patrick.net

It's certainly a much better response than baseball bats, which simply inflames tensions.

But wouldn't it be even better for each side to try to really understand the other side, and what exactly is driving them? Is that possible?

A civilized demonstration is an ineffective demonstration!

rando says

try to really understand the other side

No. A bunch of people travelling to other states to march around with tiki torches shouting 'Jews will not replace us' and 'blood and soil' should only be understood through the lens of a psychologist. This would be true even if they just want to quietly march with Nazi flags.

If they come into town with riot gear, they should also be dispersed.

There are some good people with racist views, and it's fine to talk with them and understand their motives. Many of those people post here on your web site. But some people are pretty far gone, and their views simply have no intellectual merit. Not everybody's grievances are of equal merit.

One of the points in the article I posted is that opposition demonstrations that are fun and positive attract more people than opposition movements that are violent and angry. The vast majority of people opposes the views of Nazis these days, even if 20% of the country is sympathetic to some of the white supremacist views. But the vast majority doesn't want to express anger and violence. A successful opposition will reflect the view/mood of the majority, IMO.

YesYNot says

One of the points in the article I posted is that opposition demonstrations that are fun and positive attract more people than opposition movements that are violent and angry. The vast majority of people opposes the views of Nazis these days, even if 20% of the country is sympathetic to some of the white supremacist views.

It's not even 20% that sympathize with Nazis, far less. That's exactly the point against this hysteria, the violence from those groups is greatly exaggerated and its hysteric coverage silences the real problems/dangers this country and others face. You just said it yourself. These tiny fringes have been marching forever but haven't been a threat to modern democracy, human rights or civil liberties since WW2 ended. Why the obsession?

mell says

It's not even 20% that sympathize with Nazis, far less. That's exactly the point against this hysteria...

YesYNot says

even if 20% of the country is sympathetic to some of the white supremacist views.

Notice the difference between what I said and how you paraphrased it. White supremacists are not necessarily Nazis, and people who are sympathetic to some views of a person are not necessarily sympathetic to those people as a whole. Lots of people on patrick.net use shitty statistics to support the idea that blacks are lazier, dumber, and more violent than whites. I don't really care if someone wants to research the topic, but when they are dishonest in their approach, I'd say that they were sympathetic to some of the ideas of white supremacists.

Somebody photoshopped that #AltLeft Antifa in there; they didn't exist until Trump.

Wait, wasn't there like the Battle of Seattle and these WTO and GATT and G-8 meetings these guys burned cars and throw molotovs at year ago?

"Winston, Battle for Seattle coming your way in the pneumatic tube. Please double plus ungood pictures of Antifa rioting there from the archives. Can't have the proles thinking Antifa and Violent AltLeft existed before Trumpstein! Trumpstein! Trumpstein! They wouldn't understand."

Nobody has argued that Antifa didn't exist before Trump. What the left has argued is that Trump will inflame racial tensions, and that Trump emboldens the Nazi/KKK wing. Antifa, being a reaction to that is going to get more popular as well. Charlottesville doesn't prove anything, but it fits with what the Left has been warning you about.
Antifa were obviously at the rally in Charlotte 5 years ago, but people didn't hear much of anything about them until Trump was elected. Have a look at the video here, and see the difference in how both sides behaved.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/white-supremacist-rally-clowns_n_2118890.html

YesYNot says

Nobody has argued that Antifa didn't exist before Trump. What the left has argued is that Trump will inflame racial tensions, and that Trump emboldens the Nazi/KKK wing. Antifa, being a reaction to that is going to get more popular as well. Charlottesville doesn't prove anything, but it fits with what the Left has been warning you about.

The Media is acting like NeoNazis are the only violent group we should be worried about, when we've seen bloody assaults, assassination attempts, and even murders by the Left over Trump and his Supporters. From Berkeley and San Diego and Connecticut, to the Congressional Ball Game, to the guy who was killed for joking about voting for Trump.

They literally mocked Trump over saying many sides are responsible for the violence in Charlottesville. At least two journalists were attacked by the Left, accused of being White supremacists.

The Legacy Media, because of one lone act by a Neo-Nazi at a protest over a Civil War Statue, is pushing that Neo-Nazis are on the rise because of Trump (they're not, going by a good proxy indicator like Stormfront new user registrations, but the exact opposite - collapsing) and ignoring the past year or so of Left Violence. Additionally, since we saw last year, taking seriously and promoting the idea that Trump Supporters are all Racists, White Supremacists, even NeoNazis. Imagine if Trump had called all Coastie Professionals Stalinists. The Media would not give it a moment's consideration (and that would be accurate and fair)

I won't even get into Islam, which the Legacy Oligarch Media is all like "#NotAllMuslims" and rushing to use FacebookFilters.

YesYNot says

Nobody has argued that Antifa didn't exist before Trump. What the left has argued is that Trump will inflame racial tensions, and that Trump emboldens the Nazi/KKK wing. Antifa, being a reaction to that is going to get more popular as well. Charlottesville doesn't prove anything, but it fits with what the Left has been warning you about.

Antifa were obviously at the rally in Charlotte 5 years ago, but people didn't hear much of anything about them until Trump was elected. Have a look at the video here, and see the difference in how both sides behaved.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/white-supremacist-rally-clowns_n_2118890.html

You are unbelievable. Please tell me what Trump has said to inflame racial tension.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

and even murders by the Left

You act like the media ignored events like Scalise being shot. In fact, it was all over all of the news including the networks that you like to hate on. Every reporting that I heard on that, which covered the news for days said that it was terrible. Nobody ignored it, covered it up, or made excuses for it. Nobody on the left suggested that Scalise was doing anything to provoke violence.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

They literally mocked Trump over saying many sides are responsible for the violence in Charlottesville.

As they should have. Trump never said what the 'many sides' were. It's just an attempt to spread blame around. He was later asked directly if he put the Nazis on the same moral plane as those who opposed them. He said that he was not putting anybody on a moral plane, and went to on to attack the behavior of Antifa (didn't use that name).
Trump lied about knowing who David Duke was during the campaign as an excuse for not condemning him. Then, when Duke and the next gen Nazis descended on Charlottesville, Trump drew moral equivalence and angrily attacked the other side. You don't seem to realize how bad this looks to the majority of Americans.

YesYNot says

TwoScoopsMcGee says

and even murders by the Left

You act like the media ignored events like Scalise being shot. In fact, it was all over all of the news including the networks that you like to hate on. Every reporting that I heard on that, which covered the news for days said that it was terrible. Nobody ignored it, covered it up, or made excuses for it. Nobody on the left suggested that Scalise was doing anything to provoke violence.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

They literally mocked Trump over saying many sides are responsible for the violence in Charlottesville.

As they should have. Trump never said what the 'many sides' were. It's just an attempt to spread blame around. He was later asked directly if he put the Nazis on the same moral plane as those who opposed them. He said t...

Media lick spittle.

Boy do I wish propaganda wasn't so effective.

WineHorror says

Boy do I wish propaganda wasn't so effective.

I thought you would be happy that Trump was elected.