patrick.net

WookieMan says

Wake me up when you're throwing in $30-40k annually before you spout your mouth off.

Exactly.

I've always thought it would be fun if your vote counted proportionally to how much tax you paid, with people being weighted as 0. I think the long-term result would be lower and lower taxes overall.

Can't wait for tomorrow night. Pleeeease bring up tax returns, mr biden.

I'll bet you one of the first actions of the Mueller Weissman witch-hunt was to go over all of Trump's business and tax filings. Check all the contracts and all the sources of income for leads. (Oh, not expecting leads for actual collusion with Russians. Just "happen" to find something else along the way.)

Between the anti-Republican IRS and Weissman, we'd have 5 more impeachment attempts launched if there were actually anything there.

The only thing "there" is fake-news fodder.

So he used the tax code to avoid paying taxes. Nobody suprised.

Why the precedent, first ever president / major party nominee, so paranoid about keeping the information private? Nothing to be ashamed of, like a balding scalp is nothing to be ashamed of.

Why so paranoid? Nixon, both Bushes, all the rest in his party didn't withhold the information.

Tax avoidance!? I'm shocked!!!!!

Everyone should avoid paying as much tax as legally possible. Don’t give the fucking gov goons anymore than you have to. Only Fucked Cucks feel otherwise and have no business setting policy and tax law as a consequence.

WookieMan says

No thinking person should want federal taxes. That's why I've always found this topic silly. If you care about it, it's likely that you don't pay any federal taxes and are a loser and burden on our country. Go fucking produce and make some god damn money. Wake me up when you're throwing in $30-40k annually before you spout your mouth off.

Constitutionally speaking, there should be NO federal direct taxation of the people of the several States. All of that was to be paid for through import taxes, which what a fucking coincidence (not) would have helped protect jobs and production of goods in the Several States.

TrumpingTits says

ForcedTQ says

Constitutionally speaking, there should be NO federal direct taxation of the people of the several States. All of that was to be paid for through import taxes, which what a fucking coincidence (not) would have helped protect jobs and production of goods in the Several States.

Nope. Direct taxation is allowed. Just has to be done according to apportionment. Exception to that rule is the carve out for income taxes.

Original Constitution. Read up on supporting documents. The people weren’t to be the source of revenue. Yes, laws and amendments have been implemented that have changed that

B.A.C.A.H. says

Why the precedent, first ever president / major party nominee, so paranoid about keeping the information private? Nothing to be ashamed of, like a balding scalp is nothing to be ashamed of.

Why so paranoid? Nixon, both Bushes, all the rest in his party didn't withhold the information.

Because few people understand business taxes well enough to know that Trump Corp did everything right. Government WANTS business to write off depreciation and expenses because downstream much taxes are paid from employed people and property taxes and sales taxes and all those other revenue sources. A business that wasn’t using the tax code AS WRITTEN BY BIPARTISAN CONSENSUS would be guilty of neglect of fiduciary responsibility to shareholders. Google Amazon’s taxes! Think Bezos pays anything?
This is working as intended by Congress, but the lame stream media is exploiting the general lack of knowledge in the public to make it into a quasi negative in the public eye.

That’s why it was never a good idea for Trump to release his taxes. It just makes for a talking point for dishonest Democrats to use against him.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Why so paranoid? Nixon, both Bushes, all the rest in his party didn't withhold the information.

If they're public, there's likely some accountant that will find flaws that will assist the IRS in an audit. You don't put a candy bar in your pocket at the gas station, wanting to pull it out and pay for it but forget and walk out with it. Yes, theoretically it looks like stealing, but the fact remains that any minor thing Trump missed on his taxes is going to get blown up even though it would usually result in a $100 fine and a petty theft charge.

You also can't evade taxes by following the tax law. I've never understood this upset about finding out about his taxes. He pays 6.2% in taxes for every $ he pays a W-2 employee and then whatever federal, state and local taxes they pay. Yes the taxes are linked to the employee (not the employer 6.2% FICA) but they don't pay them without the job he offered. So many people don't understand owning a business.

