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Islam and Violence


 invite response                
2007 Sep 11, 1:35am   609,178 views  2,852 comments

by resistance   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Originally from http://www.faithfreedom.org/

A Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins

Dear friends,

The tragic incidents of September 11 have shocked the world. It is unthinkable that anyone could be so full of hate as to commit such heinous acts and kill so many innocent people. We people of Muslim origin are as much shaken as the rest of the world and yet we find ourselves looked upon with suspicion and distrust by our neighbours and fellow citizens. We want to cry out and tell the world that we are not terrorists, and that those who perpetrate such despicable acts are murderers and not part of us. But, in reality, because of our Muslim origins we just cannot erase the stigma of Islamic Terrorism from our identity!

What most Muslims will say:

Islam would never support the killing of innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance.

What knowledgeable Muslims should say:

That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach peace, tolerance and non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently. They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who blow-up their own bodies to kill more innocent people do so because they think they will be rewarded in Paradise. They hope to be blessed by Allah, eat celestial food, drink pure wine and enjoy the company of divine consorts. Are they completely misguided? Where did they get this distorted idea? How did they come to believe that killing innocent people pleases God? Or is it that we are misguided? Does really Islam preach violence? Does it call upon its believers to kill non-believers? We denounce those who commit acts of violence and call them extremists. But are they really extremists or are they following what the holy book, the Qur'an tells them to do? What does the Qur'an teach? Have we read the Qur'an? Do we know what kind of teachings are there? Let us go through some of them and take a closer look at what Allah says.

What the Qur'an Teaches Us:

We have used the most widely available English text of the Qur'an and readers are welcome to verify our quotes from the holy book. Please have an open mind and read through these verses again and again. The following quotes are taken from the most trusted Yusufali's translation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an tells us: not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (5:51), kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (2:191), murder them and treat them harshly (9:123), fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them (8:65). Allah and his messenger want us to fight the Christians and the Jews until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued (9:29). Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us to fight the unbelievers and He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them (9:14).

The Qur'an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water (14:17). It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter (5:34). And tells us that for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods (22:19-22) and that they not only will have disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire) (22:9). The Qur'an says that those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy (25:68). For those who believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire! (48:13). Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to be harsh with unbelievers, our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours and colleagues (48:29). As for him who does not believe in Islam, the Prophet announces with a stern command: Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin. (69:30-37) The Qur'an prohibits a Muslim from befriending a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28). Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the disbelievers and their governments and strive against the unbelievers with great endeavour (25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to Hell (66:9). The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that it is good for us even if we dislike it (2:216). Then he advises us to strike off the heads of the disbelievers; and after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives (47:4). Our God has promised to instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and has ordered us to smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill in his name it is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself (8:17). He orders us to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies (8:60). He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed (9:73).

He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). He also promises boys like hidden pearls (56:24) and youth never altering in age like scattered pearls (for those who have paedophiliac inclinations) (76:19). As you see, Allah has promised all sorts or rewards, gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men who kill unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to Paradise where we shall find goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has not touched them before nor jinni (56:67-71).In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not supposed to give such freedom to anyone else because it is written If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). And He orders us to fight them on until there is no more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced everywhere (8:39). As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises to take a green branch and beat your wife, because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers allegedly raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women that in their opinion are apostates prior to killing them, as they believe a virgin will not go to Hell.

