof. People who choose to believe in geocentrism, as the Vatican censored Copernicus and commanded Galileo to recant heliocentrism, are choosing ignorance. People who choose to side with religion over science are choosing a source of ignorance over a source of knowledge. It's a common problem: sadly many people choose to believe the earth is only 7,000 years old, that evolution never happened, and only opposite-sex couples have a right to the equal protection of the laws governing marriage. It is however a less lethal problem than Islam.

curious2 says

Nobody here has ignored you Vaticanus.

PeopleUnited sounds like a channeler, not different from let's say Shirley Maclaine, who believes in some spiritual entities, telling him/her, what to do.

The only difference is that PU is among the Christian mainstream whereas Shirley is among the New Age fringe.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

The Source that makes the claims says those who scoff at the Source's Claims are Fools. Circular Reasoning.

The source is Gods word. I agree that those who scoff at it are fools. It is unreasonable to question God or His word, He has ALWAYS proven faithful and by comparison every other source has proven unreliable.

PeopleUnited says

TwoScoopsMcGee says

The Source that makes the claims says those who scoff at the Source's Claims are Fools. Circular Reasoning.

The source is Gods word. I agree that those who scoff at it are fools. It is unreasonable to question God or His word, He has ALWAYS proven faithful and by comparison every other source has proven unreliable.

Ha ha ha. So you believe God's word about the earth being 6,000 years old.

PeopleUnited says

He has ALWAYS proven faithful and by comparison every other source has proven unreliable.

That's either B.S. or confirmation bias. Ask the Israelites about their struggles to retain and regain the "holy land" that the OT supposedly promised them "for an everlasting possession." The NT predicted judgment day would happen within the lifetime of the generation then living, then John postponed that 1k years in Revelation, which caused the Y1K panic among Christians. Many sources have proven much more reliable than the Vatican Bible. Even the Mayan calander went to 2012, more than 1k yrs more reliable than the NT.

curious2 says

PeopleUnited says

He has ALWAYS proven faithful and by comparison every other source has proven unreliable.

That's either B.S. or confirmation bias. Ask the Israelites about their struggles to retain and regain the "holy land" that the OT supposedly promised them. The NT predicted judgment day would happen within the lifetime of the generation then living, then John postponed that 1k years in Revelation, which caused the Y1K panic in monasteries. Many sources have proven much more reliable than the Vatican Bible. Even the Mayan calander went to 2012, more than 1k yrs more reliable than the NT.

Your lack of knowledge and understanding does not make Gods word untrue. Your false statements regarding scripture do not change the truth God has revealed. His promises will be kept, including His promises to you.
Matthew chapter 11

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

PeopleUnited says

false statements regarding scripture

Read Matthew 24:

28...For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

***
34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Then read Revelation 20:

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You make false statements regarding scripture because you read only what you are told to read and want to believe. You are thus deceived, and you continue to deceive yourself and others. You fell in love with a lie. Try reading the whole thing, from beginning to end, as I did.

Pay particular attention to Revelation 22:15.

"For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

You wrote that you "hate religion," and yet you have fallen in love with a religious lie, which you continue to make. Learn to love your fellow man, even the gay married couples whose legal equality drives you to such distraction that you changed your avatar to a toilet sign.

The prophecy you quote are yet to be fulfilled, your lack of understanding regarding when they will happen does not change the promise.

As to lies you are the one spreading them here.

Contrary to popular dogma from religious zealots, God loves all people, and I do my best to follow the example. Equality yes by all means let's have equality. Lets just not have the state licensing who can or cannot marry.

PeopleUnited says

It is unreasonable to question God or His word, He has ALWAYS proven faithful and by comparison every other source has proven unreliable.

Dear PeopleUnited,
If you were born in Saudi Arabia, you would be an Imam preaching hate and violence. You would proudly ask your followers to become suicide bombers.

Strategist says

PeopleUnited says

It is unreasonable to question God or His word, He has ALWAYS proven faithful and by comparison every other source has proven unreliable.

Dear PeopleUnited,

If you were born in Saudi Arabia, you would be an Imam preaching hate and violence. You would proudly ask your followers to become suicide bombers.

I concur because at least other channellers, like let's say Emanuel Swedenborg, have regular meetings with angels, giving 'em the state of the union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg

PU & his deity simply think that they can rule by fear alone. I believe that that's what Governor Tarkin did, during Rogue One & the first Star Wars, where the Death Star was divine retribution for rebellious planets.

Dan8267 says

The subject of science is understanding. Morality should be taught based on science, not superstitions. Religion in general, and Christianity in particular, has done a lousy job of teaching morality. Scientists have proposed moral teachings based on scientific knowledge. For example, Jane Goodall demonstrated that chimpanzees are as sentient as humans and deserve what we call human rights. You can literally have a conversation with a chimp using sign language.

The subject of science is sometimes understanding. Sometimes the subject of science is to use circular reasoning to proclaim a predetermined "truth." For example, the true scientists looks at billions of dead things, buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth and sees this as evidence of a worldwide flood. The "evolutionary" scientist views the fossils and says that billions of years passed between the deposition of the animals in each layer (this despite the fact that it was clearly a catastrophic event the buried the organisms in the first place. You ask an evolutionary scientist how they age the layers and they will tell you that the age of the layers is determined by which fossils are found in each layer. If you ask them how they know the age the the fossil, they will say it is based on the layer in which it is found. They are circular reasoning professionals! The true scientist however sees the layers as evidence that the catastrophic flood event produced layers of mud (which turned to rock). This mud tended to bury the animals that lived at lower elevation such as on or near the ocean floor, deeper than the animals that lived on the shore. And the animals that lived on the shore tended to be buried deeper than the animals that lived further upland, just as you would expect in the event of a world wild catastrophic flood.

Strategist says

PeopleUnited says

It is unreasonable to question God or His word, He has ALWAYS proven faithful and by comparison every other source has proven unreliable.

Dear PeopleUnited,

If you were born in Saudi Arabia, you would be an Imam preaching hate and violence. You would proudly ask your followers to become suicide bombers.

So fortune teller, what would you be if you were born in Saudi?

PeopleUnited says

clearly a catastrophic event the buried the organisms in the first place. You ask an evolutionary scientist how they age the layers and they will tell you that the age of the layers is determined by which fossils are found in each layer. If you ask them how they know the age the the fossil, they will say it is based on the layer in which it is found. They are circular reasoning professionals!

That's a false and misleading summary. You could really benefit from reading Dawkins or something outside of whatever echo chamber has misled you. Radiometric and other methods enable dating fossils and geologic layers.

Many fossils are of sea animals, not killed by floods; they died, settled to the bottom, and got buried in sediment. Others died other ways, e.g. landslides or volcanic ash. Layers can be determined by volcanic eruptions, asteroid impacts, and other events that spread material over a wide area. Many floods have occurred, over billions of years.

PeopleUnited says

So fortune teller

That's a nice try ... it's not clairvoyance (and thus you can't burn Strategist at the stake), it's called human psychology. You simply put in different surroundings and watch the person's psyche unfold.

And if I were born a Saudi, it's simple ... take the causeway to Bahrain on weekends ... drink and screw hoes there, where it's a former British colony.

Yes PeopleUnited, you'd be a cleric, and be involved in events just like in the "Death of a Princess" ...

https://patrick.net/1306834/2017-05-30-saudi-arabia-s-death-of-a-princess-needs-its-own-thread

PeopleUnited says

So fortune teller

Wait, aren't you also channeling a spirit entity claiming to be the messenger of god?