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Does Anyone Object to a Merit Based Immigration System?
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2018 Jan 11, 9:50pm 7,745 views 56 comments
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27
Patrick
2018 Jan 12, 12:02pm
Patrick
2018 Jan 12, 12:02pm
MoneySheep says
I studied for a year in Austria in college and was quite shocked to hear that they had a law barring foreigners from owning land.
But now I think it's the right thing to do. Letting foreigners own land is giving them power over US citizens.
And, only citizens are allowed to buy real estate. Foreigners are barred from buying real esate. Land in US must belong to its citizen.
I studied for a year in Austria in college and was quite shocked to hear that they had a law barring foreigners from owning land.
But now I think it's the right thing to do. Letting foreigners own land is giving them power over US citizens.
28
Patrick
2018 Jan 12, 12:05pm
Patrick
2018 Jan 12, 12:05pm
Tim Aurora says
Of course probably some do, but the general tone is very much opposed:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/3/immigration-reform-is-demonized-by-liberals/
We ( Progressives) all support merit based system.
Of course probably some do, but the general tone is very much opposed:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/3/immigration-reform-is-demonized-by-liberals/
29
NewGuy
2018 Jan 12, 12:16pm
I'm not sure if (some) liberals oppose merit based immigration because of job competition or if it's just because they don't think it through. Hillary wanted to give every college grad a green card which would have been a terrible idea. I don't hear much concern from liberals about H1B which is suppressing wages for them according to studies.
I think a lot of liberals are opposed to immigration because Trump wants to curb it and Trump == Bad. Bernie wasn't a fan of H1B, although I think he was extremely hypocritical in being opposed to that program while wanting to grant amnesty to illegals. Maybe it is what you say Patrick, it seems extremely self interested to oppose H1B but support amnesty, especially as a white collar worker. At least open border folks are consistent.
I think a lot of liberals are opposed to immigration because Trump wants to curb it and Trump == Bad. Bernie wasn't a fan of H1B, although I think he was extremely hypocritical in being opposed to that program while wanting to grant amnesty to illegals. Maybe it is what you say Patrick, it seems extremely self interested to oppose H1B but support amnesty, especially as a white collar worker. At least open border folks are consistent.
30
Patrick
2018 Jan 12, 12:26pm
Patrick
2018 Jan 12, 12:26pm
NewGuy says
I'd even go further, and say in their minds Trump === Bad. (javascript joke there)
I think a lot of liberals are opposed to immigration because Trump wants to curb it and Trump == Bad.
I'd even go further, and say in their minds Trump === Bad. (javascript joke there)
31
NewGuy
2018 Jan 12, 1:27pm
I wish this blog had a wiki post option that could be edited by any user. I edited the original post to include objections that I have heard so far, but it would be better if people could edit the list of objections themselves so I accurately state their position.
32
anonymous
2018 Jan 12, 4:55pm
Patrick says
When was this as it's certainly not what I know from recent decades?
I studied for a year in Austria in college and was quite shocked to hear that they had a law barring foreigners from owning land.
When was this as it's certainly not what I know from recent decades?
34
Patrick
2018 Jan 12, 4:59pm
Patrick
2018 Jan 12, 4:59pm
NewGuy says
Sure, that would not be hard, but I don't have any rollback system to deal with vandalism.
What if someone just mangles your original post?
I wish this blog had a wiki post option that could be edited by any user. I edited the original post to include objections that I have heard so far, but it would be better if people could edit the list of objections themselves so I accurately state their position.
Sure, that would not be hard, but I don't have any rollback system to deal with vandalism.
What if someone just mangles your original post?
35
Patrick
2018 Jan 12, 5:06pm
Patrick
2018 Jan 12, 5:06pm
@NewGuy you know, that's a good idea and it would also not be hard to have a revisions table. So for any post, as soon as there is an edit by someone other than the original author, the previous version would get stored, and the original author could revert to any previous version.
Is it worth trying?
Is it worth trying?
36
NewGuy
2018 Jan 12, 8:41pm
I’m sure given the proper UI a wiki would be easy to manage. The question is if the users here are actually interested in learning anything anymore or if they just want to argue.
There’s probably a ton of topics on this board where a sticky wiki page updated with the best info from the thread would be useful. The question would be how big of an issue the vandalism would be.
There’s probably a ton of topics on this board where a sticky wiki page updated with the best info from the thread would be useful. The question would be how big of an issue the vandalism would be.
