patrick.net

FPBT says

So now we are for socialism?

Nope just down to show the liberals just how feebly feckless their nonsense is.

Conservatives have been itching for fucking years upon years to censor and silence the Liberal Filth in Hollywood and the Internet and bring down the Pedophile cartel.

Liberals are Pedophiles that's why they censored Infowars and Alex Jones, they have so much to hide and fear.

Once again, people confusing "freedom of speech" for "obligation of others to publish."

All that aside, I'd like to focus the discussion on the topic at hand- Alex Fucking Jones. The man is consistently objectively wrong but never corrects, retracts, or apologizes. His content isn't filtered; every out-there brain fart is treated with the same gravitas as canonical facts like the freezing and boiling point of water at a given pressure, a hallmark of crackpot thinking. There are no lines between fact, speculation, propaganda, and disinformation. Alex plies the psychological quirks and deficiencies of those he follows, acting like his is privileged information and he is struggling against a powerful conspiracy against the world.

At some point, sane and rational people turn their back on this type of person, and the type of people who follow him. That's where I'm at with AJ.

The major platforms who pushed him out their doors, my only question is, WHY did it take you so long?

Automan Empire says

His content isn't filtered; every out-there brain fart is treated with the same gravitas as canonical facts

If hes a clown, why censor him?

AJ's content is besides the point. Political censorship is never a sign of a healthy society. Historically this leads oppression and even ethnic cleansing.

The time to say no is now. If you cant, please take a look in the mirror and remember this day. At some point you will regret supporting the Nazis

CBOEtrader says

At some point you will regret supporting the Nazis

As all statist eventually do, if they're lucky to survive.

CBOEtrader says

At some point you will regret supporting the Nazis

They all hung for following orders. I never thought that was fair, but now I get it.
They were all Liberal National Socialists by choice

Aphroman says

Why should a private company be compelled by The State to provide platform for distasteful nonsense that harms their business?

What would you call it if Shell, Exxon, and BP all decided at 3AM on a Sunday night to set the price of a gallon of gas at $4?

It's actually worse, because there is no specific reason given, and the problematic entries cited is content that has been up for years.

Multiple Tech Firms within 12 hours reviewed years old content at the same time? Unlikely.

Collusion? Very likely.

Free Speech is also more than the #1A, it's also a societal value, and society should pressure companies to adhere to standards.

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

It's actually worse, because there is no specific reason given, and the problematic entries cited is content that has been up for years.

The reason is simple: this is anti-US propaganda.

A nation exists only because of its inner tribalism, and tribalism relies on narratives, that have to be maintained.

In a world where much of what is happening is happening so far away from people, it's extremely naive to think that simply giving freedom of expression to everyone will result in anything good.

A country cannot survive if there are dozens, or even hundreds, of media outlets, with large followings, actively undermining its unity, its values, and its institutions.

Would you let the soviet union run anti-US propaganda inside the US? Nazi Germany? How would we fight them if this was the case?
In the case of Jones, this is obviously not an not external polity, but it undermines the nation all the same.

I would define decadence as a people becoming incapable to recognize and/or react to truths and facts.

We should all object to the NYT hiring leftist extremists relaying a biased vision of the world.

But people like Jones make it a point to lie and bring people in cult-like beliefs that turn them against national institutions.
All for personal gain.

He is not a James Damore: speaking truth to power. He is the exact opposite.

Heraclitusstudent says

it undermines the nation all the same.

Alex Jones undermines fundamental COGNITION.

Right now I'm not buying the argument that "censoring" Alex Jones harms rational individual or societal interests.

Heraclitusstudent says

A country cannot survive if there are dozens, or even hundreds, of media outlets, with large followings, actively undermining its unity, its values, and its institutions.

Uh, that's how it was before Network TV in the 1950s, and the consolidation of news and radio.

Even small cities had 2-3 newspapers with virulently differing opinions.