Dear fellow Muslims:Is this the Islam you believe in? Is this your Most Merciful, Most Compassionate Allah whom you worship daily? Could Allah incite you to kill other peoples? Please understand that there is no terrorist gene - but there could be a terrorist mindset. That mindset finds its most fertile ground in the tenets of Islam. Denying it, and presenting Islam to the lay public as a religion of peace similar to Buddhism, is to suppress the truth. The history of Islam between the 7th and 14th centuries is riddled with violence, fratricide and wars of aggression, starting right from the death of the Prophet and during the so-called 'pure' or orthodox caliphate. And Muhammad himself hoisted the standard of killing, looting, massacres and bloodshed. How can we deny the entire history? The behaviour of our Holy Prophet as recorded in authentic Islamic sources is quite questionable from a modern viewpoint. The Prophet was a charismatic man but he had few virtues. Imitating him in all aspects of life (following the Sunnah) is both impossible and dangerous in the 21st century. Why are we so helplessly in denial over this simple issue? When the Prophet was in Mecca and he was still not powerful enough he called for tolerance. He said To you be your religion, and to me my religion (109:6). This famous quote is often misused to prove that the general principle of Qur'an is tolerance. He advised his follower to speak good to their enemies (2: 83), exhorted them to be patient (20:103) and said that there is no compulsion in religion (2:256). But that all changed drastically when he came to power. Then killing and slaying unbelievers with harshness and without mercy was justified in innumerable verses. The verses quoted to prove Islam's tolerance ignore many other verses that bear no trace of tolerance or forgiveness. Where is tolerance in this well-known verse Alarzu Lillah, Walhukmu Lillah. (The Earth belongs to Allah and thus only Allah's rule should prevail all over the earth.).Is it normal that a book revealed by God should have so many serious contradictions? The Prophet himself set the example of unleashing violence by invading the Jewish settlements, breaking treaties he had signed with them and banishing some of them after confiscating their belongings, massacring others and taking their wives and children as slaves. He inspected the youngsters and massacred all those who had pubic hair along with the men. Those who were younger he kept as slaves. He distributed the women captured in his raids among his soldiers keeping the prettiest for himself (33:50). He made sexual advances on Safiyah, a Jewish girl on the same day he captured her town Kheibar and killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives. Reyhana was another Jewish girl of Bani Quriza whom he used as a sex slave after killing all her male relatives. In the last ten years of his life he accumulated two scores of wives, concubines and sex slaves including the 9 year old Ayesha. These are not stories but records from authentic Islamic history and the Hadiths. It can be argued that this kind of behaviour was not unknown or unusual for the conquerors and leaders of the mediaeval world but these are not the activities befitting of a peaceful saint and certainly not someone who claimed to be the Mercy of God for all creation. There were known assassinations of adversaries during the Prophet's time, which he had knowledge of and had supported. Among them there was a 120 year old man, Abu 'Afak whose only crime was to compose a lyric satirical of the Prophet. (by Ibn Sa'd Kitab al Tabaqat al Kabir, Volume 2, page 32) Then when a poetess, a mother of 5 small children 'Asma' Bint Marwan wrote a poetry cursing the Arabs for letting Muhammad assassinate an old man, our Holy Prophet ordered her to be assassinated too in the middle of the night while her youngest child was suckling from her breast. (Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guillaume's translation The Life of Muhammad) page 675, 676).The Prophet did develop a 'Robin Hood' image that justified raiding merchant caravans attacking cities and towns, killing people and looting their belongings in the name of social justice. Usama Bin Laden is also trying to create the same image. But Robin Hood didn't claim to be a prophet or a pacifist nor did he care for apologist arguments. He did not massacre innocent people indiscriminately nor did he profit by reducing free people to slaves and then trading them. With the known and documented violent legacy of Islam, how can we suddenly rediscover it as a religion of peace in the free world in the 21st century? Isn't this the perpetuation of a lie by a few ambitious leaders in order to gain political control of the huge and ignorant Muslim population? They are creating a polished version of Islam by completely ignoring history. They are propagating the same old dogma for simple believing people in a crisp new modern package. Their aim: to gain political power in today's high-tension world. They want to use the confrontational power of the original Islam to catalyse new conflicts and control new circles of power.

