patrick.net

He didn't leave his family behind. They were rushed out of the country as well.

The last thing that went through his mind.


"Oh no, my Butt Lover John Brennan will never get to pound me in the ass again."

richwicks says

Have you ever seen the bases the US has across the planet?

Have you seen the unprecedented peace and prosperity the vast majority of our generation has enjoyed since Pax Americana?

After 2 disastrous World Wars in Europe and another 100 million humans killed by Communists who meddled far outside their borders creating Marxist misery around the planet, I'm not too bothered by the US keeping a lid on things........at relatively low cost to our blood and treasure.

> richwicks
It's not always obvious how your response relates to the question. Example: richwicks says

https://www.voltairenet.org/article164432.html

Perhaps not.

My point was that N.K. and Israel are completely different in terms of threat recognition from within US. To which you respond with an opinion of this Israeli professor and how he thinks that for it's own survival, Israel has no choice other than to transfer Arabs to outside the border. An opinion which is not Israeli official position and which no one takes seriously because it's not practical or even possible, knowing how Israel treats it's citizens - Jews, Arabs, and others. Your response doesn't seem to relate to my point, even remotely.

richwicks says

Because Saakashvili was a US asset, and we ordered him to. We did this during the Athens Olympics to embarrass Putin. The US did everything they could to humiliate Russia during the Sochi games as well and the world world cup.

This theory goes against everything that actually happened as a result of this action. You do realize this, don't you? Putin was NOT embarrassed as a result, and it did NOT look like US was prepared for this at all. If this was pushed by US, it was obviously a huge screw-up. Did heads roll? How many people in US got fired?
Look. I may enjoy a good conspiracy theory just like the next guy, but when you develop a worldview which is based on unprovable, at the very least it should be internally consistent.

richwicks says

Look, it's the US that specializes in proxy wars. The US went to Vietnam because France refused to join NATO if the US kept up their agreement with Ho Chi Minh and supported independence for Vietnam

"Proxy war" doesn't mean what you imply it means. In Vietnam, US had it's boots on the ground, which is something other than "proxy". Afghanistan is a better example, although: 1) US was open about it and 2) in Afghanistan US was fighting USSR who were the invaders there. Russia in Ukraine would be a much better example of a proxy war: whatever Russian military is there is arranged through contracting companies and Putin denies the involvement, despite all the evidence. Which most think is part of the reason why Russia fights tooth and nail the MH-17 situation, despite all the evidence yet again - you simply can't continue denying if you admit the presence of BUK and it's operators. So was S. Ossetia, and so was Transnistria, the proxy wars.

Ukraine, failing or prospering, wasn't my focus. Russia was, with it's attempts to influence the world through proxy wars among other things.

As for "Russian Collusion", Russia was, and still is, actively involved in social online experiments in US, just in a different capacity. Their goal is to sow discord, and there's little doubt that they were/are quite active at it. Reference to a foreign power with state-sponsored anti-US online troll factory shouldn't even be used in the same sentence as "ally".

On your questions about Mossad: I'm not having a conversation which is built on conspiracy theories if it ignores the obvious and provable.

Why do you bring up USS Liberty? It's a known fact, classified as a mistake (friendly fire), Israel was apologetic ever since, and paid around $70mil in today dollars in retributions. What now? Shit happens. This shit happened over 50 years ago.

Why do you bring up 9/11? Entire world knows how Israel reacted to it, and how Arab world reacted to it. Or do you suggest that Israel was behind the attack? I'm going to stop here, this may be good.

mostly reader says

> richwicks
It's not always obvious how your response relates to the question. Example: richwicks says

https://www.voltairenet.org/article164432.html

Perhaps not.

My point was that N.K. and Israel are completely different in terms of threat recognition from within US. To which you respond with an opinion of this Israeli professor and how he thinks that for it's own survival, Israel has no choice other than to transfer Arabs to outside the border.

That's not what I was referring to:

In his view, the continued struggle of the Palestinians will inexhorably lead to the collapse of the State of Israel. Which is why Tel-Aviv has no choice but to "transfer" the Israeli Arabs and the stateless Palestinians beyond safe borders (that is, not only outside the 1948 borders but also from the 1976 occupied territories and, ideally, from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip). In the event the Europeans opposed such a transfer, in order to survive Tel Aviv will be forced to destroy the European capitals with nuclear weapons, it being understood that the Europeans will be unable to retaliate without annihilating their Palestinian friends.