37
anonymous
2019 Mar 13, 12:51pm
NewGuy says
@NewGuy - Downvotes are not based on logic and serious questions/commentary will almost always get one or more.
It was a serious question. Why the downvote? If you downvoted would you please explain what you don't like about a merit based immigration system like I described?
@NewGuy - Downvotes are not based on logic and serious questions/commentary will almost always get one or more.
38
SunnyvaleCA
2019 Mar 13, 2:09pm
NewGuy says
This would be easy to enforce, too. Five years after gaining provisional residence in the US, IRS filings are checked. If the person doesn't measure up financially, they go home.
3. I'm mostly looking to maximize tax dollars paid by immigrants because that is an objective measure that is super easy to calculate. But I'm not ruling out other factors like special skills or diversity. But I would say 80% of the weight would be for tax dollars.
This would be easy to enforce, too. Five years after gaining provisional residence in the US, IRS filings are checked. If the person doesn't measure up financially, they go home.
39
SunnyvaleCA
2019 Mar 13, 2:15pm
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the RAISE act. Among other things, the bill proposes a "points" system similar to what is used by many countries right now. Trump has endorsed the bill. Trump has also created his own points system — it was on his website a few years ago but I can't seem to find it now.
40
HeadSet
2019 Mar 13, 2:21pm
HeadSet
2019 Mar 13, 2:21pm
APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says
And after all that, you still can't get any.
Give us your incredibly HOTT! lesbians with IQs of 728; your wanton, nubile chicks with nine-figure bank accounts; your insatiable harlots who yearn for ever more schlong unless they're volunteering for three ways with REAL! AMERICA!n MEN! when they're not making us sandwiches.
And after all that, you still can't get any.
41
SunnyvaleCA
2019 Mar 13, 2:23pm
A way to handle parent and other family member visits should be the same as all guest visas: a visa is only granted if it is accompanied by proof of private health insurance that covers the duration of the visa visit. Let the private insurance industry figure it out (and be on the hook for the profits and losses). The insurance should also be required to cover legal and incarceration costs if the visitor runs afoul of the law.
42
Shaman
2019 Mar 13, 2:30pm
Shaman
2019 Mar 13, 2:30pm
Give them an IQ test in their own language, then check for criminal history, then make sure they’re not a fucking Muslim. If they’re over 120 and pass the check, admit them. We can use them, and they’ll make more smart people.
43
SunnyvaleCA
2019 Mar 13, 6:18pm
Quigley says
No. Give them an IQ test in English, the language that should be made the official language of the USA and should be made the exclusive language of government and in-country commerce.
Give them an IQ test in their own language
No. Give them an IQ test in English, the language that should be made the official language of the USA and should be made the exclusive language of government and in-country commerce.
44
Al_Sharpton_for_President
2019 Mar 13, 6:20pm
Al_Sharpton_for_President
2019 Mar 13, 6:20pm
The objections that I have heard go like this: Why should student loan indebted Americans be made to compete against immigrants from free education countries?
45
Reality
2019 Mar 13, 9:16pm
It's not a good idea to let the government decide what the template of merit is based on paper degrees: should a Doctorate degree in Islamic scripture earn higher rating than a Master's degree in basket weaving? Why would either be rated higher than experience as a home-building or a chef without any degree?
IQ test in English and having a high minimum score requirement would be a better idea than edumacation degrees.
A better yet idea would be: $50k for processing fee, then $10k per year sur-tax on top of normal income tax till passing citizenship/naturalization test (which has English literacy and American history/civics tests) and becoming a citizen (usually after 5 years); no welfare of any kind before citizenship. Try it out for a few years, then if the new citizens have a higher than usual propensity to seek welfare after becoming citizens, increase the processing fees, sur-tax and duration before citizenship eligibility!
Also, being in jail or on welfare should automatically disqualify a person from voting during that time.
IQ test in English and having a high minimum score requirement would be a better idea than edumacation degrees.
A better yet idea would be: $50k for processing fee, then $10k per year sur-tax on top of normal income tax till passing citizenship/naturalization test (which has English literacy and American history/civics tests) and becoming a citizen (usually after 5 years); no welfare of any kind before citizenship. Try it out for a few years, then if the new citizens have a higher than usual propensity to seek welfare after becoming citizens, increase the processing fees, sur-tax and duration before citizenship eligibility!
Also, being in jail or on welfare should automatically disqualify a person from voting during that time.