The Walter Kronkite to CNN era was the exception, not the norm. Economy of Scale and Consolidation combined the printers and radios and networks, and now the internet is decentralizing the Press again (not for the first time).

Heraclitusstudent says

The reason is simple: this is anti-US propaganda.

Google, the owner of Youtube, is helping China create a Censored Search Engine. Facebook and Twitter work with anti-American Radical Groups, sponsored by Soros and NGOs with foreign financing, to help them develop Algos to determine what is acceptable or not. Should we ban that?

Heraclitusstudent says

In a world where much of what is happening is happening so far away from people, it's extremely naive to think that simply giving freedom of expression to everyone will result in anything good.

That's a cornerstone of (classic) Liberal thought going back to Locke. At the time, things like Religious Tolerance or Free Speech was considered Maximum Whiggery even by most Whigs.

Heraclitusstudent says

Would you let the soviet union run anti-US propaganda inside the US? Nazi Germany? How would we fight them if this was the case?

How about BBC and Guardian pro-EU propaganda? WSJ, CNN pro-NAFTA/MFN for China Propaganda?

You're not really arguing to eliminate the Freedom of Speech and the Press, right?

Those are hardcore American Values. Freedom of the Press is NOT limited to multinational, multibillion dollar Corporations.

Man, I hope my sarcasm meter is merely broken, and you're making a funny.

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

That's a cornerstone of (classic) Liberal thought going back to Locke. At the time, things like Religious Tolerance or Free Speech was considered Maximum Whiggery even by most Whigs.

It is obvious that there should be a debate of ideas including about what the truth is, and how the nation should be led. This is not the case here. Jones is deliberately lying, and lying about things that undermine institutions.

Locke was not living in a world where a troll farm in Russia could influence what millions of Americans saw as news.

If you want to refer the past: what would McCarthy think about it?

An no sorry, the BBC may be defending the EU, but it is not undermining this nation.

Heraclitusstudent says

He is not a James Damore: speaking truth to power. He is the exact opposite.

Does that really matter?

Fundamentally if you really believe in free speech and the 1st amendment, does your statement change anything?

Time to ban CNN?

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

Love seeing Liberals who are like "Always let dissident voices be heard"

I'm not sure whether having a guy promote stories about pedophile democrat rings or that mass shootings of children didn't really happen, but are plots to take our guns away, qualifies as, "dissident voices."

YOu know there are a lot of dishonest morons out there that are happy to believe what they want to believe and spread any kind of garbage rumor on FB about the other political side. Apparently becasue they can't justify their vote with legitimate reasoning.



Tenpoundbass says

Liberals are Pedophiles that's why they censored Infowars and Alex Jones, they have so much to hide and fear.

If there is any justice in this world, ALex Jones will be bankrupted by lawsuits for defamation, slander, fraud or whatever. I would rather see this resolved that way, increasing the risk to future hucksters of spreading made up lies and paranoid fantasies as real stories to push on the less intelligent folks out there.

Well since left decided to ban right. I see it as only fair.

I’ll treat left as shitty as they treat right. No love loss here.

Aphroman says

FortWayne says

Time to ban CNN?

There it is

A lone instance of honesty from the right

Finally an ounce of truth from the left.

Aphroman says

I saw a bunch of trucks full of caskets heading towards the FEMA camp

They’re coming for whitey!

Heraclitusstudent says

The reason is simple: this is anti-US propaganda.

A nation exists only because of its inner tribalism, and tribalism relies on narratives, that have to be maintained.

And it's the Legacy Media, not Alex Jones or Donald Trump, that is aggressively peddling Identity Politics, a picture of an irredeemably Racist-Sexist Nation (unless Whites die, or leave all their inheritance to minorities, etc.),

A (reactionary) libertarian pushing civic nationalism and civil liberties, wanting a return to a more hands off federal state, as traditional, cannot be anti-American propaganda. Indeed it is the core narrative/myth, that is under attack by Globalists and the Left for being pesky to their end goals.

