patrick.net

jazz_music says

Now that there is no such thing as job security, EVERYONE'S life really does depend on conforming to the dominant tribal identifications

Actually, class, not race or gender or orientation, is the tribalism of the 21st century. The rich white guy is more likely to hang out with a rich Indian or Chinese guy than a white STEM worker or a white coal miner or a white middle-tier manager. Class is everything in the 21st century.

They want to conserve the social and religious structure of the 1950s. They long ago stopped caring about conserving the environment. They sometimes say that they care about the 'real' environmental problems, but they tend to disregard the problems that environmental scientists identify as important.

Yeah, I liked that quote by justme.

Anyone who says, "Temperatures [or water levels] will rise" X, are wrong. That is not a scientific conclusion. Science is based on odds and reason. It is not about absolutes. There is almost no such thing.

Dan8267 says

None because I don't feel. I know.

This is how I know your opinion in BS. No scientist would EVER say he KNOWS something as complex as climate change model predictions. A scientist would be able to very clearly state what he knows for certain, as well as what he expects based on data. He would furthermore give standard deviations from his expectation, as well as point out the larger assumptions upon which he is basing that expectation.

No scientist would ever state "I KNOW". "I KNOW" is something a megalomaniac programmer who is desperate to prove himself smart would say.

CBOEtrader says

This is how I know your opinion in BS. No scientist would EVER say he KNOWS something as complex as climate change model predictions.

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Climate change: How do we know?

Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal.

The evidence for rapid climate change is compelling: Sea level rise, Global temperature rise, Warming oceans, Shrinking ice sheets, Declining Arctic sea ice, Glacial retreat, Extreme events, Ocean acidification, Decreased snow cover

Reality just completely contradicted your statement that "No scientist would EVER say he KNOWS something as complex as climate change model predictions". Are you willing to admit that you were wrong?

CBOEtrader says

Science is based on odds and reason. It is not about absolutes.

No, this is not how science works. You drop a penny from a height of 20 meters and science tells you with certainty how long it will take the penny to hit the ground and how fast it will be going.

jazz_music says

Successful polluters have hired the EXACT same advertising firms to sell their message.

Which firms? I'm gonna guess you pulled this out of your ass, and there is zero truth to your claim. (Like most of what you say.)

jazz_music says

and now evidently doesn't think it works.

Yet again you fail to grasp the nuance of a complex situation. Complex modeling is a tool that most humans, including scientists, fail to use properly. If the conclusion is "Temperatures willll rise X" then they aren't using complex modeling properly.

Dan8267 says

CBOEtrader says

Science is based on odds and reason. It is not about absolutes.

No, this is not how science works. You drop a penny from a height of 20 meters and science tells you with certainty how long it will take the penny to hit the ground and how fast it will be going.

The physics of a penny falling from a specific height is a mathematical formula that we can easily test and recreate over and over.

Scientific theories, otoh, can never by definition be proven. They can only be disproved.

Complex modeling used to forecast future events aren't comparable to dropping a penny. You seem smart enough to at least understand that much.

Anyone who says "I KNOW" and/or "Temperatures will X" aren't scientists and should be dismissed.

@Verified Twitter Liberals(tm):
Orange Hair!
Big Hands!
Wife was Slovak Escort Whore!
Cheeto Face!
His kid is autistic and should be beaten!

@realDonaldTrump
Mika bleeding from facelift

@Verified Twitter Liberals:
Waaaaaaauuuugh! Did you hear what HE said? Totally beyond the PALE!! Sexist!

Also it is getting tired. liberals are the jihadis-they have one position and go into fits if someone dares call them out. Hope Trump gives the cover for more people to start fighting back and calling the fools out. it is time to end this decades old PC culture.

errc says

In what way is he providing a sense of law and order? It seems that he is promoting disorder and lawlessness from what i see, so it's a dead ass honest question.

How so? He wants immigrtaion laws to be followed. he passed the executive order and took it through the courts and won -temporarily at least. Mika and Joe have been calling him names, a thug, even sang a rock song about him-yeah-Trump decided to respond in kind. No threats, just responded in kind-which the elft is not used to. They always thought they were above the fray, can do what they want and nobody dare question them or call them out. I really appreciate that.

CBOEtrader says

The physics of a penny falling from a specific height is a mathematical formula that we can easily test and recreate over and over.

Everything in the universe is math. And if we can't use math to determine climate, then WTF confidence can you have in the mathematical models of economics and stock trading? Those things are at least as complicate of systems with at least as many feedbacks as climate. Yet no one says they won't make financial decisions based on those models.

The fact is that climate change is well understood, and if we ignore the problem, it's out of foolish short-term greed, not because the models are bad. Again, I ask what exactly would it take for you to support ending pollution and mitigating climate change? I suspect there is nothing that would cause you to support the environment because you simply don't value the environment at all, and are only concerned about your immediate financial interests. That's the real issue in every debate on environmentalism. Some people just value money and don't care about other things.