Dear conscientious Muslims, please question yourselves. Isn't this compulsive following of a man who lived 1400 years ago leading us to doom in a changing world? Do the followers of any other religion follow one man in such an all-encompassing way? Who are we deceiving, them or ourselves? Dear brothers and sisters, see how our Umma (people) has sunk into poverty and how it lags behind the rest of the world. Isn't it because we are following a religion that is outdated and impractical? In this crucial moment of history, when a great catastrophe has befallen us and a much bigger one is lying ahead, should not we wake up from our 1400 years of slumber and see where things have gone wrong? Hatred has filled the air and the world is bracing itself for its doomsday. Should we not ask ourselves whether we have contributed, wittingly or unwittingly, to this tragedy and whether we can stop the great disaster from happening?Unfortunately the answer to the first question is yes. Yes we have contributed to the rise of fundamentalism by merely claiming Islam is a religion of peace, by simply being a Muslim and by saying our shahada (testimony that Allah is the only God and Muhammad is his messenger). By our shahada we have recognized Muhammad as a true messenger of God and his book as the words of God. But as you saw above those words are anything but from God. They call for killing, they are prescriptions for hate and they foment intolerance. And when the ignorant among us read those hate-laden verses, they act on them and the result is the infamous September 11, human bombs in Israel, massacres in East Timor and Bangladesh, kidnappings and killings in the Philippines, slavery in the Sudan, honour killings in Pakistan and Jordan, torture in Iran, stoning and maiming in Afghanistan and Iran, violence in Algeria, terrorism in Palestine and misery and death in every Islamic country. We are responsible because we endorse Islam and hail it as a religion of God. And we are as guilty as those who put into practice what the Qur'an preaches - and ironically we are the main victims too. If we are not terrorists, if we love peace, if we cried with the rest of the word for what happened in New York, then why are we supporting the Qur'an that preaches killing, that advocates holy war, that calls for the murder of non-Muslims? It is not the extremists who have misunderstood Islam. They do literally what the Qur'an asks them to do. It is we who misunderstand Islam. We are the ones who are confused. We are the ones who wrongly assume that Islam is the religion of peace. Islam is not a religion of peace. In its so-called pure form it can very well be interpreted as a doctrine of hate. Terrorists are doing just that and we the intellectual apologists of Islam are justifying it. We can stop this madness. Yes, we can avert the disaster that is hovering over our heads. Yes, we can denounce the doctrines that promote hate. Yes, we can embrace the rest of humanity with love. Yes, we can become part of a united world, members of one human family, flowers of one garden. We can dump the claim of infallibility of our Book, and the questionable legacy of our Prophet.Dear friends, there is no time to waste. Let us put an end to this lie. Let us not fool ourselves. Islam is not a religion of peace, of tolerance, of equality or of unity of humankind. Let us read the Qur'an. Let us face the truth even if it is painful. As long as we keep this lie alive, as long as we hide our head in the sands of Arabia we are feeding terrorism. As long as you and I keep calling Qur'an the unchangeable book of God, we cannot blame those who follow the teachings therein. As long as we pay our Khums and Zakat our money goes to promote Islamic expansionism and that means terrorism, Jihad and war. Islam divides the world in two. Darul Harb (land of war) and Darul Islam (land of Islam). Darul Harb is the land of the infidels, Muslims are required to infiltrate those lands, proselytise and procreate until their numbers increase and then start the war and fight and kill the people and impose the religion of Islam on them and convert that land into Darul Islam. In all fairness we denounce this betrayal. This is abuse of the trust. How can we make war in the countries that have sheltered us? How can we kill those who have befriended us? Yet willingly or unwillingly we have become pawns in this Islamic Imperialism. Let us see what great Islamic scholars have had to say in this respect.Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Qur'an into English wrote: Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon the fighting against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the ability to fight against them. So at first the fighting was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory [Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.] Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary Islamic academician quoted Imam Suyuti the author of Itqan Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an who wrote: The command to fight the infidels was delayed until the Muslims become strong, but when they were weak they were commanded to endure and be patient. [ Sobhy as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an, Dar al-'Ilm Lel-Malayeen, Beirut, 1983, p. 269.]Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of a scholar named Zarkashi who said: Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims. [ibid p. 270]Other Islamic scholars (Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, Ga'far ar-Razi, Rabi' Ibn 'Ons, 'Abil-'Aliyah, Abd ar-Rahman Ibn Zayd Ibn 'Aslam, etc.) agree that the verse Slay the idolaters wherever you find them (9:5) cancelled those few earlier verses that called for tolerance in the Qur'an and were revealed when Islam was weak. Can you still say that Islam is the religion of peace? We propose a solution.

We know too well that it is not easy to denounce our faith because it means denouncing a part of ourselves. We are a group of freethinkers and humanists with Islamic roots. Discovering the truth and leaving the religion of our fathers and forefathers was a painful experience. But after learning what Islam stands for we had no choice but to leave it. After becoming familiar with the Qur'an the choice became clear: It is either Islam or humanity. If Islam thrives, then humanity will die. We decided to side with humanity. Culturally we are still Muslims but we no longer believe in Islam as the true religion of God. We are humanists. We love humanity. We work for the unity of humankind. We work for equality between men and women. We strive for the secularisation of Islamic countries, for democracy and freedom of thought, belief and expression. We decided to live no longer in self-deception but to embrace humanity, and to enter into the new millennium hand in hand with people of other cultures and beliefs in amity and in peace.We denounce the violence that is eulogized in the Qur'an as holy war (Jihad). We condemn killing in the name of God. We believe in the sanctity of human life, not in the inviolability of beliefs and religions. We invite you to join us and the rest of humanity and become part of the family of humankind - in love, camaraderie and peace.