If you recall you said that the idea that Israel might fire nuclear weapons of it's "friends" is a laughable idea but North Korea might be a credible attacker. That's my counter example. This is the same country that murdered Count Bernadotte, and also have a memorial park named after him for all his work in the Red Cross and getting concentration camp victims out of concentration camps.

These are the same people that considered the Samson Option. They are prepared to commit genocide and they probably will at some point. The end game was always the complete removal of the Palestinians.

They are an interesting crazy country. Did you know perhaps all the dead sea scrolls were ALL probably faked? It's to establish that there's a "deep connection to the land" for a "land without a people" for a "people without a land". The propaganda of that place, it is astounding. You question it though, and no, you're anti-Semitic! Question ANYTHING Israel has done, ever, and you are branded that.

The Palestinians are probably the ancient Jews of the Bible. Those Mulsims were pretty forceful about conversion at one point. Of course, the Romans were too. I don't really care any more. You can't have a logical discussion about it, and morality doesn't matter. West Bank and Gaza will be Israel at some future date, probably expansion into Syria first, then I have no idea - some say they want to take over the entire Middle East over the course of centuries, I won't live to see it.

mostly reader says

As for "Russian Collusion", Russia was, and still is, actively involved in social online experiments in US, just in a different capacity. Their goal is to sow discord, and there's little doubt that they were/are quite active at it.

Why would Russia do this? They're ridiculously ineffective at it.

Here, want to destabilize this nation? OK, try to normalize pedophilia like making some "good foreign films about it", call all people "white nationalists", "racists" and other slanders if they refuse to go along with radical agendas of what are basically children, have the nation's "news" lie to them about why they went to war in EVERY case, and basically gaslight the entire population or just have the "news" just lie, about every fucking thing. For example "mostly peaceful protestors".

But, Russia isn't doing this, my own intelligence agencies are doing this. This is Operation Mockingbird, it is real, it came out in the Church Committee. What is destabilizing this nation isn't Russia - it's the CIA. Russia doesn't have to do anything other than sit back and watch this nation's intelligence agencies destroy this nation. We just had a coup - the CIA did it.

mostly reader says

On your questions about Mossad: I'm not having a conversation which is built on conspiracy theories if it ignores the obvious and provable.

I don't actually really want to talk about it but it was direct experience with GIYUS and Hasbera that made me aware of how pervasive propaganda is.

You can't get a government contract now in 1/2 the states if you criticize the Israeli government, regardless of what they do. Did you know that? I can be fired for what I'm writing right. Great to have a 1st amendment isn't it? Constitution had it's final death throws November 4th, 2020.

mostly reader says

Why do you bring up USS Liberty? It's a known fact, classified as a mistake (friendly fire), Israel was apologetic ever since, and paid around $70mil in today dollars in retributions. What now? Shit happens. This shit happened over 50 years ago.

It wasn't a mistake. It was a false flag to provide an excuse that Lyndon B. Johnson needed to go to war with Egypt. The plan was to sink the ship, kill everybody on board, and then say Egypt did it.

Same sort of crap of the Lavon Affair.

All the men of the USS Liberty wanted was a congressional hearing. They never got it. I used to listen to the odd survivor on radio shows in August. Nearly everybody I used to listen to I think is dead, or just too disheartened to do an interview. The youngest has to be 70, and they didn't have any seniority.

mostly reader says

Why do you bring up 9/11? Entire world knows how Israel reacted to it, and how Arab world reacted to it.

Yeah, our "news" media showed archival footage of a bunch of Palestinians at a wedding, and claimed it was Palestinians at the time celebrating the destruction of the world trade centers. Remember when ABC "news" showed footage of a Kentucky gun show and claimed it was Turks attacking Kurds? They have been doing this shit for decades. They used to always get away with it, because there wasn't enough people on the Internet to call it out. Now there are, so there's censorship.

Of course Israel was involved with 9/11, as were our own intelligence agencies. Do you really think that 30 minutes after it was painfully obvious planes were being used as weapons, that Flight 77 could fly into the most highly guarded airspace and hit the building that has the headquarters for the department of defense? People had to know it was hijacked - all they had to do is see the flight plath. I'm sure aircraft controllers all over the country were checking in all flights.

