patrick.net

Onvacation says

G36 says

G36 says

Your tables contradict each other.

How can bitcoin be anonymous and traceable? Not only do your tables contradict each other they contradict themselves.

Onvacation says

How can bitcoin be anonymous and traceable? Not only do your tables contradict each other they contradict themselves.

I noticed that. Trying to stay away for crypto talk as we are never all going to agree. You literally cannot have something traceable yet anonymous. Crypto is also not theft proof. It's not portable when electric goes out. It's not decentralized. Big brother will come after you for taxes due because it's not anonymous. These charts are flat out propaganda. I hope you crypto guys get that. It's why we post on these threads. Almost 60-70% of what is in those charts is false.

I agree with the anonymous thing - that it can be confusing. I signed up with some exchanges and other apps (Robinhood/Paypal) to buy Bitcoin. You submit your social etc. So not anonymous. One exchange also sent me a friendly note that transactions will be reported to the IRS. :)

When I send BTC to another BTC address, the receiver doesn't know what my name is etc. So maybe that's meant by anonymous? For me this point is kind of irrelevant. I dont need it to be anonymous. I have nothing illegal in mind and have no problem with the IRS being able to trace my transactions. So the anonymous thing isnt really a talking point for me.

All Bitcoin transactions are traceable on the Blockchain. I mean this is really the point of the whole thing isnt it?
"A distributed ledger is a consensus of replicated, shared, and synchronized digital data geographically spread across multiple sites, countries, or institutions. Unlike with a distributed database, there is no central administrator"

But you dont necessarily know who owns the Bitcoin address. You would maybe know if you are in contact with the exchanges and they tie the address to a user account on their exchange.

Wookie, I would say its decentralized. No single entity is in charge of Bitcoin. However, I do agree the government can shut down exchanges and if that happens you cant easily convert it to FIAT. I dont mind or fear regulation by the government. I think its absolutely essential to have a tax framework and other regulation on crypto.

I would not say that these tables are propaganda. You try to compare Fiat, Gold and Bitcoin. If you guys have a better comparison table, please share. I literally spend 2 min on pulling this. There are tons out there. The last one here is my favorite out of the two but if someone has another one please share.

A lot on these tables is obvious and self explanatory....obviously you cannot program FIAT or Gold. Obviously FIAT is not scarce. Obviously a brick of gold isnt as easy to move as a crypto hardware wallet (kind of like a USB stick). Its just meant to compare and show the traits of the three not to bash one over the other. Its gotta be fair, so this should be a line item as well:
Government can shut down exchanges: No for Fiat, Yes for Crypto.

built a position in some other cryptos

G36 says

If you guys have a better comparison table, please share.

LOL, I said a better one. Not one that leaves out the most important traits.
Conveniently you left out scarcity, decentralization, security (cannot be counterfeited), programmability. And you list "pays dividends, we know Bitcoin, Gold and the dollar doesn't pay a dividend. Other cryptos do though (staking).But Bitcoin has appreciated greatly over the years.

this one
I would almost like to add appreciation? The dollar loses purchasing power each year. Gold is somewhat stable. Bitcoin is outperforming.



BTC has greatly outperformed Gold:

https://charts.woobull.com/bitcoin-vs-gold/

G36 says

Conveniently you left out scarcity

What happens in 2040 when the last coin is mined?
G36 says

security (cannot be counterfeited)

Bitcoin can be lost or stolen, just like Gold and cash.
G36 says

programmability.

What does that mean?

in 2040? how do you come up with that? I thought you researched Bitcoin?
Security: already answered that, scroll up.
"what does that mean" really? Do I recall you are claiming to be a software engineer or is it being back to being permanently on vacation now? :)

G36 says

Conveniently you left out scarcity, decentralization, security (cannot be counterfeited), programmability.

Onvacation and I are on the same page. As I converse about this topic I'm trying to be less combative as it doesn't move the conversation forward. If your coin hits an internet connected computer or is acquired through an exchange, it by default is not secure from theft. Neither is gold (I'm not a gold bug). But I can at least invest in my own safe and weapons to protect it. Talking physical gold here. Government would never know about it as long as I wasn't withdrawing $10k+ cash from the bank to purchase physical gold. By default it's better.