Arabic translation الترجمة العربية

See http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis and http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ for more.

Please copy this article, and distribute it as widely as possible, both online and physically. The future of humanity depends on it.

« First        Comments 707 - 746 of 2,852       Last »     Search these comments

707   Strategist   2017 May 9, 7:18pm  

rando says

And the Saudis and Qataris get their military protection from their deal with our leaders to price oil in dollars and invest their revenue in US Treasuries.

In other words, we are subsidizing the fucking Royalty so they may live in their palaces, while their slaves feed them grapes.

708   Strategist   2017 May 9, 7:23pm  

curious2 says

The irony is, if we had the oil and they had the guns, they'd simply take the oil and enslave as many of us as they wanted

Trust me on this......I don't make a very good slave. But i would make a good master for a few dozen beautiful Arab women.

709   Patrick   2017 May 23, 10:18am  

I suppose it is time to bump this again.

Should have done it for the last thousand murders by Muslims, but then it would be at the top of the home page every day.

This guy does a pretty good job of documenting the daily murders committed by Muslims explicitly in the name of Islam:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

710   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 May 23, 10:32am  

It's time to demolish the homes where terrorists lived in.

There has to be consequences for failing to report. Like San Ber, the relatives couldn't have not known, as the two had bomb materials and weaponry all over the place and other relatives lived there.

Also, the police need to monitor property transfers and bank accounts of all relatives to prevent terror reward money from the Middle East.

711   curious2   2017 May 26, 12:26pm  

't was the week before Bombadan, and all through Islam:

In Iraq, a suicide bombing killed more than 50 people.

In the UK, a suicide bombing at a concert in Manchester killed more than 20 people.

In the Philippines, an Islamic rampage killed more than 20 people, took more than 100 Christian hostages, and drove thousands of people from their homes.

In Pakistan, Asia Bibi remained on death row for blasphemy, where the late Governor Salman Taseer is still dead. Millions continued to endure the daily oppression of an Islamic "republic" where more than 80% of the population demand Sharia.

In Indonesia, former Governor Ahok remains in prison for blasphemy, mainly because he was a Christian. He has been replaced by a new Muslim governor, as per Islam.

And much, much more! You can read further in the Global Terrorism Database, until it gets censored.

712   curious2   2017 Jun 17, 7:37pm  

anonymous says

Using Islam as the basis of the state is an innovation of the modern era.

That seems contrary to the actual history going back to Mohamed. In fact, the same article says:

"Muslims will be quick to point out that Islam is a complete way of life, and hence the religion cannot be separated from electoral politics or affairs in governing the state... It is undeniable that the Prophet of Islam and his Companions were involved in politics, but this was to resolve many issues of tribal dynamics where power and influence were involved. They never engaged in politics of contestation to amass power or influence."

The charlatan Mohamed and his followers used force to make everyone submit. Islam is a word that means literally submission. Of course they didn't engage in political contests, there wasn't a democracy. They forced submission.

"History shows this was the Prophet's consistent approach to politics. He was always occupied with ensuring that Islam provided the ethics upon which all facets of life are anchored, including politics.
***
Very few Islamic states, perhaps none, can be counted as models of success in the world today."

That illustrates one of the obvious problems with Islam itself. Trying to run the complete system of Islam in the modern world is like trying to drive an ox cart down an airport runway. It doesn't make sense, and it risks disaster.

713   Strategist   2017 Jun 22, 10:09am  

anonymous says

Liberal mosque in Berlin draws criticism. Men and women pray side-by-side, and there's a female imam who doesn't even wear a headscarf. For many in the Islamic world, these things are inconceivable.

Sunnis, Shiites, Alevis, members of the LGTBQ community - all are welcome at the Friday prayer service at the Ibn Rushd-Goethe Mosque in Berlin. The organization, which holds its services inside the St. Johannis Church in the area of Moabit, has sparked criticism since a DW report on its founder, women's rights activist Seyran Ates, who established the institution despite fierce resistance.

Love it. It's the only mosque that should not be shut down.

anonymous says

Reports about the liberal mosque found their way into several newspapers in the Muslim world. The pro-government Turkish newspaper Sabah called it "absurd" that services took place inside a church. Another newspaper, Yeniakit, labeled Ates a Kurdish supporter of the controversial cleric Fethullah Gulen. And Daily Pakistan criticized the fact that women took part in prayer services unveiled.