46
anonymous
2019 Mar 14, 2:56am
SunnyvaleCA says
That would eliminate a lot of native born Americans as well.
What is our official religion going to be ?
Are there going to be official new sources, required reading etc ?
Give them an IQ test in English
That would eliminate a lot of native born Americans as well.
What is our official religion going to be ?
Are there going to be official new sources, required reading etc ?
47
Reality
2019 Mar 14, 7:46am
Kakistocracy says
There are plenty certifiably retarded among the native born, afflicted with severe mental disorder among the native born, and carrying deadly contagious disease among the native born . . . doesn't mean immigration laws of the past, present or future should allow in any foreigners with those characteristics.
English literacy is an existing requirement for naturalization, and has been the case for over a century . . . as is the pledge of allegiance to the US Constitution (if you consider that a religion).
SunnyvaleCA saysGive them an IQ test in English
That would eliminate a lot of native born Americans as well.
What is our official religion going to be ?
Are there going to be official new sources, required reading etc ?
There are plenty certifiably retarded among the native born, afflicted with severe mental disorder among the native born, and carrying deadly contagious disease among the native born . . . doesn't mean immigration laws of the past, present or future should allow in any foreigners with those characteristics.
English literacy is an existing requirement for naturalization, and has been the case for over a century . . . as is the pledge of allegiance to the US Constitution (if you consider that a religion).
48
Shaman
2019 Mar 14, 8:08am
Shaman
2019 Mar 14, 8:08am
After some thought, the IQ test being in English would be a better idea. We want to promote study of our language abroad as much as possible. If potential immigrants knew they’d need to be fluent in English to have a chance, they’d study up ahead of time. Or at least the smart ones would, and those are the ones we want.
And before anyone says that this method is racist against say, Africans who have a lower average IQ, let’s note the example of Nigerian immigrants. They consistently break the bar when it comes to assimilation, achievement in education, success in business, and admittance to select schools. In fact, they surpass Asians in the latter regard. It’s gotten to the point where Leftists who love to talk about how much black people are held back by systemic racism are just ignoring the hell out of any Nigerians because it totally breaks their narrative.
And before anyone says that this method is racist against say, Africans who have a lower average IQ, let’s note the example of Nigerian immigrants. They consistently break the bar when it comes to assimilation, achievement in education, success in business, and admittance to select schools. In fact, they surpass Asians in the latter regard. It’s gotten to the point where Leftists who love to talk about how much black people are held back by systemic racism are just ignoring the hell out of any Nigerians because it totally breaks their narrative.
49
Tenpoundbass
2019 Mar 14, 9:15am
Tenpoundbass
2019 Mar 14, 9:15am
I do if they claim we don't have trained people to fill those jobs, when I know for a damn solid fact. Microsoft for example hides all of the High Dive code examples and documentation from American servers but they are plastered all over Chinese, Russian and Indian servers.
Our education system is an elitist Philanthropy turnstile for their pampered kids to get a vanity degree. While real kids capable of learning what is required in the real world are left out and behind.
No more immigration until we build about 10 more major Cities to provide room and jobs for all of the Displaced people already have.
Our education system is an elitist Philanthropy turnstile for their pampered kids to get a vanity degree. While real kids capable of learning what is required in the real world are left out and behind.
No more immigration until we build about 10 more major Cities to provide room and jobs for all of the Displaced people already have.
50
anonymous
2019 Mar 14, 9:32am
Reality says
Oath Of Allegiance Changed: Pledge To Military Service No Longer Required For Naturalized Citizens - this was in 2015
Naturalized citizens will no longer have to pledge to defend the United States through military service when reciting the Oath of Allegiance if they have certain religious or conscientious objections, according to a new policy set out by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.
https://www.ibtimes.com/oath-allegiance-changed-pledge-military-service-no-longer-required-naturalized-2021564
English literacy is an existing requirement for naturalization, and has been the case for over a century . . . as is the pledge of allegiance to the US Constitution (if you consider that a religion).
Oath Of Allegiance Changed: Pledge To Military Service No Longer Required For Naturalized Citizens - this was in 2015
Naturalized citizens will no longer have to pledge to defend the United States through military service when reciting the Oath of Allegiance if they have certain religious or conscientious objections, according to a new policy set out by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.
https://www.ibtimes.com/oath-allegiance-changed-pledge-military-service-no-longer-required-naturalized-2021564
51
anonymous
2019 Mar 14, 9:34am
Reality says
What the fuck has someone being on welfare got to do with someone's ability or eligibility to vote?