Goran_K says

Fundamentally if you really believe in free speech and the 1st amendment, does your statement change anything?

I repeat:
It is obvious that there should be a debate of ideas including about what the truth is, and how the nation should be led.
I would define decadence as a people becoming incapable to recognize and/or react to truths and facts.

In my view we should should not condone LARGE SCALE media (not individual speech), SYSTEMATICALLY (not once or twice or by chance), spreading FALSE information (that is known to be false), especially when it UNDERMINES the nation (for example divide people or affect the credibility of institutions).

Yes, becasue we all know that CNN is a left wing version of what ALex Jones is on the right.

Liberals, circa 1950s
www.youtube.com/embed/kgejIbN9UYA

Democrats, circa 2000s:

(Please, lower your volume, you'll thank me)
www.youtube.com/embed/NJxmpTMGhU0

Heraclitusstudent says

I repeat:
It is obvious that there should be a debate of ideas including about what the truth is, and how the nation should be led.
I would define decadence as a people becoming incapable to recognize and/or react to truths and facts.

yes

Democrats and Progressives, 2000s:
www.youtube.com/embed/llvjtgf9u9M

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

And it's the Legacy Media, not Alex Jones or Donald Trump, that is aggressively peddling Identity Politics, a picture of an irredeemably Racist-Sexist Nation (unless Whites die, or leave all their inheritance to minorities, etc.),

So you don't think it is a problem that we have mainstream media which are increasingly pushing 2 competing biased vision of the world? - because free speech?

I'm worried youtube & itune will ban Jordan Peterson or Sam Harris.
Screw Alex Jones.

Heraclitusstudent says

So you don't think it is a problem that we have mainstream media which are increasingly pushing 2 competing biased vision of the world? - because free speech?

It's a problem, and as long as the Public is prevented from making a fickle bid to ban speech, eventually it will be hashed out. The real threat is actually not the fickle mob, but the clerisy class feeling they aren't being deferred to as they feel they should. I'm a verified twitter blue check with a Masters in Journalism from Georgetown, goddamit, heed my advice that White People should flagellate themselves and quit their job for a LatinX Lesbian left-handed Midget, the dirty slobs!

I'm very confident that American Free Speech Absolutism will win in the end.

The very point of Classical Liberalism is that boisterous public argument results in the most optimal solution, most of the time.

Heraclitusstudent says

I'm worried youtube & itune will ban Jordan Peterson or Sam Harris.
Screw Alex Jones.

I give you Christopher Hitchens, these Classic Remarks again posted on Patnet.
www.youtube.com/embed/cbJxdEg6kFk

Heraclitusstudent says

I'm worried youtube & itune will ban Jordan Peterson or Sam Harris.
Screw Alex Jones.

They're next after Alex Jones. Peterson is being attacked, Harris has been attacked before and you can expect both of them, once Alex Jones, Rebel Media, Sargon, Styxhexenhammer, etc. are deplatformed, to be next on the chopping block from the NYT and CNN and WaPo.

Legacy Media isn't just having a crisis of credibility, it's also increasingly insecure financially for the members, as well. The popularity of New Media is an existential threat as well as an injury to their pride.

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

They're next after Alex Jones. Peterson is being attacked, Harris has been attacked before and you can expect both of them, once Alex Jones, Rebel Media, Sargon, Styxhexenhammer, etc. are deplatformed, to be next on the chopping block from the NYT and CNN and WaPo.

Total BS.

There is nothing that could possibly explode the popularity of the "intellectual dark web" more than an attempt by the mainstream media to silence them. Possibly they would move to own and control that type of quality discussion, but they don't even want to shut it down - even if it does compete.

Remember the NYT, CNN, and WaPo type entities aren't evil at the level of individuals. They are comprised largely of people that would be fans of the some if not most of intellectual dark web

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

They're next after Alex Jones. Peterson is being attacked, Harris has been attacked before and you can expect both of them, once Alex Jones, Rebel Media, Sargon, Styxhexenhammer, etc. are deplatformed, to be next on the chopping block from the NYT and CNN and WaPo.