Factor in we just assume we'll have electricity all the time, which is needed for BTC or crypto to even exist. That's not a given in times of turmoil when you might need to stay alive and transact with something. Even dollars would be effective if a nuclear EMP went off. We're a first world country that will experience 3rd world conditions at some point. In that case, crypto is 100% useless.

All that said, I really do want you guys to make money. Unless you attack me or my family, I want everyone to succeed. I always want to be the best, but I know other people are smarter and more successful than I can be. I'm not jealous. Good for them, they did the work and in some cases got lucky. I don't begrudge them. Crypto is extraordinarily dangerous though. There's no counter to my above gold comments and I have exactly $0 invested in gold physical or funds. Tread lightly and keep your risk to a minimum of financial assets. When it crashes you likely won't even have the time to react. So take the gains when you can to pay off your original investment is my only advice. Do not hold it as an investment long term.

G36 says

in 2040? how do you come up with that? I thought you researched Bitcoin?
Security: already answered that, scroll up.
"what does that mean" really? Do I recall you are claiming to be a software engineer or is it being back to being permanently on vacation now? :)

So you are "investing" in something you don't understand? Seriously, you don't know that the artificially scarce bitcoins are estimated to be all "mined" by the year 2040?

You say Bitcoin is programmable as one of its features. What does that mean to you?

Wookie, I think you have some great points.
Yes, exchanges can be hacked and your crypto can be stolen. But you cant counterfeit one Bitcoin. Also, my hardware wallet can be stolen. Then I would have to restore it.
You cant do much with my hardware wallet without password/private keys.

Electricity is absolutely needed. If a nuclear EMP went off we would be in trouble. 20, 30, 50 years from now our electricity consumption will likely continue to increase. My solar panels are doing a great job though to avoid the monthly bill.

I am actually planning on holding long term (at least a year). We'll see how I do. I posted my screenshots.

What I like about your posts is that you have valid points without calling people names (Bitcoin investors are fools, millennials are idiots, etc).

OnVacation said he researched Bitcoin but in his comparison he leaves out the key differences like scarcity, decentralization and the fact that a Bitcoin cannot be faked/counterfeited. It also doesn't make sense to call Bitcoin investors fools and say at the same time when they sell at a profit, they are no longer fools. As you said, that kind of style doesnt move the conversation forward. And I dont think he actually wants to have a meaningful conversation.

G36 says

OnVacation said he researched Bitcoin but in his comparison he leaves out the key differences like scarcity, decentralization and the fact that a Bitcoin cannot be faked/counterfeited. It also doesn't make sense to call Bitcoin investors fools and say at the same time when they sell at a profit, they are no longer fools. As you said, that kind of style doesnt move the conversation forward. And I dont think he actually wants to have a meaningful conversation.

He's blunt. That can rub people the wrong way. Doesn't mean he's wrong though. Also doesn't mean it should influence what you do. I don't think he has a problem with your investments, but a lot of crypto guys/gals make grand claims that it's going to the moon. You haven't done that, but it's why we're skeptical of anyone posting on the topic. Is this a pump basically?

By default, it's riskier than gold, stocks and other traditional investments. The biggest negative for me is not knowing if someone holds 50% of all coins or not. Nobody knows that. That person/entity could manipulate the market and you'd be toast in 10 minutes. Happens with penny stocks all the time and those entities have to report on financials and ownership. I'm a broken record, but knowing a couple people that have gotten burned and lives destroyed, I despise crypto. Doesn't mean it cannot make someone money. It's just there are better and safer ways.

Inflation would go crazy, but I really do wish everyone makes a shit load of money in whatever they do. I personally don't believe crypto is a path to wealth outside of it being a lotto ticket and you win big or maybe the $20 scratch off variety and you win $200. Most the time you're going to lose. The beauty in all this is if I'm wrong it doesn't matter as I'm not invested in it. I do wish y'all luck though. As Onvacation says though, don't be left holding the bag during the inevitable collapse. It's a when not if.