Meanwhile you have a bunch of illegal immigrant Israelis who have come to NYC of all places. to work as "movers". And 5 of them record themselves in front of the WTC, get arrested, and all their photographs and videos are classified as top secret, and they are quietly deported. Uraban Moving Systems (the front they worked for) then immediately packs up, and goes away.

People just aren't cynical enough.

Probably the US makes use of Israel because criticism of Israel is forbidden and can be easily dismissed as antisemitism. Israel is sacrosanct.

ISRAHELL!!! They had multiple elections to settle on a government these past 3 years with vicious infighting between Gantz and Bibi and the third parties with only a very weak compromise that's barely holding after several elections. Not a surprise if you've ever seen Jews discuss any topic from Quantum Physics to the Which Chinese Takeout to Order From... 2 Jews = 4 Opinions... but they are in perfect secretive lockstep, unified, and absolutely implacable on Der Zionische Plotten to Taken Overzee Vorld.

I have the guy on ignore, but let me say, Winston Churchill lit a cigar, did a jig, and said "We're saved!" on December 7th, 1941.

Also the Liberty was 100s of miles off course, did not receive messages (the 6th Fleet completely revamped their comms in the following months), and was a "Liberty Ship", a mass produced WW2 Cargo Vessel produced in the hundreds, of which Egypt had several, including in their Navy as converted auxillary military support vessels. Israel paid within weeks damages, and then paid out tens of millions more in the next year or so. The US Embassy Liason for Military Affairs did not know it was there, and the IDF trained for air superiority and ground support, they had next to no naval training. The NSA actually has the transcript, you can literally read Israeli pilots talking about it's lack of markings and debating which Egyptian ship it was, I've posted them here before but a 5 sec search will find them.

NoCoupForYou says

DA JOOS!!! They can't settle on a government these past 3 years with vicious infighting between Gantz and Bibi and the third parties, but they are lockstep, secretive, and absolutely implacable on Der Zionische Plotten to Taken Overzee Vorld.

Like I said "You can't have a logical discussion about it". If you attempt it, INVARIABLY, somebody comes up and creates a strawman attack. Every fucking time.

Did I say anything about "Der Zionische Plotten to Taken Overzee Vorld"? I'm pointing out that Israel's plan it to expel the Palestinians in time and expand. This will probably take another 50 years. It has to be done slowly.

But again, what's the point of trying to discuss it? You spend all your time explaining strawmen, with a true bigot, who knows they are misquoting you, and don't want to discuss the actual situation but more importantly - they don't want YOU discussing the actual situation. People aren't allowed, at all, ever, to talk about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

It is obvious that it's headed for a one state solution with the Palestinians gone. That's the only reason Israel can't declare their borders and never will. Palestinians can't be integrated at this point into a one state solution, not enough land is left to make a "Palestinian" state. It doesn't matter, it's inevitable.

NoCoupForYou says

Also the Liberty was 100s of miles off course, did not receive messages (the 6th Fleet completely revamped their comms in the following months), and was a "Liberty Ship", a mass produced WW2 Cargo Vessel produced in the hundreds

"100's of miles off course"? It was north of the Sinai in the Mediterranean.

https://goo.gl/maps/WCunb88qTtBpmpN88

You tell me where it was supposed to be, and where it was. Pay attention to scale there. Was it supposed to be West?

This is the same nonsense I'd get in the 1990s when somebody would tell me that the survivors already got their Congressional hearing although they couldn't name a date, when it happened or any details - because it didn't.

People aren't allowed to discuss this.

Just about everything about the USS Liberty was classified after the incident. The only information you get about it is disinformation and some bits from the survivors who are shouted down and denounced as anti-Semitic simply because they had questions that were never answered.

Don't worry, the last one will be dead in 10 years.

But good one "100's of miles off course". Good one. Haven't heard that one before.

richwicks says

That's not what I was referring to

So what? Again: it's a professor who doesn't represent Israel just like pro-Palestinian Israeli academics, or "Minds of Piece", or the Israelis who tried to break the sea blockade, don't represent Israel. You are cherry-picking data points to fit the worldview.

richwicks says

Why would Russia do this? They're ridiculously ineffective at it.