Those people are foolish. Environmental management is an economic concern. The vast majority of our wealth is in the form of an extremely pleasant environment that is highly conducive to human existence. The monetary costs of restoring this environment after breaking it would be orders of magnitude greater than the short-term wealth gained by wrecking the environment. You think that anti-pollution laws are expensive? What until you see the taxes needed to terraform the Earth back to a livable state!

The fact is that the only way to get the political will to protect the environment is to tie the wealth of people like you to the protection of the environment by taxing the shit out of polluters. If people like you can steal environmental wealth from the public, then the public should have the power to redistribute your wealth back to them. Only when that happens will mankind stop being completely foolish about the global ecosystem. Just remember, if we cannot tackle this problem now with common sense anti-pollution laws, then there will have to be a massive seizure of wealth to deal with the much larger problem that we let grow.

CBOEtrader says

Scientific theories, otoh, can never by definition be proven. They can only be disproved.

Jump off the cliff if your statement means we should not have confidence in scientific theories.

The fact is that the scientific method provides far greater evidence than that used in our court systems to convict people of capital crimes. We literally sentence people to death based on evidence orders of magnitude inferior to the evidence of confirmed scientific theories.

Hell, there is far more evidence that man-made climate change is happening right now than there is that George Washington fought in the American Revolution. You have a mere dozen or so lines of relatively flimsy evidence for the General Washington theory, whereas there are literally tens of thousands of independent lines of evidence precisely confirming man-made climate change without any contradictions in the evidence from all across the world. It is far more ridiculous to deny man-made climate change than to deny that George Washington fought in the American Revolution.

#lawyered

Well there was that national enquirer thing but we all know we can't take the NI seriously!

lostand confused says

No threats, just responded in kind-which the elft is not used to. They always thought they were above the fray, can do what they want and nobody dare question them or call them out. I really appreciate that.

lostand confused says

PC culture.

PC culture is one thing, basic human dignity is an other.

Quigley says

He's not "above the fray" like Obama pretended to be (while completely ignoring the needs of his constituents). So what? Have you watched any TV lately? Nobody is that way anymore! Reality stars own the airwaves, spewing brash arrogance and stupid personal attacks.

Reality TV brought down the world to its level of stupidity and brash arrogance.
I guess we have a president we deserve.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Wife was Slovak Escort Whore!

SLOVENIAN!!!!!!

Trump's job is to be president. Mika and Joe's job is to analyze the president's performance. Mika and Joe have good reason for much of their criticism's of Trump. Trump using the power of the presidency to attack various members of the media is not his job, and it's ridiculous for him to do it. To the extent that it actually worked at getting back at them, it would be bad for the country, because it would have a chilling effect on legitimate reporting. But it doesn't work for that, because people trust the media more than they trust Trump and these skirmishes are good for the journalist's (Mika in this case) profile. According to Mika, most of Trump's tweet was a blatant lie, and there is photo proof that she wasn't bleeding post-surgery. Trump has a history of bitching about those two, because they used to be friendly and it pisses Trump off that they turned on him. This should be blatantly obvious to anyone paying attention.

A few other things this tweet betrays:
1. Trump has an infatuation with women bleeding.
2. Trump watches Morning Joe.
3. Trump hitting back '10 times harder' is very unChristian. It takes the 'an eye for an eye' phrase out of Judaic thought and ups it to 'two eyes, two ears, a nose, a mouth, both feet and both hands for an eye'. Christianity has 'turn the other cheek'. Trump's philosophy has more in common with a terrorist than a Christian, and his own wife and press secretary are using this line of though. Fucking hilarious.

YesYNot says

Mika and Joe's job is to analyze the president's performance

And their constant personal attacks on the President are outside that scope. How can you not see that? Hell, even at Patnet we have an ad hominem button. Mika and Joe would have a 50% rating if they posted their shit here!

Quigley says

And their constant personal attacks on the President are outside that scope.

Maybe some concrete examples would be of use. Just crying that everybody is attacking you all the time is not a defense. It's just bratty.

hoping for good earnings...

Because deranged old white billionaire wouldn't be brutal enough.

I think Apoc is daydreaming about eating a Trump taco with extra sour cream.

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

WHY DOES TRUMPLIGULA! LOOK LIKE A STRANGE, AGING, BRAIN-DAMAGED LESBIAN?

Because Mike Pence uses him as a cum rag every night, and every morning he has to wake up and blow Putin.

Someone is still butt hurt over the election.

He's been a democrat for too long

Translate Spanish to English.

The word in Spanish, for that Trump face that the media always uses for Trump imagery, is Trompa, pronounced Trumpa.

Dan8267 says

And if we can't use math to determine climate, then WTF confidence can you have in the mathematical models of economics and stock trading?

Its not the math that is the problem. Math is merely a tool. The problem is with the people who misuse the tool.Dan8267 says

The fact is that climate change is well understood,

You consistently think you know things that you don't know. Climate change is complex model to the point where it is impossible to know and account for every variable. Furthermore its impossible to accurately forecast the number of variables they have in their model. Therefore at best, this type of modeling will give a glimpse of what is possible. Any scientist worth a damn, will absolutely admit this AND work within the limitations of the tools AND then temper expectations accordingly.