Men and uncovered women praying together, and presided over by a female imam on top of it? For some in the Muslim world, that's simply going too far. "They're creating a new religion, that's not Islamic," commented one DW user. "These people are not following the religion of our prophet. They have no conception of the religion. What idiocy," commented another.

I see a fatwa coming.

714   Patrick   2017 Jun 22, 10:42am  

I admire their courage, since they know how Muslims usually are.

717   Strategist   2017 Jun 23, 12:01pm  

zzyzzx says

ha ha ha
This ought to kill a lot of religious Muslims.

718   curious2   2017 Jun 23, 12:05pm  

rando says

I admire their courage, since they know how Muslims usually are.

It looks like a lose-lose situation to me. Either they get killed as apostates and blasphemers, or they survive and promote Islam.

The Koran is the most widely read book in the Islamic world; people memorize and recite it, so even the illiterate hear it over and over again. 'Feminist' Islam has zero chance of persuading people who know the Koran that it doesn't say what it says.

OTOH, 'Feminist' Islam has a non-zero chance of persuading European non-Muslims to celebrate and welcome taqiyyeh, thus facilitating hijrah.

Lose, lose.

719   PeopleUnited   2017 Jun 23, 1:40pm  

I imagine after evening prayers all the Islamo-feminists sit down with their Imam for Halal Bacon Burgers and and a Brewski to talk about hot chicks and the evils of Western culture.

720   Patrick   2017 Jun 23, 3:17pm  

curious2 says

The Koran is the most widely read book in the Islamic world; people memorize and recite it, so even the illiterate hear it over and over again. 'Feminist' Islam has zero chance of persuading people who know the Koran that it doesn't say what it says.

I don't know about zero chance. People will believe black is white and up is down if they really want to believe it. That's what religion is all about.

But I agree that the main Koranic message of resentment and contempt for all non-Muslims will be hard for "feminist" Islam to overcome. The Koran just repeats over and over ad nauseam how shitty non-Muslims are.

721   PeopleUnited   2017 Jun 23, 3:34pm  

rando says

curious2 says

The Koran is the most widely read book in the Islamic world; people memorize and recite it, so even the illiterate hear it over and over again. 'Feminist' Islam has zero chance of persuading people who know the Koran that it doesn't say what it says.

I don't know about zero chance. People will believe black is white and up is down if they really want to believe it. That's what religion is all about.

But I agree that the main Koranic message of resentment and contempt for all non-Muslims will be hard for "feminist" Islam to overcome. The Koran just repeats over and over ad nauseam how shitty non-Muslims are.

Not just religion Patrick, there are plenty of lies in this world that have nothing to do with religion. And people believe them. For example there are people who believe that just because you have testicles or white skin, you are guilty of social injustice.

On the Koran, yes, I agree. The main message of Koran is if you are not one of us, you are a target for enslavement and destruction.

722   Strategist   2017 Jun 24, 4:58pm  

anonymous says

When some young protesters tried to drag him off, Pandith fired from his service revolver, leaving three injured. The mob then stripped and stoned him to death.

The incident sparked nationwide outrage on Friday. Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Mehbooba condemned the killing but was careful not to mention Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the separatist leader who was holding a sermon inside the mosque.

Muslims everywhere are the same.
Violent
Barbaric
Immoral
Cruel
These rioters should be shot. The moment you do that the fucking Islam apologists are on your ass blaming you for everything.

723   Strategist   2017 Jun 24, 5:18pm  

anonymous says

The situation in the Southern Half of the Philippines seems to be slowly going to hell in a hand basket and starting to see more pronounced problems now in Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia (nothing new there) but now Singapore being named as a target as well.

Singapore is a wonderful City State. Progressive, affluent, hard working, and treats everyone as equals. So far they have had no political, racial, or religious problems. The fucking Muslims would like to change that. I would hope the government of Singapore sees this coming and "nips it in the bud"

724   Patrick   2017 Jun 25, 5:57am  

Interesting, this site is blocked in Dublin airport on their Wifi:

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/12/28/how-singapore-culls-its-muslim-population/

You just get "This page is not available. To visit Google.com click here"

But otherwise the internet is working fine, and the site is visible right now on my phone via cellular data, just not via their wifi. So it's clearly just being censored in the airport.