At the end of the day, from a legal perspective, if it's not required don't do it. Remember, he's POTUS. There's tons of $$$$ coming at the end of this for him. Even if he owes $1B he can just default on it and get a position on Fox or something and make a couple million a year and write some books. All Trump businesses aside, he's going to make $10M+ a year until he dies after he gets out of office.

Shaman says

Because few people understand business taxes well enough to know that Trump Corp did everything right.

What I don’t understand is even if Trump Corp paid 0, it seems like Trump would need to still pull a salary for himself to pay for personal shit and that would be taxed. Are they not showing that in the Leaked return or is there some way if you own a business to run all your expenses through it?

There are only two things that actually matter.
Is the President following the law?
The answer to this is a definite YES.
Is the President susceptible to bribes both foreign and domestic?
Far less susceptible than a Kenyan import to enormous book deals and lucrative Netflix contracts for boring shows.

ignoreme says

What I don’t understand is even if Trump Corp paid 0, it seems like Trump would need to still pull a salary for himself to pay for personal shit and that would be taxed. Are they not showing that in the Leaked return or is there some way if you own a business to run all your expenses through it?

In all honesty I don't fully understand it, but dividend distributions is my guess. He can pay himself and not owe taxes if he has carryover losses. It's likely why he's under audit. When he has a good year he has to pay corp taxes and personal taxes on the dividend distributions. I could be completely wrong, so call me out, but that's my vague understanding of it how my former employer took care of himself financially.

Fake news and Dems running not stop Trump is hundreds of millions in debt and is a security risk. No one has ever cried wolf more than liberal media. Why even call it media just call part of democrat party.

WookieMan says

In all honesty I don't fully understand it, but dividend distributions is my guess. He can pay himself and not owe taxes if he has carryover losses.

Can business losses be used to offset personal dividend gains?

Anyways, one thing that's buried in this story is that Trump made estimated tax payments in 2016 and 2017 of 4.2 million, which he allowed the IRS to keep and apply to future taxes owed. So bottom line, Trumps taxes are very complicated (thanks to the wonderful lawmakers like Joe Biden), and have multi-year implications. So he wrote off a bunch of stuff in 2016 and 2017 to minimize taxes but at the end of the day across multiple years he's paying a shit ton.

ignoreme says

What I don’t understand is even if Trump Corp paid 0, it seems like Trump would need to still pull a salary for himself to pay for personal shit and that would be taxed.

Not neccesserily: some tech CEOs have a salary of $1 and live on money borrowed against the stock they own in their company. This way you can have no income, shitload of debt but live like a fucking king (as long as your company is doing well).

FuckCCP89 says

Not neccesserily: some tech CEOs have a salary of $1 and live on money borrowed against the stock they own in their company.

You’d still need to take some income from your company to service the debt. And ultimately when you die your estate would need to pay the debt, at which point it would be taxed I would imagine.

FuckCCP89 says

This way you can have no income, shitload of debt but live like a fucking king (as long as your company is doing well).

Yes. Semi ponzi scheme, but as you say if the stock value is going up you can borrow on margin tax free and just pay the interest. No different than paying the interest on a credit card that you didn't pay taxes on, just on a larger scale and substantially lower interest rates. And lower rates than income taxes or cap gains taxes.

ignoreme says

You’d still need to take some income from your company to service the debt.

Borrow against the stock. I borrowed $85k on a margin loan. The interest was like $219/mo. I just used some of that $85k to pay that interest monthly. My investment was a house and we refi'd after updating and I paid the margin loan off, but used some of the cash for fun. I've done it, but CCP is 100% correct that this is probably the path to pay yourself that Trump has used. Borrowing against securities to pay yourself.

ignoreme says

FuckCCP89 says

Not neccesserily: some tech CEOs have a salary of $1 and live on money borrowed against the stock they own in their company.

