patrick.net

ThreeBays says

What damage did mask requirements in public spaces cause?

Criminals can't be identified, caught and prosecuted, for instance.

ThreeBays says

What damage did mask requirements in public spaces cause?

LITTER for one.

plus all the reasons Patrick listed in the other thread.

ThreeBays says

What damage did mask requirements in public spaces cause?

You're asking the wrong question. What positive did/does mask mandates accomplish? Cases are through the roof since implement, so clearly stopping the spread wasn't the goal. What is the one positive of mask mandates?

ThreeBays says

What damage did mask requirements in public spaces cause?

Why do you hate freedom?

ThreeBays says

WookieMan says

ThreeBays says

What damage did mask requirements in public spaces cause?

You're asking the wrong question. What positive did/does mask mandates accomplish? Cases are through the roof since implement, so clearly stopping the spread wasn't the goal. What is the one positive of mask mandates?

Show me how you can say that. Masks requirements were put in place around the same time as other measures were eased like opening restaurants, malls, gyms, and bars.

So the mask mandates didn't work? I'm not sure your point. Just because things reopened doesn't mean they went back to 100% capacity (if they even reopened). Remember we were open during the early parts of this "pandemic" WITHOUT masks. Sporting events, mass gatherings, concerts, etc. We've exceeded those times, still mostly shut down WITH masks. There's not much to discuss here until you realize that. Physical touch is the main spreader of this and touching your face because of a mask is at minimum 10% more likely to get you sick from Covid than not wearing a mask.

If the masks worked, why do we still need them?
If the masks didn't work, why do we still need them?

Anyway, they don't work at all. Except to spread fear. They are very good at spreading fear, a disease far worse than that feeble virus.

The goal is to spread fear.

When the public is afraid, they let the government violate their rights in ways that are otherwise inconceivable.

ThreeBays says

What damage did mask requirements in public spaces cause?

1. Global warming and plastic waste. If a few drink straws would have killed the planet, what about littering with masks made with non-biodegradable plastics?
2. Burden on people that has no scientific justification.

ThreeBays says

Show me how you can say that. Masks requirements were put in place around the same time as other measures were eased like opening restaurants, malls, gyms, and bars.

please share a reference to a peer-reviewed study that shows cloth masks working.

Rb6d says

ThreeBays says

What damage did mask requirements in public spaces cause?

1. Global warming and plastic waste. If a few drink straws would have killed the planet, what about littering with masks made with non-biodegradable plastics?
2. Burden on people that has no scientific justification.

3. Deliberate mass fear for no scientific reason. This is an enormous harm.

ThreeBays says

Patrick says

If the masks worked, why do we still need them?

Do you expect anyone to take logic like that seriously?

You did. You punted and asked a question instead of giving an answer.

I don't think you understand what he's saying either. IF masks and social distancing worked, this would be over. That was the bill of goods we were sold. 15 days to stop the spread. Now Biden is talking 100 days after we've already been "stopping the spread" for 320 days roughly. All this as cases surge as most have followed mask and distancing guidelines. The guidelines are not working. They don't work. There is no vaccine. What is being done isn't working. Blame whoever you want. The solutions thrown out don't work. Plain and simple.

We have a new virus. Like always, you are free to get a poke in the arm with a cocktail of shit that may or may not work that season depending on what strain is prevalent. This is where we're at. You may get sick for a couple days. To keep things closed is insanity. The evidence shows our actions have made the virus worse. OR that it was purposefully managed the way it was for other reasons. We'll likely never get to know. Or it's just bad science, which is very common. The data is clear that our health experts either didn't want to treat this for what it was or they simply are too stupid. Not sure there's any other explanation at this point.

WookieMan says

The data is clear that our health experts either didn't want to treat this for what it was or they simply are too stupid. Not sure there's any other explanation at this point.

Ignorance, stupidity, or malevolence?

Any other choices?

Onvacation says

Ignorance, stupidity, or malevolence?

how 'bout all three?

ThreeBays says

Do you expect anyone to take logic like that seriously?

This is entirely logical. If the masks worked, then there would be no surge of cases. We've have two since mandatory masks.

The trendline for Sweden is comparable to all other Western Countries, where the restrictions were much less and targeted, rather than in all public places.
https://www.covid19insweden.com/en/

Where is the flu season?

States must immediately pass laws to make sure this doesn't happen again, restricting the power of the Governor to 14-30 days beyond which he must have explicit legislature extension for every 30 days beyond, AND must show evidence that mask wearing and closures had an impact (positive proof, not the "well if we didn't it would be much worse", which is not proof).

NoCoupForYou says

This is entirely logical. If the masks worked, then there would be no surge of cases. We've have two since mandatory masks.

You're going to get the argument that we opened back up and masks help it not spike as high with no evidence and the fact that we're not remotely open even in the most conservative of places.

Covid got here in January 2020 (as far was we know), likely earlier. Lockdowns (without masks) didn't even start until late March and early April 2020. During this time Covid was free to spread during sporting events, concerts, large gatherings, etc. NBA players were getting Covid as fans sat in the stands completely unmasked. They were the first league to shut down. Shit still continued for weeks after though. If an NBA player got Covid, it was already everywhere and spreading.

Our numbers now dwarf those from the early days. We've stopped all mass gatherings. Summer happened and people got outside. Then in June(ish) we decide masks are now good. WTF has happened since then? Numbers don't lie. I still can't go see my favorite band or sports team. In many locations I can't even sit in a coffee shop anymore or have a beer at the bar. Social distancing and masks don't do anything. Just look. It's obvious if you're not blind.

What the fuck does "case" mean anyway?