I'm not a mind reader to answer the "why" question, but Troll Factory is a fact. Titled "Internet Research Agency", located in a suburb of St. Petersburg (Olgino) in the past, not sure of it's whereabouts and status today. I'd say that they were quite effective.

richwicks says

Meanwhile you have a bunch of illegal immigrant Israelis who have come to NYC of all places. to work as "movers".

So what? What's wrong with NYC and why is "movers" quoted? to make it look sinister? I actually used a Israeli-run moving company, in Bay Area, the year was 2003. Apparently it was a popular thing to do among Israelis. Connecting the dots in the way that you are connecting them requires lots of fantasy.

richwicks says

It wasn't a mistake. It was a false flag to provide an excuse that Lyndon B. Johnson needed to go to war with Egypt. The plan was to sink the ship, kill everybody on board, and then say Egypt did it.

I kinda expected the 9/11 conspiracy theory, and expected it to be good in a bizarre kind of way (it is). I didn't see it coming that USS Liberty would be such a close competitor.

You do understand that such a plan would hinge on leaving no survivors, right? Do you know the likelihood of leaving no survivors in such an attack with the number of people onboard in those conditions? Not sure how close to 0 it is, but certainly too low to be a part of an operation. All the while the failure would mean a disaster which would be remembered in ages, which was in fact the aftermath of the incident.

Only a complete imbecile would sign up for such a plan. That's how your theory paints both LBJ and Israelis.

Your really need to develop some healthy criticism for conspiracy theories, no matter how well they fit your worldview. Or else you have "tail wagging the dog" situation.

Like I said, the NSA Transcripts are publicly available and declassified.

Israel was fighting for it's existence and was busy with multiple Syrian and Egyptian Armored Divisions.

The only superpower intervention was the USSR threatening to nuke Israel unless it signed an immediate cease-fire once their client states got their asses kicked.

Israel-bashers 'conveniently' forget the 1000s of MiG-21s, -19s, Su-17s, 130mm Arty, Sa-2s, ZSU-23s, T-55 and T-64 tanks the Soviets gave to Egypt and Syria.

mostly reader says

You do understand that such a plan would hinge on leaving no survivors, right? Do you know the likelihood of leaving no survivors in such an attack with the number of people onboard in those conditions? Not sure how close to 0 it is, but certainly too low to be a part of an operation. All the while the failure would mean a disaster which would be remembered in ages, which was in fact the aftermath of the incident.

You'd also have to believe that :

A) The Israelis knew it was a US Intel Ship even though US ELINT intercepts from aircraft in the Eastern Med captured all the conversations between the IDF jets and their base.
B) The Israelis would sink an INTEL ship, designed to CAPTURE ELINT, before it could get a message out

https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/uss-liberty/recordings/

For context: An Israel Mobile Force near Al-Arish reported being shelled, and they suspected it was coming from a ship offshore. That is how it began.

The pilots and PT boats had no idea who the boat belonged to, other than it was so close to the warzone is was mere miles off the Sinai Penninsula. The instructions to the Patrol Boats was to immediately ascertain the nationality of the crew. So much for (((THEY KNEW!!!)))

mostly reader says

I'm not a mind reader to answer the "why" question, but Troll Factory is a fact. Titled "Internet Research Agency", located in a suburb of St. Petersburg (Olgino) in the past, not sure of it's whereabouts and status today. I'd say that they were quite effective.

Oh give me an example?

Concorde Management Systems showed up in DC and asked Mueller to proceed with the case. The result is he dropped it, because he just lied about the evidence. The DOJ knew he did as well, they just like he, didn't expect Concorde to show up.

mostly reader says

So what? What's wrong with NYC and why is "movers" quoted?

Oh please, the people working for Urban Moving Systems were intelligence assets - they weren't movers. "Hey, let's become illegals in NYC and work for a company that moves stuff!" - All of their employees were illegal Israeli immigrants. Once their cover was blown, they all moved back to Israel.

mostly reader says

I kinda expected the 9/11 conspiracy theory, and expected it to be good in a bizarre kind of way (it is). I didn't see it coming that USS Liberty would be such a close competitor.

