patrick.net

theOrangeManIsBad says

Obesity rates have skyrocketed since they removed lead from gasoline. Those things are a coincidence

Apples are horses and crabgrass vagina.... what? Mask use was a big fat zero in March and April when 10k+ people were attending sporting events and concerts. Those things go away and we wear masks and cases are jumping back near levels where we were in closer quarters with each other, not wearing masks. You don't have an explanation for this.

And what's with the month of October and alt accounts man? Just keep a username.

theOrangeManIsBad says

Now, there have been lots of studies on the spread of the coronavirus. When you have an open mind, new information sometimes leads to a different result.

The old info said millions were to die! The new info says wear a mask just in case you might have a cold so you don't give it to others.

Do you have any links to your "new information"?

One thing that people completely discount is that once mandates were put in place to wear a mask, there are a large contingent of people that no longer adhere to social distancing at places like the supermarket. So, the wearing of a mask actually increases the risk you come into contact with the virus in that setting.

theOrangeManIsBad says

Side note: I made about 5 or 6 posts in the last two days, and none of them were personal or inflammatory. I think two of the posts were removed, and now my posts go into moderation. I don't know if there is a genuine interest in a viewpoint outside of the bubble here. If so, this is a curious way to get it.

I believe Patrick has it automated for new users if they post frequently (I think 5 times?) after registering. It's to avoid bots and spam that would litter the site with BS. Nothing to do with content or comments.

theOrangeManIsBad says

The most important reason is that there were few outbreaks back in April

False. We had more active cases during a time where we had minimal testing and people were still going to concerts, hockey games, spring training games, etc. The outbreaks were massive and we couldn't test them. Covid also didn't get here in March/April. Action was taken in late January to address it on some fronts, one of which was not to wear masks. It's extremely likely that Covid has been in the states since December. It was spreading bigly and because of limited testing it was likely even more widespread than we know.

Think about Chicago in the winter. Anything of entertainment value involves going inside and there generally being 100 plus people. Blackhaks game, 18-20k. We did that from January until April, completely unmasked. We shut that stuff down in April, masks are mandated in May/June and yet with all that stuff shut down, we're closing in on the previous peak WITH masks and WITHOUT sports, concerts, mass gatherings, etc. It's very clear that masks and even social distancing might be doing squat.

theOrangeManIsBad says

Not a reason, but an obvious piece of contrary evidence: After massive outdoor BLM protests with masks in liberal cities, CV cases did not spike in those cities. Instead, they spiked in southern locations filled with people who refuse to wear masks and think/though the CV was a hoax.

They already spiked in liberal and conservative cities, because cities are generally dirty shit holes except the "downtown district" or some other fancy part. If it hadn't spread there, it would have never gotten to rural areas. Georgia has been an example here. Below is today's chart of their cases. They were basically one of, if the not first states to open back up. Sports and mass gatherings are still banned in that state. It was warm in April-June. Why the uptick in cases? Are you saying no one wears masks in Georgia? I don't think the folks in Atlanta would agree.

So why is there a massive uptick in Georgia with more masks being worn and social distancing? This is what the mask pusher fail to realize. All the data is showing the complete opposite. If anything, since mask mandate have been pushed so hard, we're seeing an uptick. Remember, we're starting from a baseline of 0 basically. Nobody wore masks near the end of March. If even 20-30% of the population wears them indoors and they were remotely effective, we'd not see increasing cases. This isn't science, it's data available to everyone. You've yet to refute this besides bring up liberal cities and leadership, none of which have anything to do with the topic.

https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report

theOrangeManIsBad says

Not a reason, but an obvious piece of contrary evidence: After massive outdoor BLM protests with masks in liberal cities, CV cases did not spike in those cities. Instead, they spiked in southern locations filled with people who refuse to wear masks and think/though the CV was a hoax.

Really?

The sickness is real it's the overreaction that's hoaxish.

theOrangeManIsBad says

Our country is in a shitty place right now due to lack of coordinated effort, which is due to failed/no national leadership. We still have wildly differing opinions from the top on down, so there is little chance of improvement in the near term.

