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My son was accepted into UC Davis, but Stanford rejetted him. He was depressed for a few weeks, but I was very happy, but had to hide my true feelings. I told him, if you go out of state, or a private school, I'll still only pay the equivalent of UC costs - (you come up with the difference yourself).

I know UC has changed over the years, but my relatives who went to UC Davis loved it in the day. I think at least then it provided a better experience than Berkeley or UCLA.

Stanford will change their diapers more often, though, and UC will always require a scrambler.

UCD - Great school. Found a job quickly. He loved it. No regrets.

Best way for kids to be conservative is to pay through life their way instead of getting a handout.

Instant appreciation of work and labor.

For most majors you can learn everything colleges provides by just reading books.

Colleges today are shit, more like propaganda diploma mills. I see so many graduate, can’t do shit. It’s pathetic.

theoakman says

Most people would benefit, not from the education, but from the stigma that they actually accomplished something.

Tee, Hee, too much truth, it is actually a stigma in some circles.

Hands down the value is com/city/junior college for 2 years. Transfer to regional UC or CSU. Lowest debt load, can live at home.

kt1652 says

Hands down the value is com/city/junior college for 2 years. Transfer to regional UC or CSU. Lowest debt load, can live at home.

Yes, this seems to be a valid option in the school cost tuition racket. UC likes to cleanse itself of first and second year undergraduates so much, it gives MUCH greater consideration and financial aid to worthy transfers from junior colleges who have already gone through self hazing and who go right into upper division. Upper division is where you start getting a more valid college experience, anyway.

UC is basically a graduate school that due to appropriations needs handles the undergraduates, too, but in a rather unkind, Darwinian, dog eat dog fashion.

kt1652 says

Hands down the value is com/city/junior college for 2 years.

Problem is that in classes my colleagues teach, fail rate for those who went through community colleges is more than twice than for those who took required prereqs at university. You do not need to learn anything to be passed at a community college. Although universities soon will be the same.

You do not need to learn anything to be passed at a community college.

In Virginia, the colleges like UVa or William and Mary will only accept Community College courses that have been vetted, and the student must have a minimum grade.

HeadSet says

In Virginia, the colleges like UVa or William and Mary will only accept Community College courses that have been vetted, and the student must have a minimum grade.

Fucking racists.

Ceffer says

I would probably send a kid to a nice, off the beaten track private school with a good value system and a nurturing environment. Any kid's ultimate success is going to depend on his own brains, industriousness, ability to work with others, and persistence more than any particular college or degree pedigree.

The second part of that is correct. He doesn't need the private college, another waste of money.

The key is to get the kid through 4 years and earn a degree at the cheapest cost. That means the two first years at a community college, then transfer for the next two years to a state school. Plus, the kid doesn't live at the state school, he stacks his classes over two or three days and commutes. Then, with his free days, he works part time to pay for it.

The degree is only a door opener. The big part is what he does with his brains, persistence and aptitiude to move up the ladder.

d6rB says

You do not need to learn anything to be passed at a community college. Although universities soon will be the same.

They are both there. Neither could care less if you pass or fail. They would rather you fail, so you come back and spend money for another year. College is a business, always remember that, they are in it for the money, not to educate kids.

d6rB says

Problem is that in classes my colleagues teach, fail rate for those who went through community colleges is more than twice than for those who took required prereqs at university.

The reality is, the dropout rate today is like 45%. Many kids take on huge loans to go to 4 year schools, only to drop out after a year or two, but they are still stuck with the payments, and no degree.

Face it, not every kid is college material, some are trade school material, and some are destined to work at Walmart for a career.

d6rB says

kt1652 says

Hands down the value is com/city/junior college for 2 years.

Problem is that in classes my colleagues teach, fail rate for those who went through community colleges is more than twice than for those who took required prereqs at university. You do not need to learn anything to be passed at a community college. Although universities soon will be the same.

This seems anecdotal. I've seen studies that show little difference, to even slightly better bachelor degree success rate for CC transfers vs 4 year university students.

Brand name schools are for careers in banking and management consulting. In those areas, the 'oh-ah' stuff still applies since it's a shell game anyways with the general fortune 1000.