Look, I'm not going to spend time trying to convince you that your government lies to you and does false flags on the population, and produces propaganda. If you don't know all that to be true, I think you're very naive. I don't care to convince you of a particular event being a false flag. I have the UAF simulation of WTC7 collapsing. It's runs on Abacus and SAP 2000 - I'm convinced it was a controlled demolition from that alone. NIST won't release their finite element simulation and their simulation isn't close to observation.

mostly reader says

You do understand that such a plan would hinge on leaving no survivors, right? Do you know the likelihood of leaving no survivors in such an attack with the number of people onboard in those conditions? Not sure how close to 0 it is, but certainly too low to be a part of an operation. All the while the failure would mean a disaster which would be remembered in ages, which was in fact the aftermath of the incident.

The planes were unmarked. Liberty was able to contact the 6th fleet for help, but they were denied assistance. Ideally everybody would have been killed, but it wasn't required.

The US government lies to its soldiers all the time. Find that weapons of mass destruction program in Iraq yet? Henry Kissinger once said that military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.

mostly reader says

Only a complete imbecile would sign up for such a plan. That's how your theory paints both LBJ and Israelis.

Are you kidding? The most blatant obvious false flags take place, and it's IMPOSSIBLE to convince people.

Remember Stephen Paddock the guy that supposedly shot a bunch of people from a hotel? You know what his "profession" was - he was a professional video game poker player. The job doesn't exist, video poker machines know every card you hold, and they can change the deck at will. They are programmed to make a certain amount of payout over time. So one man witnesses him, supposedly, ends up on a SINGLE INTERVIEW on Ellen DeGeneres, then he disappears.

You don't have to figure out what the ULTIMATE reason or plan was, or why you've been lied to - all you need to do is figure out you've been lied to.

So, "debunkers" are like "well, how did WTC1 and 2 fall - how were they wired up" etc - I don't fucking know. I just know WTC7 didn't come down because a building on the other side of the STREET hit it. I know that it's odd Larry Silverstein doubled his insurance and just recently purchased the lease. I know it's very strange that he wasn't in the buildings at the time, as he NORMALLY was. I find it odd that each airline used Israeli security to get the man on the planes. I find it odd that the "5 dancing Israeli" story first disappeared, then was denied to exist, and now the evidence is classified. How odd the Bush family was involved with the security of those buildings. I find it odd that Rumsfeld had changed policy 6 months before so only he could order a shootdown of a rogue plane, and he couldn't be found on 9/11. I remember the shorts on airline stocks, which were never cashed in - I actually checked the trading volumes back then - they were there I guess.

You get a ton of circumstantial evidence, you only need to know that you were lied to, you find out MUCH later why you were.

mostly reader says

Your really need to develop some healthy criticism for conspiracy theories, no matter how well they fit your worldview.

And this is where you're entirely wrong.

Do you know what difference it makes to me that 9/11 was done by our own intelligence agencies?

It doesn't. It's merely interesting. I don't get angry about it, I don't get upset about it, I don't do "truth videos", I just merely find it interesting.

Here's my world view, if you want to know - all governments are criminal syndicates. With that knowledge alone and I understand their motivation. Syria - remove Russian base, get in oil pipeline, better relations with Israel because Israel has wanted the Golan forever. Libya, prevent gold Dinar, Sarkozy was covering up corruption s ell, . Ukraine, oil, prevent nordstream II pipeline - new base, Europe wants ECC in there, US can give them loans as well. It's not really important WHY the US attacked these countries, what is important is that none of them were attacked for the stated reasons. This indicates US public support wouldn't exist if they revealed the true reasons for these interventions and wars.

You see, I am at the age where I simply don't care if somebody calls me a nut. I'm fucking tired of lying in polite company. I'm fucking tired of pretending my government is any different than any other government. I wonder if you realize the US just had a coup - that took a conspiracy to do. Well conspiracies happen ALL the time. People don't believe that the rich and powerful conspire for their own interests, like they don't believe mafia bosses would get together to screw some people over. They're just naive, and I'm tired of pretending to be this naive. Governments are neither good nor evil, they are sociopathic.

richwicks says

Oh give me an example?

