patrick.net

tatupu70 says

Goran_K says

Funny thing is the guy who got gutted and chopped up was a loud mouth lefty who thought he could talk shit to Saudi princes without any consequences.

Guess he learned the hard way. lol

I'm glad you think murder is funny.

Oh no his murder sucked. But his path there is funny in its stupidity. I wouldn’t mouth off about the Saudi royalty as a lefty journalist unless I was packing heat and protected by security 24/7. Even then the odds would still be death.

tatupu70 says

I'm glad you think murder is funny.

Did you read about how Obama murdered Osama?
It was so cool.

Strategist says

tatupu70 says

I'm glad you think murder is funny.

Did you read about how Obama murdered Osama?
It was so cool.

He got off easy. Two shots to the head from an HK556? They should have gone Saudi embassy on him. Oh well.

Strategist says

Did you read about how Obama murdered Osama?
It was so cool.

You're comparing the murder of a Washington Post journalist with the military killing the leader of Al Qaeda who had killed thousands of Americans?

Goran_K says

He got off easy. Two shots to the head from an HK556? They should have gone Saudi embassy on him. Oh well.

Imagine how much information we could have gotten out of Osama, if only we were willing to torture him. We will never know how many lives could have been saved if we knew everything Osama knew. Damn Obama, and his nice guy style.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Did you read about how Obama murdered Osama?
It was so cool.

You're comparing the murder of a Washington Post journalist with the military killing the leader of Al Qaeda who had killed thousands of Americans?

Aahhhhh, so now it's OK to murder.

Strategist says

Aahhhhh, so now it's OK to murder.

Yes, there are laws dictating when the US may kill. They were followed in the case of Bin Laden.

I've seen no such justification from the Saudi government.

Strategist says

Imagine how much information we could have gotten out of Osama, if only we were willing to torture him

Likely nothing. Torture has been shown to be highly ineffective.

tatupu70 says

I've seen no such justification from the Saudi government.

Trumps fault

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Imagine how much information we could have gotten out of Osama, if only we were willing to torture him

Likely nothing. Torture has been shown to be highly ineffective.

Guantanamo Bay and water boarding experts disagree.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Aahhhhh, so now it's OK to murder.

Yes, there are laws dictating when the US may kill. They were followed in the case of Bin Laden.

I've seen no such justification from the Saudi government.

Since when do the Saudis follow our laws?
Obama watched a lot of murders by the Saudis. He did nothing, and neither did his supporters. My, what a difference an election makes.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Imagine how much information we could have gotten out of Osama, if only we were willing to torture him

Likely nothing. Torture has been shown to be highly ineffective.

You mean Osama would never reveal secrets if he was tortured enough? ROFL.

Strategist says

You mean Osama would never reveal secrets if he was tortured enough? ROFL.

Yep--that's what I mean.. What usually happens is terrorists lie during torture.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-fbi-interrogator-torture-ineffective/
https://www.newsweek.com/2016/05/20/science-shows-torture-doesnt-work-456854.html

Strategist says

Imagine how much information we could have gotten out of Osama, if only we were willing to torture him. We will never know how many lives could have been saved if we knew everything Osama knew. Damn Obama, and his nice guy style.

There is no reason for us become like 7th-century barbarians from the desert. Start doing things like they do, and soon become one of them.

tatupu70 says

Loaded question?? lol. All Bob asked was for you to provide ANY evidence backing your ridiculous conspiracy theory about who paid for Obama's education. You made this claim--is it that hard to show why you said it?

I know the goal is to distract from the murder of a journalist by any means necessary, but let's try to stay on topic.

Sorry, I've been asking several questions since the beginning of the thread.

Are you going to answer why Obama did not push any penalties - nor was it demanded of him by Politicians and the Media - when Saudi Arabia executed multiple gays and witches in 2011 and other instances in the Heart of his Presidency?
https://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/13/world/meast/saudi-arabia-beheading/index.html

Why was the Iran Deal made when Iran tortures and executes gays and protesters?