Agreed! Biden sucks!

theOrangeManIsBad says

Ferguson's study shows that millions (over a million in US, anyway) would die if everybody continued to live as normal. That's useful information, and it was never proven wrong.

It was disproven by the fact that millions did not die!

theOrangeManIsBad says

I'm not a link monkey

So ya got nothing but unsubstantiated opinion? You and Fauci.

theOrangeManIsBad says

I don't know if there is a genuine interest in a viewpoint outside of the bubble here. If so, this is a curious way to get it.

Patnet IS the opinion outside the bubble!

theOrangeManIsBad says

In late March in GA, cases were doubling every 3 to 7 days, much like the rest of the country. The lockdown slowed it and turned things around. GA opened up too early (according to the CDC guidelines), and the virus started spreading again. The growth rate never got back up to doubling every 3-7 days, but it did spike pretty high after opening too early.

I just posted a graph showing cases and when the lockdown ended in Georgia and a link to the data. Ending the lockdown shows zero movement on cases for months. Not days or weeks, months. Cases start spiking around the time the GA governor gets pissy about mask mandates from Atlanta in July. The federal government issued a mask recommendation April 24th. While 100% of people didn't and won't follow federal government requests, it's likely 10-20% of people followed the request. Again no change in data for MONTHS after a federal mask mandate.

Move to July and there's a bitch fest between the governor and ATL mayor. By this time I'd guess there's at least 30-40% mask compliance even in Georgia when entering a business. But NOW the cases spike. No sports. No mass gatherings. The spin campaign cannot answer for this.

theOrangeManIsBad says

What is preventing it from spiking again in NYC? It's not due to herd immunity, because not enough people have been infected to allow NYC to return to normal.

You or myself have zero clue as most people aren't going to waste their time to get an antibody test. A substantial portion of the population could have gotten this and we'd have no clue and never will. In NY, the governor put sick people in places where there were other sick people. Again, from that data and observing what happened, we know it was a fucking retarded decision. We need to look at the data and facts that have occurred.

theOrangeManIsBad says

The lockdown slowed it and turned things around. GA opened up too early (according to the CDC guidelines), and the virus started spreading again. The growth rate never got back up to doubling every 3-7 days, but it did spike pretty high after opening too early.

You literally didn't look at my graph at all. That's fine. There was no change for months after opening up in Georgia. The only changes happen when MORE mask wearing was being pushed on a daily basis. That's the only catalyst in this as mass gatherings were still banned. It was warm in April-June and people were out on lakes, camping and going to restaurants. The most obvious influencing factor is masks. Name another that can explain the spike in cases in GA?

theOrangeManIsBad says

It's a big social engineering problem that could be solved with effective leadership and communication.

Leadership from who? The grocery store manager? Gas station clerk? Mayor? Trustee? Governor? POTUS? I don't know or care your political leanings, but if you want "leadership" to control your life, we might as well have a dictator. I mean, isn't that what Trump is anyway? Nah, now it's poor leadership, whereas previously it would have been him trying to be a dictator. Thing is you can't have it both ways without looking like an idiot.

theOrangeManIsBad says

Plus, people need instructions on wearing a mask. It might seem unnecessary, but a quick look around at people failing to do it right shows the opposite. The importance of messaging was also known back in March when people were considering mask recommendations. It would be nice if someone in charge could get the message out.

Messaging? You should die a gruesome death if you don't know how to wear a mask if you're not disabled. What are you even talking about here?

theOrangeManIsBad says

When you drive, you ideally wear a seat belt, have an airbag, stay alert, stay sober, avoid excessive speeding, and avoid distractions. You aren't supposed to say, 'I have an airbag, so I'm not doing those other things!'

Don't get the point. Data points to these safety items and laws working. The evidence (AKA DATA) does not point to masks working for THIS virus. You're comparing apples to centipedes.