Give you an example of what? I gave you the name (Internet Research Agency), city (Olgino), and agenda (to sow discord) Have your search produced nothing, or have you not done any?

richwicks says

Are you kidding? The most blatant obvious false flags take place, and it's IMPOSSIBLE to convince people.

That's because your explanation is anything but convincing. There's faith but there's no evidence. What's usually cited as evidence - accounts of survivors - is meaningless because those on the receiving end of the attack are in no better position to know it's true motives than a casual observer.

Also, you refuse to see gaps in that reasoning. If USS Liberty were a false flag operation (it wasn't), it would've been a very poorly thought out one.

I'll try to make a dent, possibly for the last time before I give up. If it were false flag, why did it not work out? Number of casualties seems consistent with the type of strike, so it should've been part of the plan for anyone who's not a complete moron. What went wrong for LBJ, and what were the odds of it going wrong?

Didn't LBJ mostly continue JFKs policies? What were the main differences?

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Oh give me an example?

Give you an example of what? I gave you the name (Internet Research Agency), city (Olgino), and agenda (to sow discord) Have your search produced nothing, or have you not done any?

Give me an example of how the "Internet Research Agency" has "sowed discord" in American society? What did they do? Did they encourage Burn Loot and Murder to burn down cities and call the people that protested this "white supremacists"? Did they inject unrelenting propaganda in our our "news"?

Our enemy is domestic. How many ways can you list that our GOVERNMENT has "sowed discord"? That's what identity politics is all about. Diversity is strength - for the government.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Are you kidding? The most blatant obvious false flags take place, and it's IMPOSSIBLE to convince people.

That's because your explanation is anything but convincing. There's faith but there's no evidence.

It's pretty simple, if there's an accident or we are genuinely attacked, all information about it is provided to the public as much as possible to demonize the enemy.

mostly reader says

What's usually cited as evidence - accounts of survivors - is meaningless because those on the receiving end of the attack are in no better position to know it's true motives than a casual observer.

And this is why the survivors of the USS Liberty just want a hearing in front of Congress to find out what happened but they are denied it. That's all they want. Why is it denied?

mostly reader says

Also, you refuse to see gaps in that reasoning. If USS Liberty were a false flag operation (it wasn't), it would've been a very poorly thought out one.

Was the Gulf of Tonkin Incident a well thought out false flag? Didn't have to be, but it did keep the US in Vietnam for a bunch of years.

They think the public is stupid, and they're almost right. The the public isn't stupid, they are gullible and lazy. A false flag attack is like The Big Lie - "Our government wouldn't lie about such a thing to start a war!! Our government always says they do everything they can to avoid war, and war is just a last resort. They wouldn't be so brazen as to deceive me like that".

Yes they would and thousands of people who know the truth will stay silent for "national security reasons".

Anyhow that attempts to explain how this works, or give examples of it in the past, even concrete ones, is demonized and derided. It doesn't really matter what you believe in the end, but if everybody is gullible and naive, it gives the government even more room to be more evil and more destructive.

NoCoupForYou says

The pilots and PT boats had no idea who the boat belonged to, other than it was so close to the warzone is was mere miles off the Sinai Penninsula. The instructions to the Patrol Boats was to immediately ascertain the nationality of the crew. So much for (((THEY KNEW!!!)))

What makes you think everybody involved with a conspiracy has to know they are part of a conspiracy?

Hey, if you were to be making a television that was capable of spying on the purchaser, would you alert the entire engineering team this was a feature? If you wanted to make a machine capable of ballot fraud, would the entire company be alerted to this as a feature on the machine?

I literally slapped my head when I read what you wrote. This are military men, they follow orders, and if they don't, there are severe repercussions. I don't give a FUCK what some redacted report 60 years later says. Why should I? This is just the cleanup operation.

The question remains, why aren't the people who were involved able to talk openly in a congressional session? It really doesn't matter now, all the people that would have been involved with this incident if it was a false flag are gone. They will never know for certain, but that's the point of congressional testimony. Congressman have access to classified information and direct access to intelligence officers. They're all dead or retired now.

They just wanted to be heard, and even THAT won't be fucking allowed. Can't embarrass Israel.

richwicks says

Give me an example of how the "Internet Research Agency" has "sowed discord" in American society? What did they do? Did they encourage Burn Loot and Murder to burn down cities and call the people that protested this "white supremacists"? Did they inject unrelenting propaganda in our our "news"?