Hassan Afshar, 19, was hanged in Arak Prison in Iran's Markazi Province on July 18, after he was convicted of "forced male-to-male anal intercourse" (‘lavat-e be onf’) in early 2015, the NGO said in a statement Tuesday.

https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-News/Iran-executes-gay-teenager-in-violation-of-international-law-463234

What penalties did Erdogan receive for imprisoning more journalists than any country on Earth, including China?
https://cpj.org/reports/2017/12/journalists-prison-jail-record-number-turkey-china-egypt.php

Yet a Muslim Brotherhood Shill gets whacked, then the Failed Neoliberal Establishment demands instant action!

Until I get answers to these questions, I'm not answering questions that came after mine.

And yes, I have lots of evidence that bin Talal and other Muslim Brotherhood symps arranged money for Obama and others to study, and way beyond that, even. But it's not going up until I get answers to the questions you're dodging.

Indeed, i think I've asked it in other threads, The Silence is Deafening

tatupu70 says

Any time someone questions a Trump policy--the whataboutism answer is, but, but, but what about Obama.

Or when someone questions the Saudis murdering a journalist in their embassy--the whataboutism answer is but, but, but what about Iran.

Nope.

When the Media and Politicians call for Saudi Arabia to be sanctioned and/or the Leader to step down over the Murder of a Terrorist sympathizer....

But embraced the Iran Deal even though Iran was torturing (inc. forced sex changes) and executing Gays and Protesters before and after it was made.

That is:

Whataboutery?
But rather, Hypocrisy of the highest order

That, and Sympathy for the Muslim Brotherhood is rampant at State and in some Intel circles.

tatupu70 says

I'm glad you think murder is funny.

Not crying over Terrorist Shills, the kind who are friends with OBL, who backed the brutal Algerian Islamists back in the 90s by setting up a "Democratic Organization", who back Hamas and apologize for Jihadis Worldwide is pretty normal.

The same people who flip out that a paid shill was executed, don't seem worried about the frequent execution of gays and witches and protesters in Iran or Saudi Arabia or World Record Imprisonment of Journalists in Turkey, all of a sudden are demanding "Justice" over a Terrorist Shill being whacked.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Murder of a Terrorist sympathizer....

This is the typical victim blaming. I've seen nothing to tie Khashoggi to terrorism. (As opposed to the Saudi Royal Family, which is well known to be the #1 funder of terrorism)

There is nothing remotely hypocritical about making a nuclear disarmament deal and also denouncing state sanctioned murder of journalists who dare criticize a State Government.

Still waiting on any evidence of the folks that paid for Obama's education....

tatupu70 says

You're comparing the murder of a Washington Post journalist with the military killing the leader of Al Qaeda who had killed thousands of Americans?

Sure. The former enabled the latter, lifelong friends, too.

Khashoggi was the PR guy for Radical Islamism. There's a reason the Diplo/Intel community's paper of record hired him in 2017.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Sure. The former enabled the latter, lifelong friends, too.

Khashoggi was the PR guy for Radical Islamism. There's a reason the Diplo/Intel community's paper of record hired him in 2017.

I'm sure you'll provide evidence of this at the same time you show evidence of the folks who supposedly paid for Obama's education.

Goran_K says

His exact words were “the crown prince had denied any knowledge of the murder” and Pompeo said he would wait to make a decision about the incident until Saudi Arabian officials completed their investigation.

Pompeo also flew between Turkey and Saudi Arabia and Trump said they'll wait until all the investigations (US, Turkey, SA) are over.

Good, no reason to let the Deep State rush things like they did with Libya and Syria.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Not crying over Terrorist Shills, the kind who are friends with OBL, who backed the brutal Algerian Islamists back in the 90s by setting up a "Democratic Organization", who back Hamas and apologize for Jihadis Worldwide is pretty normal.

I've seen no evidence that Khashoggi was any of those things so the point is moot.

I’m not happy guy got gutted, but I ain’t sad either. He was asking for it.

I'm siding with Patrick here no matter how sketchy the guy this should not stand and I expect the Trump administration to act on it. Doesn't mean they have to go to war. It's a disagreement with Trump's policies if nothing happens, would have been the same for Obummer. Maybe this event can be used to advance further political change over there.

tatupu70 says

I've seen no evidence that Khashoggi was any of those things so the point is moot.