We have never used an inaccurate test to see how many colds we have before. Why now?

In the typical year I have minor symptoms of colds or flu (whatever) 3 or 4 times. Usually goes nowhere. A couple of years ago I got a devastating flu. Took me out completely for three days and several more to completely recover. If I was old and sick it would have killed me.

We can't continue the shut down to protect the old and sick. It's killing the young and heathy.

Onvacation says

What the fuck does "case" mean anyway?

We have never used an inaccurate test to see how many colds we have before. Why now?

In the typical year I have minor symptoms of colds or flu (whatever) 3 or 4 times. Usually goes nowhere. A couple of years ago I got a devastating flu. Took me out completely for three days and several more to completely recover. If I was old and sick it would have killed me.

We can't continue the shut down to protect the old and sick. It's killing the young and heathy.

The definition of "case" has a moving set of goal posts. The first was "any positive test" now (after Biden installed) the WHO says two different positives, PLUS clinical signs of infection. So the reported case rate will decrease exponentially. Unless the NEW DEADLY STRAINS gain media traction. Then it's back to step 1 - maybe forever.

ThreeBays says

Many people started wearing masks in public as early as march

Where? This simply is not true. 2-4% is a rounding error and that's the max that was wearing masks in March. We were mask free and still doing normal things in March. This is undeniable. Sports leagues and mass gatherings were occurring almost all month. You still negate our first "known" case was in January. It was here before then and that's pretty much agreed upon. Covid spread for a full 3 months with the population not shut down and unmasked at MINIMUM. Likely longer.

ThreeBays says

Also it's clearly not been 100% compliant, with lots of people at rallies and such without masks.

The more compliant and more mandates go into place, the higher cases go. Again, you can't refute this. The chart above says you're wrong.

ThreeBays says

The same goes for social distancing. You mentioned that in your circle most people got sick from hugging and touching others... that's just as expected.

Not what I said at all. I can have a conversation without a mask for 10 minutes to an hour and not get Covid 3' away from another person. Just as I would before covid. Physical contact is the issue. Masks exponentially increase this physical contact with body parts that soak up a virus, nose and mouth with mask adjustments. Again, indisputable.

You barking up the wrong tree man. I've traveled to 2 US territories (PR and USVI) and Mexico. I've been to Wisconsin, Utah, Nevada, Indiana, Tennessee, Kentucky, Maryland and Florida. I've been on trains, buses, planes, casinos, gas stations, public pools, hotels, vacation rentals, and car ferries. 7 different airports and 13 different flights. Only the Mexico trip was without kids. Covid is not dangerous. It's not as contagious as the media leads you to believe. I'm the only one in the family that has gotten sick since this "pandemic" and tested negative. I likely had the regular old flu. It sucked. Never even once thought of going to a doctor though if it was a false negative (likely was).

Between the wife and I we have a network of well over 500 close friends. You don't have to believe it, I don't care. But that's who would show up to our wedding today if we did it over. Anecdotal data is valid. I have more than most which is why I'm an ass hole on this topic. Give me something, even anecdotal from your end. I don't make shit up. What's the point? You know I'm right.

WookieMan says

Where?

Cali.

FuckCCP89 says

WookieMan says

Where?

Cali.

As early as March? That shit was NOT happening anywhere in the midwest in March or April. May is when a few people started doing it here. Maybe 10%. June is when mandates started kicking in.

WookieMan says

Cali.

As early as March?

You better believe it. People dressed in full chemical warfare outfits roaming grocery store isles. Mostly Asians (I'd say exclusively Asians but it was really hard to tell under all that shit).

Bunch of progressives started wearing masks so they did not have to talk about their candidate Biden/Harris and all of their unknown policies and well known flaws.

It's obvious to even the most brainwashed progressive that the installment of Biden caused the lockdowns to end around America. It's obvious to most thinking people that this election was stolen by an avalanche of fraudulent mail in ballots caused by the institution of the lockdowns.

Many of these same brainwashed progressives are OK with a fraudulent election because Trump.

Hate can be vicious.

Went to the gun range for another firearms training session for my 11 year old boy. Nobody was wearing masks. Standing in line again to get a card for the trap shooting, saw a group of Asian guys come up and get in line... wearing masks! One guy had two masks!
Didn’t say anything, but later I saw the same guys walking away and none of them were wearing the masks.
Peer pressure is still good for something!

ThreeBays says

Already discussed as bullshit.

No it wasn't. The 2nd lowest time during this pandemic was when we were packed into concerts, hockey/basketball games, bars, restaurants, etc. as there we zero mitigation factors outside of slowing travel from China. That was January to April. Covid was here before January. No masks, no distancing, no nothing. There were more people infected before the guy in Washington state as well, it was just the flu back then.

The lowest time while this pandemic has been going on was August and September because people got out of their fucking house. Had nothing to do with masks. Things were open this past summer. No spike. Places like Georgia and S. Dakota were open the whole time or since May. Tennessee was open in May, I went boating and no one was wearing a masks at bars or restaurants. Even now no one wears a mask in my town and the bars restaurants only shut down for a month.

Our orders to stay home and wear a mask everywhere are clearly not a net positive to the situation at all. It's not bullshit. It's real. The problem is when you believe you should be locked down, you do it. You don't go out and experience what is actually going on in other places. So your source of information is media or social media. Us travelers don't post that stuff because we'll be shamed by people like you. Your reality is not reality. Therefore people are free to just make shit up and you'll eat it up. Get out and explore and you'll realize the reality you're being fed is the bullshit here. Case in point every mayor and politician getting caught going out mask free. Why do you think that is? Just think.