N95 masks and higher if properly worn and disposed do protect the wearer to a significant degree, but you can't wear them for a prolonged time. If you work in a hospital around many sick from airborne viruses, you will need a full body suit, n/p100 mask plus face shield to fully protect you. Cloth and surgical masks do not protect but may be helpful to reduce droplet spread if worn by sick people. In daily life most of this is impractical and the use and reuse and improper disposal could have the opposite effect. The best protection is to frequently wash hands and not touching ones face and maintaining reasonable distance. The government mandates are unconstitutional and achieve nothing except for destroying the economy and killing more people of other diseases who are avoiding MDs, can't get diagnostic tests due to Covid over allocation or due to not being able to get a negative covid test in time. Heart attacks don't wait for covid test results.

mell says

N95 masks and higher if properly worn and disposed do protect the wearer to a significant degree, but you can't wear them for a prolonged time.

I'm going to look up the some of the studies I've read recently (I should save this shit, lol). So I'm not going to shoot you down immediately, but I've read (not opinion pieces either, studies) that even N-95 masks don't protect against this virus. I know for certain that I've yet to see a study where an N-95 for sure protects you from Covid.

There's a reason early on in March and April every business put up solid surface spit shield at grocery stores and gas station check out counters. Any virus is 100% known to not be able to penetrate a solid surface. Being a small town guy, our gas station put those up in April. I know the owner and most the employees. 10k cars drive by daily, so a lot stop for fuel, snacks and beer. Not one employee has gotten it and they don't wear masks. People hate anecdotal evidence, but is HAS to be taken into account. You cannot deal with 500+ people a day and not have ONE employee get Covid while not wearing a mask.

WookieMan says

I'm going to look up the some of the studies I've read recently (I should save this shit, lol). So I'm not going to shoot you down immediately, but I've read (not opinion pieces either, studies) that even N-95 masks don't protect against this virus. I know for certain that I've yet to see a study where an N-95 for sure protects you from Covid.

They don't protect for sure as they still let 5% in, plus the size of virions may be just below the filters. That's why properly equipped hospitals have their worker weear bodysuits fitting with masks and face-shields for dealing with highly infective airborne viruses. Most ineffectiveness though comes from improper wear and use. Also we're assuming the virus is airborne. You can't wear these masks for a prolonged time without damaging your health. Outdoors any mask is completely unnecessary. For brief periods of poorly ventilated indoor use I'd recommend N95 or higher if you are at high risk. If th me shops and restaurants keep windows and doors fully open mosy cases of transmission can be prevented.

Also keep in mind that South Korean hospitals were able to reduce transmission rates to close to zero just by instituting rigid and frequent hand washing and disinfection procedures for their covid staff, no masks or shields or suits. Which leads me to believe it may not be airborne for the most part. Fact is to this day nobody knows the main mode(s) of transmission. Yet the leftoid lamestream media and fraudci play the know it alls.

mell says

They don't protect for sure as they still let 5% in, plus the size of virions may be just below the filters.

And this is the standard for health professionals (I know you meant microns FYI). Yet we're supposed to cut up t-shirts and strap them to our face? It makes zero sense to an intelligent person. And I agree, there is a certain percentage of blockage and protection, but at the end of the day it's minimal at best and most likely useless. We've literally shut down mass gatherings everywhere and we're still seeing an uptick WITH exponentially more mask wearing. They don't work. There's no other data or evidence I've seen showing otherwise.

The problem is the mask pushers would have to admit we're testing at a substantially high level. That would mean Trump is doing it right. So they focus on the fact we have more cases and voluntarily omit the fact we're testing more than anyone in the world and blame the increased cases on people not wearing masks. And we all know who doesn't wear masks.... Republicans.

WookieMan says

mell says

They don't protect for sure as they still let 5% in, plus the size of virions may be just below the filters.

And this is the standard for health professionals (I know you meant microns FYI). Yet we're supposed to cut up t-shirts and strap them to our face? It makes zero sense to an intelligent person. And I agree, there is a certain percentage of blockage and protection, but at the end of the day it's minimal at best and most likely useless. We've literally shut down mass gatherings everywhere and we're still seeing an uptick WITH exponentially more mask wearing. They don't work. There's no other data or evidence I've seen showing otherwise.

The problem is the mask pushers would have to admit we're testing at a substantially high level. That would mean Trump is doing it right. So they focus on the fact we have more cases and voluntarily omit the fact we're testing more than...

The level of testing is insane, in fact we're testing too much now, but many of these tests are required for travel, MD visits and anything else. Yeah Trump did it right and the mask pushers are in the wrong, any outdoor mask wearing mandate should have been struck down immediately as unconstitutional and cops should voice to never supports such bullshit.