You mean the editorial he wrote for the WaPo a few weeks ago defending the Muslim Brotherhood?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/08/28/the-u-s-is-wrong-about-the-muslim-brotherhood-and-the-arab-world-is-suffering-for-it/?utm_term=.b9d1cf309434
His first "Democratic" Organization was set up to promote and apologize for the brutal and short lived Islamist Regime in Algeria in the early 90s?
That he was on the verge of establishing another Pro-Muslim Brotherhood, Pro-Shar'ia "Democracy" organ called "DAWN"?
His lifelong friendship with MB members and his self-same membership?
His employment with the Middle East Monitor and Eye, Muslim Brotherhood underwritten publications?

The attempt to turn a Propagandist Shill into a voice of Oppressed Journalists everywhere is one big barf bag.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

You mean the editorial he wrote for the WaPo a few months ago defending the Muslim Brotherhood?
His first "Democratic" Organization was set up to promote and apologize for the brutal and short lived Islamist Regime in Algeria in the early 90s?
That he was on the verge of establishing another Pro-Muslim Brotherhood, Pro-Shar'ia "Democracy" organ called "DAWN"?
His lifelong friendship with MB members and his self-same membership?

None of those things show he supported terrorism.

tatupu70 says

None of those things show he supported terrorism.

Khashoggi on 9/11: I'ts America's Fault. Also, Obama was a nice boy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/10/afghanistan.terrorism18

Khashoggi on Hamas Suicide Bombers and Rockets on Civilians: Totally Justified.
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-khashoggi-was-a-victim-of-saudi-terror-and-a-supporter-of-palestinian-terrorism-1.6571267

Yup. Guy was trash. Then he got cut up and put into the trash. Sucks for him.

Khashoggi was Prince Turki's media adviser in the 90s. You all remember Price Turki, he was the Saudi Intel Chief from 1977 to just ten days before 9/11.

Here's what the 20th Hijacker had to say about Prince Turki:

Zacarias Moussaoui made the statements in testimony filed in Manhattan federal court on Tuesday by lawyers for attack victims who accuse Saudi Arabia in a suit of providing material support to al Qaeda.

He said a list of donors from the late 1990s that he drafted during al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden’s tenure included some “extremely famous” Saudi officials, including Prince Turki al-Faisal Al Saud, a former Saudi intelligence chief.

“Shaykh Osama wanted to keep a record who give money because ... who is to be listened to or who contribute to - to the jihad,” said Moussaoui, a 46-year-old French native who pleaded guilty to terrorism charges in 2005.

Moussaoui said he met in Kandahar with an official from Saudi Arabia’s Washington embassy. Moussaoui said they were supposed to go to Washington together to find a location “suitable to launch a stinger attack” on the U.S. presidential plane, Air Force One.

Remember the Saudi's policies of paying Wahabi extremists to go abroad instead of causing problems at home? Prince Turki was a primary architect of that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turki_bin_Faisal_Al_Saud

Khashoggi wanted Political Islam. He and Osama bin Laden and Alaweed bin Talal are all from the same era - they grew up in the 70s and 80s in an age where Political Islam was the wave of the future.

In the United States, the Democracy is constrained by a Liberal Bill of Rights.

Khashoggi wants Democracy, but Democracy constrained by Shar'ia.

In Khashoggi's Democracy, Clerics vet all candidates who must meet their approval to stand for election, and no law they pass can be contrary to Shari'a.

A bill is passed that Homosexuals not executed? SHAR'IA SAYS NO! Struck down for being "Un-shari'a-tutitonal"
A law is passed that Muslims can convert away from Islam? SHAR'IA SAYS NO! Struck down for being "Un-shar'ia-tutional"

Khashoggi's beef with MbS isn't the Saudi Monarchy, it's that MbS is pursuing Liberal Reforms and reducing the reach of the Committee of Vice and Virtue (Islamic Police).
Khashoggi wants MORE Islamic Policing, just in the context of a Cleric-vetted elected system.

The WaPo and the bin Talal controlled and financed think tanks and the MB sympathizers like Brennan in the Deep State downplay Khashoggi's commitment to Shar'ia. The first and last also want revenge for the ending of the Iran Deal and Saudi Arabia's support of the termination.

Finally, there is Presidential Directive 11, made in 2011, that recognizes strategic alliances with Political Islam - read Muslim Brotherhood - to achieve certain goals.

Wow--the personal smear campaign is in full force. Obviously the Republican talking points are out there and being communicated heavily. Glad to see some of the folks have gotten them.