That's a good chunk of team Trump supporters in the fly over states and old rust belt cities - got to get them clean enough off the meth and crack to get to the polls first though.
Wrap that flag tighter around yourself and get a few more signed Trump bibles to sell on E-Bay - claim to be a patriot.
Also, being in jail or on welfare should automatically disqualify a person from voting during that time.
What the fuck has someone being on welfare got to do with someone's ability or eligibility to vote?
That's a good chunk of team Trump supporters in the fly over states and old rust belt cities - got to get them clean enough off the meth and crack to get to the polls first though.
Wrap that flag tighter around yourself and get a few more signed Trump bibles to sell on E-Bay - claim to be a patriot.
52
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Mar 14, 10:01am
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Mar 14, 10:01am
Quigley says
Great idea but would never happen because English is a colonialist, racist language.
After some thought, the IQ test being in English would be a better idea. We want to promote study of our language abroad as much as possible. If potential immigrants knew they’d need to be fluent in English to have a chance, they’d study up ahead of time. Or at least the smart ones would, and those are the ones we want.
And before anyone says that this method is racist against say, Africans who have a lower average IQ, let’s note the example of Nigerian immigrants. They consistently break the bar when it comes to assimilation, achievement in education, success in business, and admittance to select schools. In fact, they surpass Asians in the latter regard. It’s gotten to the point where Leftists who love to talk about how much black people are held back by systemic racism are just ignoring the hell out of any Nigerians because it totally breaks their narrative.
Great idea but would never happen because English is a colonialist, racist language.
53
GNL
2019 Mar 14, 10:35am
GNL
2019 Mar 14, 10:35am
I do. Don't we think we have enough immigrants already? Shouldn't we give ourselves time to absorb them? If not, what does America become? This is a serious question.
54
Reality
2019 Mar 15, 7:19am
Kakistocracy says
Conscience Objector exception does not invalidate the Oath of Allegiance requirement any more than Conscience Objector in the context of draft / selective service requirement.
Reality saysEnglish literacy is an existing requirement for naturalization, and has been the case for over a century . . . as is the pledge of allegiance to the US Constitution (if you consider that a religion).
Oath Of Allegiance Changed: Pledge To Military Service No Longer Required For Naturalized Citizens - this was in 2015
Naturalized citizens will no longer have to pledge to defend the United States through military service when reciting the Oath of Allegiance if they have certain religious or conscientious objections, according to a new policy set out by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.
https://www.ibtimes.com/oath-allegiance-changed-pledge-military-service-no-longer-required-naturalized-2021564
Conscience Objector exception does not invalidate the Oath of Allegiance requirement any more than Conscience Objector in the context of draft / selective service requirement.
55
Reality
2019 Mar 15, 7:24am
Kakistocracy says
Here is a well known quote from Benjamin Franklin:
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic."
Are you asserting that Benjamin Franklin was a Trump fan?
Reality saysAlso, being in jail or on welfare should automatically disqualify a person from voting during that time.
What the fuck has someone being on welfare got to do with someone's ability or eligibility to vote?
That's a good chunk of team Trump supporters in the fly over states and old rust belt cities - got to get them clean enough off the meth and crack to get to the polls first though.
Wrap that flag tighter around yourself and get a few more signed Trump bibles to sell on E-Bay - claim to be a patriot.
Here is a well known quote from Benjamin Franklin:
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic."
Are you asserting that Benjamin Franklin was a Trump fan?
56
Onvacation
2019 Mar 15, 7:38am
Onvacation
2019 Mar 15, 7:38am
Kakistocracy says
"He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it.”
Ben Franklin
What the fuck has someone being on welfare got to do with someone's ability or eligibility to vote?
"He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it.”
Ben Franklin
« First « Previous Comments 27 - 56 of 56 Search these comments
We would reserve a small number of visas, 10k per year for refugees, but again stack ranked by hardship level, can only bring immediate family, etc.
No other visas allowed.
Does anyone have a good argument against a largely merit based system like this?
I'm going to list the objections I have heard so far to a merit based system, let me know if I'm missing anything:
- Un-American
- Current laws not enforced, if they were, current system is good enough
- Current system is good enough
- Implementation detail problems, how to rank immigrants, how to enforce / administer system, cost / complexity of system
- We don't need any new immigrants
- Too many Asians