Freedom of speech about Islam not allowed in Dublin airport.

725   Strategist   2017 Jun 25, 8:19am  

rando says

Interesting, this site is blocked in Dublin airport on their Wifi:

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/12/28/how-singapore-culls-its-muslim-population/

Very interesting article. I recommend everyone read it.

729   curious2   2017 Jul 13, 6:13pm  

It was a day like most other days. Buddhists chanted, Hindus counted the many arms of Vishnu, atheists read Dawkins, and yet more Muslims strapped on suicide bombs and killed themselves in order to kill and wound random civilians who had never done them any harm.

"Two women detonated explosives at a busy market in northern Cameroon late Wednesday, killing at least 12 people and wounding many more, according to government officials.
***
No organization has immediately claimed responsibility for the bombings — though NPR's Ofeibea Quist-Arcton notes it bears the hallmarks of Boko Haram, an Islamist militant group born in Nigeria.
***
As NPR's Merrit Kennedy reported earlier this year, UNICEF believes Boko Haram has used at least 117 children in suicide attacks, 80 percent of whom were girls.
"

Meanwhile, in the west, some people looked at that and said, "We need to bring more of that here! Not the Buddhists and Hindus, they're too boring: bring us only the explosive Muslims! We'll pay any price!"

730   Patrick   2017 Jul 13, 6:59pm  

But Islam is exciting and exotic, the ultimate in Diversityâ„¢

731   Strategist   2017 Jul 13, 8:05pm  

rando says

But Islam is exciting and exotic

It sure is. Going back to the 7th century to experience how barbarians lived at that time can only be exciting and exotic.

732   curious2   2017 Jul 14, 6:59am  

anonymous says

In less than an hour, the post attracted more than 1,200 comments, and if Facebook does not take it down there’s no doubt this number will increase, a symbol of the way social media celebrate ruthless hatred and bloodshed.

If Facebook does not take it down, more people might see the nature of Islam, and that it isn't only a few "radicals" but rather huge numbers of Muslims ready to engage in lethal violence over cartoons. More than 80% of Pakistani Muslims demand Sharia in Pakistan, where Asia Bibi and a FB user remain on death row for blasphemy. When you're talking about more than 80% of the population, more than 80 million people, it's delusional to dismiss them as a few isolated "radicals".

733   Patrick   2017 Jul 14, 7:56am  

To be fair, I would not call an attack on armed border police terrorism. Terrorism is the deliberate murder of random unarmed civilians.

Not that I approve, but if we start calling everything terrorism, then you can label disbelief in Islam as terrorism too, like the Saudis do.

734   zzyzzx   2017 Jul 14, 8:09am  

http://archive.is/xUQas

UN Plan to replace westerners with Muslims.

735   socal2   2017 Jul 14, 8:19am  

rando says

To be fair, I would not call an attack on armed border police terrorism. Terrorism is the deliberate murder of random unarmed civilians.

Not that I approve, but if we start calling everything terrorism, then you can label disbelief in Islam as terrorism too, like the Saudis do.

Wasn't this a deliberate and premeditated murder for political/religious reasons? Doesn't matter if its cops or not - IMO. I think this would qualify as terrorism.

736   Patrick   2017 Jul 14, 8:25am  

Murdering armed representatives of a government seems different to me than murdering unarmed civilians.

737   socal2   2017 Jul 14, 8:36am  

rando says

Murdering armed representatives of a government seems different to me than murdering unarmed civilians.

Does that mean all the cops and firefighters killed on 9/11 weren't victims of terrorism? How about all the troops killed at Fort Hood? They were all killed for ideological/political reasons.

I get it if we are talking about cops getting killed by trying manage a riot or if the cops are the aggressor in trying to arrest someone and that person fights back.

But I believe in this case, these cops were just guarding a religious site and some crazy Muslims walked up to them and tried to kill them.

738   Patrick   2017 Jul 14, 9:14am  

I'm not saying it wasn't evil. I was just defining "terrorism" as the deliberate murder of unarmed civilians for political reasons. Killing armed representatives of a country is something else, maybe guerrilla warfare.

The 9/11 firefighters were unarmed, so that's terrorism. The 9/11 cops were killed essentially accidentally by a deliberate terrorist attack, which is an attack on civilians. Anyway, cops are not exactly representatives of a country.

Troops attacking troops is warfare, not terrorism, right? So are border guards troops? Not quite sure.