It's so funny to see Khashoggi being linked to terrorism as if that's why he was killed. If he actually WAS in favor of terrorism, he probably would not only be alive, but would have a job with the Royal Family. The Saudis are, and always have been, the #1 funder of terrorism and fundamentalist Islam in the world.

Goran_K says

Guantanamo Bay and water boarding experts disagree.

People who have actually served and have been there and done that like our sec of defense disagree with you and people who are 5 time draft dodgers. What in your long and distinguished military experience leads you to believe torture works? Especially since the wmd intelligence that convinced congress authorize war in Iraq was false information by Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi provided under torture. That worked out well.

It amazes me that there is such fake outrage about a Saudi guy abused by the Saudis who are historically mean guys anyway.

Because Turkey is involved, the whole thing stinks.

Recall the movie "Lawrence of Arabia" when the Arabs were trying to get rid of Turkish control in 1916. After the allies won WWI they got Saudi sovereignty and it was adios Turks (Ottomans)

So, there is no love lost between Turkey and the Saudis. Turkey also doesn't particularly like the USA.

The media is trying to pin the tail on the donkey with blaming Pres. Trump somehow for not being upset enough with the Saudis.

Meanwhile in Mexico, tens of thousands of people are killed by other Mexicans and by the Mexican Army and Marines yet we want more of them to come in here?

Saudi Arabia is no threat in any way to the USA; Mexico on the other hand is. The level of ignorance, violence, drunkenness and anti-American sentiment is astounding if you actually live there. If you visit it's fun because you are a tourist and everyone likes you.

tatupu70 says

None of those things show he supported terrorism.

It's true because I say it's true. That's the way it works.

Hey two scooops. Still working on the list of people saiddi's killed in their embassies and taleil sent to harvard law for islmic studies. ROFLOL. Your arguments have long since become a joke. MBS stepped on his dick big time and showed the whole world who he really was doing it. Give it up.

clambo says

Saudi Arabia is no threat in any way to the USA;

9/11 would seem to disagree with you. The threat is there every single day of the next one. I haven't heard of the new kinder gentler KSA taking any steps (as in actually doing anything not talking about doing something. Form a committee is the oldest do nothing dodge in history) to rein in support of terrorism around the world coming from KSA. The new kinder gentler KSA is actively funding and using Al-Qaida in Yemen as we speak. Which makes the US and Al-Qaida very ironic and unwilling allies in Yemen. I wonder what projects this branch of Al-Qaida will be working on after the Yemen war?

clambo says

Mexico on the other hand is.

Are the mexicans planning to take back texas? I'm pretty sure they don't want it back if it includes ted cruz.

Still happy that Saudi Arabia is getting some negative press at last, even if the very same people who are complaining now had no problem at all with Hillary being so close to them. Sure, the press is almost entirely composed of hypocrites, but in this case they stumbled onto a valid criticism.

bob2356 says

clambo says

Saudi Arabia is no threat in any way to the USA;

9/11 would seem to disagree with you. The threat is there every single day of the next one. I haven't heard of the new kinder gentler KSA taking any steps (as in actually doing anything not talking about doing something. Form a committee is the oldest do nothing dodge in history) to rein in support of terrorism around the world coming from KSA. The new kinder gentler KSA is actively funding and using Al-Qaida in Yemen as we speak. Which makes the US and Al-Qaida very ironic and unwilling allies in Yemen. I wonder what projects this branch of Al-Qaida will be working on after the Yemen war?

clambo says

Mexico on the other hand is.

Are the mexicans planning to take back texas? I'm pretty sure they don't want it back if it includes ted cruz.

No country is a serious threat to us. Islam is a very serious threat to us, and a very serious threat to the rest of the world. Islam must and will be brought to it's knees.

Strategist says

No country is a serious threat to us. Islam is a very serious threat to us, and a very serious threat to the rest of the world. Islam must and will be brought to it's knees.

Still waiting to hear your plan to bring 25% of the world to it's knees.

How about this as a plan: stop sending money to the main sponsors of terrorism around the world:

Saudi Arabia
Qatar
Iran, to a lesser degree

Strategist says

No country is a serious threat to us. Islam is a very serious threat to us, and a very serious threat to the rest of the world. Islam must and will be brought to it's knees.

Sucking up to Saudi Arabia is an odd way to accomplish this.