patrick.net

BTW, if you are so sure about sea level rise maybe you can tell me how it is calculated. Actually, let me tell you, it is called the budgeting method. Basically they look at satellite images and estimate where all the known water is then estimate what it is doing. Observations proved no sea level rise and the precise method of using a satellite to lock onto a beacon on a buoy didn't get the desired results so those results are inconclusive and not used.

Malcolm says

DoofusRicky says

WookieMan says

Why is there another climate change thread?

Brother wookie just between you and I, I will secretly confess that this is not in all probable fact a climate change thread. It is a rather poorly constructed but still curious psychology experiment.

Ah yes, the insults start when someone is challenged. That is why I call it a religion. You are not the first to balk at a real debate on the issue.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/eYKggC5VOzA

Thx interesting debate there.

FNWGMOBDVZXDNW says

This is pretty funny. The premise here is that if (1) someone ignores the fact that you cannot resolve 5 inches in the picture and (2) ignores the fact that tides vary as pointed out already and (3) assume that a few point visual measurements are more accurate than the average of many measurements around the world over decades, then we can prove that climate change is a fraud.
Who is following the evidence and who is following blinded by cognitive bias again? Will this thread make it to 100 comments? Will Malcom claim at that point that nobody has answered his question? I'm titillated.

It is so easy to prove me wrong. It just takes real evidence. You stepped up and can't produce it.

I didn't say my pictures were proof of 0 sea level rise, I said they were evidence contradicting sea level rise. The whole premise of this is to allow anyone to provide me visual proof at any resolution that sea level has risen. No one has done so, yet they argue the point with me, in essence stepping up to a challenge to please show me where sea level has risen, with a visual.

I'm not disrespecting anyone's opinions, just show me the real proof.

WookieMan says

I don't get what we're arguing.

Still a lot of ignorance out there.

DoofusRicky says

Malcolm says

I didn't say my pictures were proof of 0 sea level rise, I said they were evidence contradicting sea level rise.

I stand corrected. They are proof of the absence of sea level rise exceeding the pixel size of your photograph which as far as I can determine is well over a foot.

Fortunately for the warmist community, that isn't what scientists have measured.

LOL, the diplomatic side of me was going to at least propose that we concede it is not more than a foot. Yes, my evidence is merely putting it out there that I am consistently not seeing noticeable sea level change over decades. But that's cool, I had a similar discussion with an old friend, he asserted 2 1/2 inches over 150 years. These pictures are just for a baseline, and I really am open to looking at pictures showing the opposite. Like I also said, I am compiling images wherever I can as to not just have a few data points.

Malcolm says

The whole premise of this is to allow anyone to provide me visual proof at any resolution that sea level has risen.

For example the "marégraphe" in Marseilles, is a tide gauge that kept records of sea level since 1883. It has a sophisticated mechanism to integrate the levels.
http://www.sonel.org/spip.php?page=maregraphe&idStation=1802 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00190-014-0728-6
You still won't see 20 cm difference on a picture.

Well, I'll start caring about sea level rise when you can.

Malcolm says

Well, I'll start caring about sea level rise when you can.

Sure, and in the meantime, put your money where your mouth is and go buy a nice oceanfront property in Miami, since you are so sure it won't be affected.
I hear they sell at a discount.

WookieMan says

I don't get what we're arguing.

You giving 15% of your paycheck to Al Gore.

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

WookieMan says

I don't get what we're arguing.

You giving 15% of your paycheck to Al Gore.

I don't follow. What 15% of my paycheck?

I don't care if the scientist are wrong or right. I live by the fact we're all going 6 feet under anyway. Enjoy life. Don't change your oil and dump it on the front lawn. Don't start a tire fire. Be energy efficient if it works for you. Those types of things.

A speeding rock can hit our planet and there's nothing we can do about it. We'd all be dead tomorrow. A super volcano. Whatever. If climate change is real, there's nothing we can do about it anyway. Grab a drink or joint and have fun... but don't be a dead beat.

WookieMan says

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

WookieMan says

I don't get what we're arguing.

You giving 15% of your paycheck to Al Gore.

I don't follow. What 15% of my paycheck?

Because Al needs the money.

Global warming hoax was sales bullshit to sell more solar panels and electric vehicles. Coincidence that billionaire democrats are selling those!!!

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

WookieMan says

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

WookieMan says

I don't get what we're arguing.

You giving 15% of your paycheck to Al Gore.

I don't follow. What 15% of my paycheck?

Because Al needs the money.