Denninger has reported on this numerous times. Here's a video showing the numbers and charts that expose this mask and social distancing fraud. Different cities, different strategies, different times of enforcing masks and the result is: No difference.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/0dBkf8O3vKg

mell says

Yeah Trump did it right and the mask pushers are in the wrong, any outdoor mask wearing mandate should have been struck down immediately as unconstitutional and cops should voice to never supports such bullshit.

Cops out by me won't enforce anything the gov comes up with. I'm fortunate though. It's worse in most areas. I don't interact with anyone best case 6 of 7 days. Mask or social distancing doesn't even factor into life. But whatever. To lazy to scroll, but I think it was Onvacation maybe? that mentioned masks are essentially armor and social distancing goes out the window. It's creating a this body armor phsycology that actually reverses the progress and make people think they're "safe" when in reality it's no different than not wearing one. Just don't get close to people and wash hands. Not complicated and we can still function as a society outside of mass gatherings.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/swedens-top-epidemiologist-says-we-see-no-point-in-wearing-masks-as-covid-19-cases-drop

Just last week, the Netherlands announced it would not be instituting a face mask mandate, arguing that research shows social distancing rules prove more effective at combating the virus than masks.

“Because from a medical perspective there is no proven effectiveness of masks, the Cabinet has decided that there will be no national obligation for wearing non-medical masks,” The Netherlands’ Minister for Medical Care Tamara van Ark said.

Patrick, you're wrong and all the evidence that supports masks not working is wrong. You're just wrong... just because ;)

theOrangeManIsBad says

Decades of science are not wrong. They just don't necessarily apply to a new virus. Plus, data scientists looking at generic (non-coronavirus 19) data back in March concluded that masks would be helpful. Fauci was reconsidering masks at that time. I'll take the data scientist over the naturopath.

1. Peer-reviewed science says that "masks do not work" for flu - https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article. I have not seen peer-reviewed research about corona, but I fail to see how it would be different, given virus size and similar spread. If there are articles in research journals (not youtube or NYT), I am willing to reconsider my position.

2, If masks are so effective, why NZ gov't did not requite wearing them? NZ was one of the very few countries that was able to completely suppress corona.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12330388

It found there was evidence of potential benefits - but also potential harm - around masks and that the science wasn't conclusive.

But facts do not matter, orangeman still bad, and we all should wear masks as a sign of submitting to omnipotent government.

www.youtube.com/embed/6gnwgZli1_Y

theOrangeManIsBad says

WookieMan says

Don't get the point. Data points to these safety items and laws working. The evidence (AKA DATA) does not point to masks working for THIS virus. You're comparing apples to centipedes.

The point is you do multiple things to cut down risk. If masks help contain some virus particles of a sick person who does not know they are sick, then the masks will help cut down on spread of the virus. Masks don't have to work 100% of the time to be a sensible safety device just like a seat belt doesn't have to save you 100% of the time for it to be a sensible device to use.

Why don't 5 year olds sit in the front seat if we're going to keep going back to the car/vehicle analogy? Yet seat belts work, which I won't dispute. Answer that and you'll understand why masks are useless. You kind of solved your own conversation or argument if we want to call it that.

and awaiting moderation thing is kinda annoying

theOrangeManIsBad says

We don't have lots of cases because we test too much. We test a lot, because we have lots of cases

Because you said so? Dude, come on. Back up something you say. I've posted links and graphs that you can fact check. You can't just keep saying up is up when it's clearly down.

Lol brd6. Good video.

theOrangeManIsBad says

If you decide not to take any other precautions for coronavirus, because you are wearing a mask, it might increase your odds of dying.

What are the odds of dying from Covid? Hell what are the odds of even obtaining this "killer" virus? You're advocating for a solution that "might" infect 1% of the population.

A seat belt protects almost everyone in a car, except for the 5 year old in the front seat. Wearing a mask is the 5 year old in the front seat and you don't get it. Not sure how else to explain this. A seatbelt for a tiny kid in the front seat "can" save them, but it statistically doesn't. Hence why we have laws that prevent kids from riding in the front seat. Some laws make sense, mask wearing has ZERO evidence in stopping Covid. None.