That they are attacked is good. In fact Peterson's best advertisement is the losing attempts of the media to misrepresent his opinions.
But I think it will be hard to deplatform Peterson or Harris unless they make stupid mistake the way Milo did. The backlash would be enormous.

In fact it may be too late for that. The "intellectual dark web" has millions of listeners and is fast becoming more central to US thinking than media like the NYT. Contrary to Jones, it is centered around reason and reasonable arguments. It has been very adept at rejecting and debunking the party official narratives pushed by the elites. Attempts to misrepresent and discredit them have largely failed, in large part because they have long form discussions in which they can easily set the record straight.

I heard Peterson the other day joke that his book was not on the NYT best sellers list even though it has been the best selling book in the world for at least 6 months. So does the NYT credibility go down every day. They think of themselves are a permanent institutions but they risk crossing a threshold from where they will simply not come back.

When they came for the Liberals, Moche said the "Cock Sucker is in there hiding under the bed!"

Heraclitusstudent says

Jones is deliberately lying, and lying about things that undermine institutions.

Which specific lie are you talking about? Regardless, it's irrelevant. Jones is being censored because the left wants to win midterms and Jones has influence. Period. This is absolutely wrong. Period.

Also it isnt only Jones being censored. Any voices who support individual liberty over progressive values is being censored. These libertarians can be insane like AJ, but can also be classic leftist liberals like Jordan Peterson.

Do you remember when google cut off JP's email? They apologized for the "mistake" of the algo after massive public blowback. Dont kid yourselves though, AJ is just the first to be censored.

The time to stand up against this nazi-like book burning is now

Heraclitusstudent says

I heard Peterson the other day joke that his book was not on the NYT best sellers list even though it has been the best selling book in the world for at least 6 months.

This is happening everywhere and on every level.

It may be comical for an unstoppable force like JP. What about the average Joe who this crushes? Wrongthink voices are being wiped out before they even speak.

Heraclitusstudent says

But I think it will be hard to deplatform Peterson or Harris unless they make stupid mistake the way Milo did. The backlash would be enormous.

]

Legacy Media is just getting warmed up. Can't placate them by offering AJ as the whacky sacrificial lamb, it will just be an appertif to the Censorship Beast.

The Corpratist Globalists and the Left (and the Islamists) are in full panic mode. They see this as one of their few victories, and will want to repeat it, and start going down their little lists... of people who won't be missed. Peterson, Sargon, Styx, Harris, are all on it.

By the way @Heraclitusstudent, @CBOEtrader and the rest, thanks for this old school Patrick thread experience Today.

CBOEtrader says

It may be comical for an unstoppable force like JP. What about the average Joe who this crushes? Wrongthink voices are being wiped out before they even speak.

I disagree. First we don't need 10 JP. All we need 4-5 popular podcasters dedicated to the truth and reason to throw off the mainstream narrative train and rub the media's nose into its lies with devastating efficiency.
Second, Average Joes like James Damore easily become symbols of everything that is wrong with the do-gooders self righteous censorship. Again, shaking their credibility.
More people should do it.
Having the truth on your side helps.

Thanks TwoScoops.

marcus says

Remember the NYT, CNN, and WaPo type entities aren't evil at the level of individuals. They are comprised largely of people that would be fans of the some if not most of intellectual dark web

Isnt this why CNN/wapo/NYT/FOX are dying in favor of actual, honest discussion?

The market is starving for straight facts reporting, and intellectual discussion about those facts.

MSM offers selective filtered facts w massive editorialized spin. MSM's soundbite manipulative format is a fake news breeding ground. They should all go out if business

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

JP is joking he found a way to monetize SJWs.
Nothing pays like saying controversial stuff that is in fact true.