As for tech, since tech is generally a worthless career, always primed for offshoring or automation, it's only important to attend a place like MIT because if you're not able to advance in management, there's always some deadwood group near Kendall Square Cambridge, who'll always keep an MITer on site. And sometimes, an MIT startup can get seed capital easier than a non-MIT one, however, many of those guys do have some sales ability so it's not so black and white.

kt1652 says

This seems anecdotal. I've seen studies that show little difference, to even slightly better bachelor degree success rate for CC transfers vs 4 year university students.

We did statistics on mid-level courses, and it is real.

MrMagic says

The reality is, the dropout rate today is like 45%. Many kids take on huge loans to go to 4 year schools, only to drop out after a year or two, but they are still stuck with the payments, and no degree.

Face it, not every kid is college material, some are trade school material, and some are destined to work at Walmart for a career.

Exactly - but they all are told at high school that they should "go to college". It is fraud and preying on young people. I'd say colleges should have may be 1/3-1/2 less enrollment.

MrMagic says

They are both there. Neither could care less if you pass or fail.

Probably true, with very few exceptions - some tenured faculty still care. Adjuncts will pass everyone so they would not get fired. Administration actually pressures faculty to pass everyone, even if student refused to learn anything.

d6rB says

Many kids take on huge loans to go to 4 year schools

Many parents are also taking on huge loans or borrowing from their retirement to do the same.

Kakistocracy says

Many parents are also taking on huge loans or borrowing from their retirement to do the same.

We have nowadays "college-industrial complex" in addition to "military-industrial complex". There is no need to pay college presidents more than we pay US President, no need to have 1.5 times more senior administrators than faculty, no need to spend tens of millions on athletics, etc.

Rin says

As for tech, since tech is generally a worthless career, always primed for offshoring or automation, it's only important to attend a place like MIT because if you're not able to advance in management, there's always some deadwood group near Kendall Square Cambridge, who'll always keep an MITer on site. And sometimes, an MIT startup can get seed capital easier than a non-MIT one, however, many of those guys do have some sales ability so it's not so black and white.

You can't say that with a straight face.

Who brought you, internet, gps, smartphones, heck computers, solar PV, EV, MRI…?
Soon AV so even the little guy can be chauffeured, on average gain hours a week of wasted time? All engineers and technical folks have one thing in common.
They strive to solve problems with the end result of higher efficiency, which ultimately reduces wasted resources, be it money, human or natural.

Who brought you, subprime loans, housing bubble, credit default swaps, balloon loans, marginable leverage trading, Enron, student loans fiasco…?
I am only at the tip of the iceberg. Masters of the Universe ruined everything.

kt,

did you work in "tech"?

Just asking.

I sure did. The companies I worked for are household names.
When I graduated, my office building had rooms full of drafters.

Design mock-ups such as plastic panels, molded mechanism would take weeks and 10's of thousand $ (back when $25K was good starting salary).
Had to be created by skilled craftmen with years of training or offshore later. Today, 3D printed in a few hours at your office. All those drafters, purchase agents found more useful jobs.

kt1652 says

You can't say that with a straight face.

I'm simply the messenger here. Society, as a whole, does not value ppl in engineering and the sciences.

http://patrick.net/post/1283817/2015-08-13-stem-is-not-culturally-prestigious

kt1652 says

Who brought you, internet, gps, smartphones, heck computers, solar PV, EV, MRI…?
Soon AV so even the little guy can be chauffeured, on average gain hours a week of wasted time? All engineers and technical folks have one thing in common.
They strive to solve problems with the end result of higher efficiency, which ultimately reduces wasted resources, be it money, human or natural.

My degree is in Applied Chemistry/Chemical Engineering and seeing the writing on the wall, I'd moved from engineering to IT, and finally, into finance. Don't you get it? If I could have secured a long term profession in engineering, I would have done it. Instead, I saw the layoffs at R&D centers and decided not to become a statistic.

kt1652 says

Who brought you, subprime loans, housing bubble, credit default swaps, balloon loans, marginable leverage trading, Enron, student loans fiasco…?
I am only at the tip of the iceberg. Masters of the Universe ruined everything.

The seniors of this hedge fund, a.k.a SubMasters of the Universe, are the reason why I'm able to see hoes with regularity today. Otherwise, I'd be the typical engineering chump, who takes one trip to Thailand per year.