Onvacation, what are you talking about. How do you come up with that. Provide a source! You said you researched it.

Thats fair Wookie. I dont make ANY claims other than showing what I bought. I simply want to see what happens in a year from now by holding. Maybe (hopefully) I will be in a position to brag about gains or maybe I will lose money. Thats not pumping.
Yes, its a lot riskier! The gains and loses can be extremely higher than traditional investments.

Onvacation is not just blunt though. He makes claims and doesnt provide a source (2040??) and he does his own comparison between BTC, gold and money and didnt even include key differences like scarcity/decentralization. He's obviously just here to bash and misinform.

G36 says

Onvacation, what are you talking about. How do you come up with that. Provide a source! You said you researched it.

What are you talking about?

Onvacation says

G36 says

Onvacation, what are you talking about. How do you come up with that. Provide a source! You said you researched it.

What are you talking about?

2040

And you still haven't said what you think bitcoin "programmability " means.

G36 says

Onvacation is not just blunt though. He makes claims and doesnt provide a source (2040??) and he does his own comparison between BTC, gold and money and didnt even include key differences like scarcity/decentralization. He's obviously just here to bash and misinform.

What misinformation?

Why dont you answer the question :) you make up stuff and dont provide a source. How did you come up with 2040? Provide a source. You said you researched it :)

Onvacation, it takes you awfully long to find a source for your claim that all bitcoin will be mined by 2040? Why? How did you come up with this? provide a source. You said you researched Bitcoin. Show it!

Ok. You know bitcoin is artificially scarce. When do you think the last bit "coin" will be "mined"?

Don't speculate from ignorance.

ahahaha he cant answer the question :) he keeps trying to distract.

it takes you awfully long to find a source for your claim that all bitcoin will be mined by 2040? Why? How did you come up with this? provide a source. You said you researched Bitcoin. Show it!

does googling take you so long? You are an alleged software engineer and claimed that bitcoin will be fully mined by 2040? Why cant you find a source for it? Did you not research it?

Onvacation says

G36 says

Conveniently you left out scarcity

What happens in 2040 when the last coin is mined?


Where does it say that on the internet? why wont you provide a source?

Typo. I meant 2140.

They are going to try to keep the scam going for another century of artificial scarcity.

Onvacation says

Typo. I meant 2140.

They are going to try to keep the scam going for another century of artificial scarcity.

bawahahahahahahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhahahahahaahah

Emotions have no place in investing.

Gambling can be exciting!

Your turn:Onvacation says

And you still haven't said what you think bitcoin "programmability " means.

That is so hilarious....all this time he thought Bitcoin will be fully mined in 20 years.....when pressed on showing a link, he tried everything to distract from it.....and now its a typo and he meant 120 years from now. Thank you for the laugh dude!

About the "programmability " thing. How do you program a bitcoin?

It's OK to say you don't know.

Nice research dude! you were only off by 100 years!

I doubt if it makes it to 2030

About this "programmability " can you explain what you mean?

I gotta leave this as is for a while. This was too good. Thank you again for the laughter. Talk to you later!

When you have an answer get back to us.

G36 says

That is so hilarious....all this time he thought Bitcoin will be fully mined in 20 years.....when pressed on showing a link, he tried everything to distract from it.....and now its a typo and he meant 120 years from now. Thank you for the laugh dude!

Ignorance is no sin if you are willing to be educated.

Last count I have programmed in 19 languages over my career. I could probably duckduckgo it but I was wondering what. G36 says

programmability

means to you?

G36 says

I gotta leave this as is for a while. This was too good. Thank you again for the laughter. Talk to you later!

Not meaning to offend you @G36 I just believe you lack knowledge of crypto. You came here asking for advice and you got plenty.

If you still think Bitcoin is a valid investment and not a Ponzi scheme where the early adopters make money and the latecomers get left holding a flash drive, good luck.

My disrespect is for Bitcoin, not you. That's just my educated opinion.