You’d still need to take some income from your company to service the debt

Um, no. You service the debt from the money you borrow. When the time comes you roll everything over to a new loan.

FuckCCP89 says

Um, no. You service the debt from the money you borrow. When the time comes you roll everything over to a new loan.

Got it. Live off money borrowed against your company. No taxes, only pay interest. Then when you die, sell off shares to settle the debt. I assume that would be taxed at long term capital gains rates?

ignoreme says

FuckCCP89 says

Um, no. You service the debt from the money you borrow. When the time comes you roll everything over to a new loan.

Got it. Live off money borrowed against your company. No taxes, only pay interest. Then when you die, sell off shares to settle the debt. I assume that would be taxed at long term capital gains rates?

There could be some kind of cost base reset for inherited securities, but I must admit my knowledge about inheritance laws is practically non-existent.

FuckCCP89 says

There could be some kind of cost base reset for inherited securities

There could be I suppose but that would be a huge glaring loophole. I'm just going to assume the government is going to take their cut when the equity is sold unless someone can point to something different. Given this understanding, this doesn't seem to be a good strategy.

I wrote a spreadsheet :)

If Trump takes out 1 million a year + 4% interest to pay previous years loan, compounding is going to kill him. By year 9 he's going to be paying 370,000 in interest on 9.2 million worth of loans. This would be more then the income tax he would owe as a resident of FL.

By year 30 his interest will be 2.1 million on 53 million dollars of debt.

If he were to die that year, he's going to have to sell equity to cover the debt, government will take 20% of 53 million or 10.6 million dollars. In total he would have paid ~26 million in interest and 10.6 million in taxes, or roughly 1.2 million dollars a year in cost, for an effective tax rate of 120%.

Even if I'm wrong on the taxes and he ends up paying 0 in taxes, he's still paying 860K per year in interest on average, or 86% tax rate on 1 million of income.

What am I missing?

Brd6 says

Shaman says

The NYT tax report

they should do Biden next, but I doubt it will ever happen

Good point. Are Biden's tax returns available?

HEYYOU says

Wonder what a civil war will be like with 400,000,000 guns?

All of them owned by Republicans.

How can you even wonder?

The Democrats are the lying hypocrites who want to use the tax code to social engineer and alter our behavior.

Biden and his ilk are against a simple tax system.

Biden has the gall to mention Trump’s taxes and minutes later say he will raise taxes on 1. Individuals 2. Corporations

I’m going to check out Puerto Rico; if you live there you pay no taxes.

I have heard bad and good things about the place.

clambo says

I’m going to check out Puerto Rico; if you live there you pay no taxes.

Best way I’ve heard of avoiding federal income tax is to move outside US to a country with no income tax and then spend < 30 days a year on US soil.

You get about your first 100K income per year tax free. Depending on what country you pick that’s plenty.

Want to avoid all taxes you gotta renounce US citizenship, which I won’t do.

What the Individual Resident Investor Tax Incentive (formerly Act 22) saves you is the income tax on dividends and capital gains—under the tax incentive, these are taxed at 0%, as long as you are a bona fide resident of Puerto Rico. Similarly, with the Export Services Tax Incentive (formerly Act 20), you are required to pay yourself a reasonable salary and must pay income tax on that amount, but otherwise, your corporate income tax rate is only 4%

Puerto Rico still looks like a tax haven depending on which types of accounts I use for income.

I hadn’t heard of Act 22 before (actually it’s act 60 now). Read up quick, seems okay, not great.

You’re only tax exempt on the gains you make after you move to PR. For first 10 years you’re taxed at normal rates on gains made in US. After 10 years it drops to 5% which is nice I guess. But there’s also a 10K per year required charitable donation you need to make.

So it’s okay, especially if you have hundreds of thousands of capital gains per year. But I’m not sure it’s going to help your average well off retired person.

shit there is always a catch.