Al is a fat fuck. Ignore him. If he cared about the environment he'd stop eating 3 burgers a day which in effect eliminates his neck. You can't take a no-necker seriously, you know that, right?

Does anyone know if the Russian troll farms are getting involved with this topic now ?

Fossil fuels are more important to certain Russian oligarchs than even the Koch brothers.

Fascinating thread. I guess I'm possibly an idiot for deferring to the experts when they tell me the earth is not nearly flat, or that sea level has gone up by however much it has. No offense, but it takes someone very disrespectful of academia and scholarship in general, not to mention critical thinking as thing that exists, to think that sea level changes (something so incredibly easy to verity) have not been verified in thousands of places, six ways from Sunday.

Maybe it's comedy ? Showing photos to show sea level hasn't gone up 5 inches, when tide is something like 24 inches. Wtf ?

anon_08dee says

Does anyone know if the Russian troll farms are getting involved with this topic now ?

Always have been. Their main effort was in peddling "fracking is baaaaad", "pipelines are daaaangerous", "tar sands development is hooorrrible" kind of shit. Because grows of US domestic oil and gas production and subsequent lowering of prices and push into the markets they deem theirs is threatening one of the two legs the fucking "Energy Superpower" stands on.

WookieMan says

Fascinating thread. I guess I'm possibly an idiot for deferring to the experts when they tell me the earth is not nearly flat

You're not an idiot.
anon_08dee says

or that sea level has gone up by however much it has

It has. But it is not covering Manhattan.

Maybe you have been duped by the alarmists?

anon_08dee says

Maybe it's comedy

Maybe.
Some alarmists are religious in their zeal.

Onvacation says

WookieMan says

Fascinating thread. I guess I'm possibly an idiot for deferring to the experts when they tell me the earth is not nearly flat

You're not an idiot.

Not my quote, but thanks for the kind words.

What the Libbies should collect from your paycheck in order to save us from climate swings
WookieMan says

Why is there another climate change thread? These should be banned. If the science is right all of us die and so do our kids. If it's wrong, we all die at some point anyway. I don't get what we're arguing

BlueSardine says

What the Libbies should collect from your paycheck in order to save us from climate swings

Libbies & Repubs are getting our money one way or another. Fight the good fight I suppose. I just don't know why we go back and forth here with sometimes 2 or 3 of these threads a week on patnet knowing that NO ONE here is going to change their position.

First world countries are naturally going towards cleaner energy from my perspective. I think or would hope everyone here agrees that's a good thing. Deniers included. So on a per capita basis we're likely reducing emissions, this is good.

On the other hand the believers think there's something that can be done about it. There's no magic bullet to have a net decrease in pollution/emissions/CO2. While our per capita pollution has decreased, we've just added more people to the world that keep the overall levels the same or increasing. Besides population control or outright banning of a polluting activities and massively lowering the quality of life, I've yet to hear to logical solution to all this.

Do I want my kids to live on a polluted, disgusting earth, no. Do I want them to be forced to live a certain way by our government to try and reverse something that is very likely not reversible, no. This is all I'm getting at. Enjoy life. You've only got one and arguing about something where there is literally never going to be a winner is kind of a fools errand.

I rest my case on these climate change threads. Have fun with the back and forth though I suppose. Both sides aren't changing the path that we're on.

The Greenhouse Effect (GE) is established science, the 1st law of thermodynamics (1LT) is established science. Global warming (GW) follows directly from GE and 1LT.

People who argue against GW are arguing against basic physics. They are ignorants, and a large fraction of them are ideologically driven ignorants. There is no other way to say it.

https://patrick.net/post/1313015/2018-01-10-co2-greenhouse-effect-in-details

Science is not truth. Science is the process by which we attempt to find truth.

Anyone who thinks any science is “settled” clearly has no clue about what science even is!

Does anyone know if the Russian troll farms are getting involved with this topic now ?

Fossil fuels are more important to certain Russian oligarchs than even the Koch brothers.

Fascinating thread. I guess I'm possibly an idiot for deferring to the experts when they tell me the earth is not nearly flat, or that sea level has gone up by however much it has. No offense, but it takes someone very disrespectful of academia and scholarship in general, not to mention critical thinking as thing that exists, to think that sea level changes (something so incredibly easy to verity) have not been verified in thousands of places, six ways from Sunday.

Maybe it's comedy ? Showing photos to show sea level hasn't gone up 5 inches, when tide is something like 24 inches. Wtf ?

anon_08dee says

Does anyone know if the Russian troll farms are getting involved with this topic now ?

If they are, it's not from Russia itself. I have banned the whole country by IP address ranges. Not because of political posts, just because of relentless spam.