Their typical "casual" strategy was to take radical points of view, often opposing, and stir shit in online space. Sometimes there would be a specific task at hand and it would shift away from that "casual" MO. For example, the MH-17 incident required immediate online domination in order to steer away public opinion, which was attempted by throwing a lot of shitty versions on the fan and an army of trolls demanding that each one is considered. "Air controller Carlos", "They targeted Putin", "There was a bomb aboard", "It was shot down by Ukrainian fighter", "The pilot confessed", "They filled the plane with dead bodies", etc, etc, etc. Human attention span is not that great, it can only consume that much, which is why "domination by presence" works even if the presence is full of shit.
But, again, the "casual" strategy was to take radical points of view and stir shit. Pro BLM, pro white supremacists, pro antifa, pro whoever. Then swap the position to the opposite and continue triggering, basically contribute to breaking down the society. No idea if Russia played a part in recent unrests, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was out there in some capacity (most likely there are multiple players involved, possibly both external and internal)

If you think that "false flag" is the only reason to not have Congressional hearing, your imagination is quite unbalanced. It's wild on one end, and poor on the other. I can think of multiple embarrassing issues that such hearing would've uncovered (in communication protocols, in authority overreach, in defense mechanisms) which is why it may have been avoided. You know what it most likely would not have uncovered? A false flag, if there were such, because uncovering that would almost require voluntary confession (yeah, right)

You didn't answer my one key question about USS Liberty: If it were false flag, why did it not work out as such? (that there were survivors is not a reasonable answer because survivors should've be expected in planning of the operation)

mostly reader says

Give me an example of how the "Internet Research Agency" has "sowed discord" in American society? What did they do? Did they encourage Burn Loot and Murder to burn down cities and call the people that protested this "white supremacists"? Did they inject unrelenting propaganda in our our "news"?

Their typical "casual" strategy was to take radical points of view, often opposing, and stir shit in online space. Sometimes there would be a specific task at hand and it would shift away from that "casual" MO. For example, the MH-17 incident required immediate online domination in order to stir away public opinion, which was attempted by throwing a lot of shitty versions on the fan and an army of trolls demanding that each one is considered. "Air controller Carlos", "They targeted Putin", "There was a bomb aboard", "It was shot down by Ukrainian fighter", "The pilot confessed", "They filled the plane with dead bodies", etc, etc, etc. Human attention span is not that g...

But you can't show me any concrete examples of this.

Remember this story?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/18/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-audio-proves-rebels-shot-boeing_n_5598469.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABb7g12_rd1_x3olGps9V9J49oC6h49MTWVHxfF8pJOOkAEIecwVARE1eIbpptE57_QfrTdaCSpcB6N5GXKR0K5uhREBhspgOHl4d1bm5-BuaJxIeJCeh8xHIBP6qa44OP-R2kApOdNeEETTuHPBg_4rrO1lLqXDkE7eMom7GHQF

Well the audio they released was analyzed by some jerks on the net, and I downloaded it as well. It's spliced together of two audio clips, one is mono, the other is stereo.

And that's when I ignored it.

Given that I know, for an absolute fact, that the United States overthrew Ukraine, I don't trust anything from my fucking lying government anymore.

Or the UK one. The Skipral story is hilarious. There were 3 victims of that "Novichock" attack - all their pets died - they were sealed in the house for 3 weeks. The cat survived it, but was euthanized in the end. The two gerbils died of lack of food and water. How's that for a nerve agent that a tiny amount can kill a city block? If I wanted to kill them, I'd put Hydrogen Florine on the door knob. That would kill them slowly of mercury poisoning and it wouldn't be traceable, but it would have been certainly noticed as an intentional murder. Super dangerous to handle that stuff. I could put a drop on your hand, and you're dead 3 months later. Organic mercury is scary.

Anyhow, our government really really wants to restart the Cold War because HOLY FUCK that was lucrative for the "defense" industry. The MIC hated that the USSR collapsed and we were about to have a "peace dividend" after 40 years of that bullshit. Good thing the "war on terror" showed up conveniently. It's all just about fucking money and power.

mostly reader says

If you think that "false flag" is the only reason to not have Congressional hearing, your imagination is quite unbalanced. It's wild on one end, and poor on the other.