Yet thats not what most people who discuss climate change do, including you. You think that putting numbers into a computer can predict the future. Its simple not true, not matter how much you want to wax righteously about believing in math and science.

jazz_music says

CBOEtrader says

Which firms? I'm gonna guess you pulled this out of your ass, and there is zero truth to your claim. (Like most of what you say.)

You have a lazy habit of assigning an uncompensated research project, to anyone you disagree with, as if you can't use a search engine, then pointless vulgarity and condemnation. --in other words you got nothing but talk radio tactics to back your BS and this is not your show so you lose.

Here's a good reference. Son of a whore how do you like me now? It's you pulling out your ass not me! I fucking read things. Now go see if they're an anti-republican sources so you can dismiss them. Bubble head!

http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/legacy/assets/documents/global_warming/exxon_report.pdf

You have your head so far up your own asss, its amazing. I am not a republican. I could care less about your tribal, team-based attacks. The idiots on the right do the same thing when I disagree w them.

Please point out in your "reading" where it says its the same people. Thats your claim. It should be easy to show w/o dumping a 70 page report on us.

Dan8267 says

Jump off the cliff if your statement means we should not have confidence in scientific theories.

So the earth is flat? Cause that was the educated consensus for how many years?

You turn science into a religion. Healthy skepticism is ALWAYS part of healthy science. EVERY theory should be questioned.

Dan8267 says

then the public should have the power to redistribute your wealth back to them.

This is exactly why the discussion isnt intellectually honest. Those in power see this as the ultimate worldwide power grab.

jazz_music says

This is what those in power do, they spread lies to make war for oil company gains.

http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=lauri_fitz_pegado_1

Yup. This was fake news to justify war. Its the same game CNN/NYT/WashPo are playing today w russia/syria. I'm glad we could find a point of agreement.

Amazing that you see lies like this to justify robbing us of our freedoms and wealth, then eagerly jump into giving this same establishment your freedoms and wealth for their climate change agenda.

Its all the same shit man. Its one disaster after another that the govt uses to justify their rescue measures, always involving taxing us and further eroding freedoms. See the patriot act as passed under BUSH and expanded to 1984 levels under OBAMA as the easiest example.

The fraud is probably out of this world. People who count votes aren't exactly non partisan.

CBOEtrader says

Climate change is complex model to the point where it is impossible to know and account for every variable.

If you think it is impossible for scientists to tell that the globe has been warming due to pollution and that it will continue to warm, then you are a fool. There are literally thousands of lines of independent evidence all confirming this. Feigning ignorance is no excuse.

Dan8267 says

CBOEtrader says

Science is based on odds and reason. It is not about absolutes.

No, this is not how science works. You drop a penny from a height of 20 meters and science tells you with certainty how long it will take the penny to hit the ground and how fast it will be going.

Only when all variables are accounted for. When it comes to sea levels, the variables are not all accounted for, mostly because there are so many more variables to account for and possibly some variables that are not even known. It ain't like dropping a penny from twenty feet. A simple minded fool blinded by his ideology and influenced by his tribal loyalties might make that analogy but not an honest scientist.

Dan8267 says

CBOEtrader says

Climate change is complex model to the point where it is impossible to know and account for every variable.

If you think it is impossible for scientists to tell that the globe has been warming due to pollution and that it will continue to warm, then you are a fool. There are literally thousands of lines of independent evidence all confirming this. Feigning ignorance is no excuse.

You always take statements to the absurd extreme.

I am not feigning ignorance. People pollute, and its a huge problem.

The relevant question is what do we do about it? That's where it becomes politicized and willfully misrepresented, a la "An Inconvenient Truth". It is the inconvenient truth type of liars who are entering into crap agreements like the Paris accords based on faulty interpretations of data models.

They furthermore put out propaganda which works wonders on people like you and jazz. They WANT you to think climate change is as easy as predicting the speed of penny falling through air.

The OP info graphic is exactly that type of propaganda. If they aren't telling you where their model may be wrong, and their statistical range of estimates, then they are lying to you.

PeopleUnited says

Only when all variables are accounted for.

Apply that to terrorism. Do nothing about terrorism until all variables are known. And that's never.

The bottom line is that we understand the cause and effects of climate change far better than terrorism, and we know how to stop climate change. So quite being hypocritical. A train is coming down the tracks and you refuse to get off the tracks because you don't know if they are serving martinis in the dining cart.

CBOEtrader says

The relevant question is what do we do about it?

Include the cost of cleaning up the pollution in all products that generate pollution in their creation.

In other words, stop letting the government pick winners and losers by legalizing some form of theft. This is the worst kind of socialism, socializing the cost of a few products while privatizing the profits of those products.

anonymous says

Yes, that is how stupid they are.

Our first President to give his State of the Union addresses wearing a drool bucket and Pampers.