If you want to die on this hill I really don't care. You've proven nothing that masks help prevent Covid. Myself and others have shown otherwise. Balls in your court to pull up the big boy pants.

www.youtube.com/embed/ox-0NusoIAA

Those can be easily sterilized after mfg.. We used to use ethylene oxide on polylactic-polyglycolic acid bone grafts (plastic that turned to mamalian bone in ~12 weeks on average) at a company I used to work for.

theOrangeManIsBad says

a sick person who does not know they are sick

Never before have we locked down healthy people to protect the immunocompromised.

What is the criteria for ending the masquerade?

theOrangeManIsBad says

mell says

The level of testing is insane, in fact we're testing too much now,

We don't have lots of cases because we test too much. We test a lot, because we have lots of cases. Positivity rates are still too high and testing takes too long for the testing regime to effectively prevent infections in locations where most of the cases are. Some states have too many tests, and some states have way too few.

There is no such thing as not enough testing currently anywhere, we're overtesting. Extreme testing is only useful in the beginning if you can still contain it. The cat has been out of the bag since March and we should only test those with symptoms and not require covid negative tests, thisnisnt Nazi Germany. Utter bullshit, unconstitutional and useless. Oh and a money printing machine for pharma companies. Instead we should be handing out HCQ, ivermectin, quercetin, zinc and vitamin D and C to everybody like candy for prophylactic use and as soon as symptoms arise. But that doesn't make fraudci and Co any money.

theOrangeManIsBad says

Here's an easy to digest article:

🤦 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html



Mask mandate put out by CDC 4/24/2020. Most states are following up with their own recommendations by May and June.



You can post links until your fingers go numb. The actual data since mask mandates and recommendations shows masks ain't working man. At all. It shows the exact opposite. The number of cases is jumping hugely with probably 70-80% mask compliance indoors coming from a baseline of ZERO at the beginning of the pandemic. Mass gatherings still banned. Show me data of lower cases since masks recommendation came out and maybe we can get somewhere. Until that happens you're simply not right. Sorry.

The CDC graph above doesn't exist or happen if masks are even 20% effective. Anyone with a working brain knows this. States like Georgia and Tennessee have had restaurants at 50% plus capacity since early May. The bump in cases doesn't start in earnest until all the mask mandates come out.

People need to think. This is data that available to everyone. It's being spun into something else for whatever reason. Masks ain't working and no one has even remotely come close to proving otherwise. I have no interest in posting the dozens of other studies that show masks don't work when the chart above is so blatantly obvious it's almost comical. It would be a waste of time.

theOrangeManIsBad says

mell says

There is no such thing as not enough testing currently anywhere, we're overtesting.

WHO and CDC recommend lower than 10 percent positivity rate.
We have lots of states with higher than 10% https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-covid-19-test-positivity-rates-july-14.html

That means, we are testing a lot, because we have lots of cases in those states, and it also means that we are not testing enough for the current case load. We would be testing too much if we didn't have raging spread. If you scroll down to the testing area in the following link, you will see positivity rates for US and Spain are about 10 percent. For UK, Germany, it is under 1 percent. For France, it's about 2 pe...

That has nothing to do with testing. The positivity rate is what it is and it will automatically decline with going towards herd immunity. A lower positivity rate rather points towards fraud in the US like double counting (retesting etc.). Also the US is less dense so it will take a bit longer to bring rates down but nothing you cited can be influenced by even more insane testing.

mell says

A lower positivity rate

My wife has tested negative twice now. I wonder how this is calculated in the statistics?

Onvacation says

mell says

A lower positivity rate

My wife has tested negative twice now. I wonder how this is calculated in the statistics?

I tested neg once and will have to test again after vacation. I do think n95 masks and above help, not cloth or surgical. But we test so much that we catch plenty of false positives and completely asymptomatic people so any benefit of masks is hidden by crazy levels of testing. We have tested ourselves into a frenzy and feed off the additional positive results in a feedback panic porn loop ;)

2 per million die of Covid-19




100 per million die of traffic deaths.

With crazy death rates like that why are we not outlawing cars?