Oh my god, I just don't give a goddamned what your opinion is.

mostly reader says

You didn't answer my one key question about USS Liberty: If it were false flag, why did it not work out as such?

Same reason the Lavon affair didn't work - they got caught. Duh.

richwicks says

But you can't show me any concrete examples of this.

What kind of concrete example do you expect? A post from account which has been deleted a long time ago? Accumulation of posts from different accounts, you want me to track them down? Those in which people "forget" their prior identities, and first post as a male and then as a female?

I personally have seen enough to confirm what I wrote above with high confidence. This is a lot more than what you offer in support of your theories.

richwicks says

Same reason the Lavon affair didn't work - they got caught. Duh.

Ok, now it looks like you are trolling. Note that you are doing it to a person who patiently works with you through your conspiracy theory, while others just call you a nut.
How did they get caught? by not sinking the ship, by leaving survivors, by doing or not doing what?

mostly reader says

mostly reader says

Same reason the Lavon affair didn't work - they got caught. Duh.

Ok, now it looks like you are trolling. Note that you are doing it to a person who patiently works with you through your conspiracy theory,

The people who were there, bombed, and survived, THEY believe it was a false flag attack. Who am I to disagree? You can argue it with them.

I've listed multiple conspiracies that were called "conspiracy theories". Operation PBSuccess, Operation Ajax, Project MKUltra, The Tuskegee Trails, Operation Northwoods (aborted), Gulf of Tonkin Incident, the Lavon Affair ALL of these happened and then the USS Liberty. These are done by the intelligence agencies more often than not.

I have to spend post after post after post after post after post explaining why the USS Liberty, in particular, was a false flag. Do you think I give a shit about a PARTICULAR false flag or a PARTICULAR conspiracy that is considered a "conspiracy theory"?

No, I don't. I don't care.

Say I'm wrong on this - so what?

We just had a coup, and what's difficult is getting people to understand conspiracies happen. They are so naive and gullible that even when a conspiracy happens RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM, they don't have the fucking balls to not believe the media. They are slaves to authority, have no ability to think for themselves, and they are the REAL ones giving up this nation. It's not a couple of people that sold this nation into 70 years of slavery which may begin in 2 months, it's people like you.

You are hung up on this very specific, who gives a shit, issue while a coup of the United States is taking place.

Good for the Mossad though murdering more Iranian nuclear scientists while they have a clandestine "secret" nuclear weapons program that unlike Iran, doesn't have IAEA inspections, and Israel won't sign the NNPT like nearly ever fucking other country in the world does - including the United States. Just disgusted with their hypocrisy.

richwicks says

The people who were there, bombed, and survived, THEY believe it was a false flag attack. Who am I to disagree? You can argue it with them.

Those people are in better position than others to give details of the attack. They are NOT in better position than casual observer to offer motivation for the attack, and it's the motivation that we discuss. On the contrary. Getting bombed sucks, especially by an ally, and may lead to all kinds of biases.

richwicks says

Say I'm wrong on this - so what?

richwicks says

You are hung up on this very specific, who gives a shit

I can only discuss one item at a time, and time is sparse. I did the one which you used to start this enlightening conversation. I'm not going to check your entire laundry list, quantity is not quality.

It doesn't mean I disagree with everything that you post, but I would suggest that you are more critical of your data.

Dixi.

mostly reader says

It doesn't mean I disagree with everything that you post, but I would suggest that you are more critical of your data.

The USS Liberty is not vitally important. It is important to know governments engage in conspiracies. I listed the USS Liberty as just one example. If you want PROVEN examples, there's the Lavon Affair, there's the fact Lehi murdered Count Bernadotte then their leader (they were a triumvirate) Yitzhak Shamir became PM, or the bombing of the King David Hotel, bombed by Irgun where one of it's leader Menachem Begin ordered the attack.

See? The British don't care if Israelis murder their men - do they? They had no problem with two terrorists becoming PM of Israel even when their own military were attacked. Think the US does?

Kissinger said military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy - and he wasn't kidding. That's not how just Kissinger thinks of military men, that's how the entire government thinks of us and military men. We're all cannon fodder.