740   CBOEtrader   2017 Jul 14, 7:42pm  

Dan8267 says

There was a time when the Islamic world was more advanced than the Europe and embraced mathematics. It took a turn for the worse when the "Islamic right" took over and decided that religious teachings were more important than science, art, and mathematics. Thankfully, that could never happen in America.

You are a genuine retard

741   Strategist   2017 Jul 14, 8:15pm  

CBOEtrader says

Dan8267 says

There was a time when the Islamic world was more advanced than the Europe and embraced mathematics. It took a turn for the worse when the "Islamic right" took over and decided that religious teachings were more important than science, art, and mathematics. Thankfully, that could never happen in America.

Dan, please do us a favor and become a Muslim.

742   curious2   2017 Jul 15, 1:07am  

rando says

I was just defining....

IDK why people insist on trying to re-define words that have definitions already.

Terrorism is illegal threats or force intended to coerce or intimidate governments or societies. It resembles hate crimes, where the intent is typically to coerce or intimidate a group of people, e.g. KKK lynching individual black people as warning to the others.

rando says

Murdering armed representatives of a government seems different to me than murdering unarmed civilians.

Yes, and I'm glad your politics have evolved. The same phyiscal action can have different consequences depending on context.

743   curious2   2017 Aug 3, 7:03am  

In case anyone didn't notice (while MSM continued to obsess over Russia), Islam continued to do what Islam does. In Afghanistan, two more suicide attacks:

"At least 37 people died and more than 60 were injured [when an Islamic State] gunman killed the guards at a Shia mosque in Herat before entering inside and detonating a suicide vest in the midst of hundreds of worshippers.

The attack was claimed the next day by the Sunni militant group - which had recently threatened an increase in attacks on Shia Muslims." The dead included the father of the Afghan girl robotics team captain.

"The U.S. military in Afghanistan says that four American troops were wounded in the same suicide bombing near the city of Kandahar the previous day that killed two U.S. service members."

Like most countries that have allowed themselves to become more than 20% Muslim, Afghanistan is more than 90% Muslim and lacks the freedom that most westerners take for granted. I can certainly understand that many (perhaps most) of the population want to emigrate, but by bringing Islam with them, they enlarge the problem reather than solving it. In a recent case, a well meaning Marin County family adopted an Afghan "refugee," who went on to kill an American, claiming PTSD. A San Francisco jury acquitted the Afghan of murder, due to the PTSD. Spreading Islam makes Afghanistan's problems our problems, and some people have become so deranged (by TDS or 'white guilt' or whatever) that they don't care how man Americans get killed that way.

Whatever anyone says about President Trump, he deserves credit for speaking candidly about Islam, opposing hijrah, and ending the CIA "Hillary's War" jihadi program in Syria.

745   curious2   2017 Aug 17, 1:05pm  

"At Least 13 Dead, 100 Injured After Van Strikes Crowd In Barcelona
***
The driver of the vehicle fled the scene.
***
The Islamic State has claimed responsibility for the attack, the SITE Intelligence Group reports.
"

Islam commands believers to "strike terror into" the enemies of Allah and "kill the disbelievers wherever you find them." Islam is a word that means "submission," and it is a totalitarian doctrine of violent conquest. The charlatan Mohamed and his followers designed, fabricated, and optimized Islam for the express purpose of conquering as many people and territories as possible, and enforcing submission. Usually, countries have borders to guard against conquest. You can try to blame individual Muslims for doing what Islam commands them to do, but you should also blame the politicians who choose deliberately to spread Islam.

746   Dan8267   2017 Aug 17, 2:27pm  

socal2 says

Does that mean all the cops and firefighters killed on 9/11 weren't victims of terrorism?

No. 9/11 targeted noncombatants. Any bystander caught up in a terrorist attack is a victim of that terrorist act. The act itself is terrorism because it targets noncombatants.

socal2 says

How about all the troops killed at Fort Hood?

They are combatants. As such they are casualties of war. Attacking the military of a country is warfare, not terrorism. Attacking the civilians of a country is terrorism, not warfare. This is true whether the attackers are from the U.S. or the Middle East. This is true whether the attackers are acting on the behalf of a government or not.

Cops can be either combatants or non-combatants depending on how they are used. A police force acting like an invading army are combatants. Killing them is insurrection and resistance, not terrorism. Community police are non-combatants. Killing them is terrorism.

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