Quigley says

Anyone who thinks any science is “settled” clearly has no clue about what science even is!

Its hard to imagine that anyone will argue against the most basic and fundamental physical laws, but apparently some will.

anon_08dee says

Fascinating thread. I guess I'm possibly an idiot for deferring to the experts when they tell me the earth is not nearly flat, or that sea level has gone up by however much it has. No offense, but it takes someone very disrespectful of academia and scholarship in general, not to mention critical thinking as thing that exists, to think that sea level changes (something so incredibly easy to verity) have not been verified in thousands of places, six ways from Sunday.

Maybe it's comedy ? Showing photos to show sea level hasn't gone up 5 inches, when tide is something like 24 inches. Wtf ?

If it is a comedy, it is a tragical farce. Not accounting for time variation of local sea levels due to tidal conditions is a glaring mistake. But that is not going to stop the ideologically-driven and scientifically ignorant. And by the way, the high-waterline does not establish what percentage of the time the water is at what level, nor is it accurate enough to establish anything significant from these far-away photos.

But: back to basics: Greenhouse effect and the laws of thermodynamics imply global warming. End of story.

What better than an unmeasurable and unsee-able metric lost in the normal tidal variations to prove Global Warming.

Ceffer says

What better than un unmeasurable and unsee-able metric lost in the normal tidal variations to prove Global Warming.

(sarc) What better than than a highly inaccurate methodology to "prove" that sea levels did not rise?

Greenhouse effect and the laws of thermodynamics imply global warming. End of story.

justme says

The Greenhouse Effect (GE) is established science

Is the relationship between co2 and heat linear? If not linear what is the relationship?
Just because a possible effect is recognized does not mean the science is settled.

justme says

People who argue against GW are arguing against basic physics. They are ignorants, and a large fraction of them are ideologically driven ignorants. There is no other way to say it.

Said like a true believer. Is there anything that will change your belief? If the temperature continues to decline will you revisit your ideology or just continue to make excuses?

justme says

Greenhouse effect and the laws of thermodynamics imply global warming. End of story.

Imply? So it might be something else?

Onvacation says

Imply? So it might be something else?

NO, it might not be "something else". In mathematical logic, A implies B, written A ==> B, means that B must always be true if A is true. I'm writing in the mathematical sense, not in some colloquial/rhetorical sense.

justme says

Its hard to imagine that anyone will argue against the most basic and fundamental physical laws, but apparently some will.

Want to name one of these? Or give me an example? Just one. Perhaps you’ll choose “gravity.” That would be fun to refute!

Malcolm says

Here is a 130 year span showing no rise at La Jolla Cove.

Any Idiot can look at the original Nautical maps showing Fort Jefferson, it has the same footprint in the surrounding Atlantic as it did 125 years ago.
One side of the Fort was built right at the water edge. The other side has about 100ft of beach landing for docking boats for supplies. Looks exactly unchanged.

Climate Change is all about Academic and Political promises made to each other. They had a fucking deal we were supposed to go along with it. Al Gore was already shopping for a new summer island.

justme says

laws of thermodynamics imply global warming

Is this one of those science laws you hold forth as being truth? Which law exactly helps us determine that runaway global warming is happening? Zeroth law? 1st law? I’m assuming you’d like to skip over that inconvenient 2nd law which states:
“In a natural thermodynamic process, the sum of the entropies of the interacting thermodynamic systems increases. Equivalently, perpetual motion machines of the second kind (machines that spontaneously convert thermal energy into mechanical work) are impossible.”
Entropy always increasing means heat is always lost from the system, which is tragic for folks who are trying to believe that it’s not going anywhere due to carbon dioxide.

Still waiting on that pristine and shining scientific law that equates with absolute truth!

Quigley says

Entropy always increasing means heat is always lost from the system

Entropy increasing means that exergy decreases, but not enthalpy. Heat loss is a function of enthalpy. Your statement isn't correct.

FNWGMOBDVZXDNW says

Entropy increasing means that exergy decreases, but not enthalpy

Enthalpy MUST decrease, else the constant input of energy from the sun would raise it to an unsustainable degree fairly quickly. As it increases, it must also decrease. Trees are good at this, absorbing energy from the solar radiation and using it to make plant matter. So are the zooplankton in the oceans. But the largest energy loss each day is through infrared radiation to outer space. In any sustained system that has energy input, enthalpy must decrease or the system will become unsustainable.

Onvacation says

If the temperature continues to decline will you revisit your ideology or just continue to make excuses?

If the temperature continues to increase will stop denying it increases?