patrick.net

How does it work when 2 children inherit the same home? I would imagine they each get 50% stakes. And, when the home is sold, the cap gains would be split 50% between them, on their own tax returns.

Could one of the children sell their stake to the other, without the entire home being sold? I'd bet they can, the question is whether the one receiving the money would need to file cap gains in that tax year.

If selling a stake would create a cap gains tax event in that tax yr, then I would imagine you could just sell a stake in the house to someone, even if there's no inheritance involved. That would let you log part of your cap gains in different years.

The possibility of selling a stake in a business sounds likely to exist, but a residential home may be different. If needed, maybe the home could be put into an llc or something, and rented, making it a "business" so you can sell a stake in it.

Hircus says

But let’s say you took out a reverse mortgage on that same house and currently owe $700,000. Upon the sale of your home, you would have $50,000 of the reverse mortgage forgiven. Besides the $250,000 gain from home appreciation, you also have $50,000 in “gains” from loan forgiveness for a total of $300,000 in capital gains. Only $250,000 of that would be excluded, meaning you’ll owe capital gains taxes on the remaining $50,000, even though you walk away from the sale with no money in your pocket.

Who said anything about selling? Ride it to the ground, baby. Whoever dies with most debt - wins.

clambo says

Anecdote herewith:
My friend told me about a guy in San Diego who makes a lot of money.

He is single, no kids.

He established residency in Texas, bought a condo or something there.

He didn’t sell his San Diego house; he donated it to his college.

He arranged that he has exclusive use of the house during his lifetime. The university pays all bills and taxes related to the house.

He lost the equity in the house, but he got a huge tax deduction and saves money in California taxes on his income and capital gains.

If you can, always have a 2nd home in a tax advantaged place. We're going to be looking in Puerto Rico and St. Thomas/John this October. Currently getting my research started on the USVI and PR taxes. I know PR is a super tax advantaged place.

IRS has little way to prove that it's not your primary residence even if you only spend a week in the tax advantaged place. Just have to be smart with your paper trail ;) Not tax advice.

clambo says

A house is nice to have, but the government uses the lack of liquidity and mobility of house owners to tax them.

This is true of business double. When you have a business, you have a big red bullseye on your back for every purulent bureaucrat looking for shekels, and every regulator looking for scalps, Fed, state, county and city. Also, in the urban areas, employees and their 'rights' make them bands of gypsy predators more than workers, looking for lawsuits, or just working long enough to exploit workman's comp, disability or unemployment.

WookieMan says

IRS has little way to prove that it's not your primary residence even if you only spend a week in the tax advantaged place. Just have to be smart with your paper trail ;) Not tax advice.

I read this recently regarding having a home in 2 states, one of them CA, but avoiding CA residency for tax purposes.
https://www.palmspringstaxandtrustlawyers.com/the-part-time-resident-tax-trap/

It sounds like a nightmare.

Maybe that's just CA tho.

Hircus says

Maybe that's just CA tho.

PR is unique I guess. Don't want to talk out my ass before fully researching. You're not taxed federally the same as a state though and I believe local taxes are low in PR. I've only got 10 hours in PR in October and 5 days in USVI. I don't think USVI has many, if any tax advantages though and is expensive. St. John is just fucking awesome though. St. Croix is supposedly great, but flights in and out are almost double.

WookieMan says

St. Croix is supposedly great, but flights in and out are almost double.

Be like Greta - sail everywhere. =))

HunterTits says

I believe Biden also wants to re-introduce the 100% write off of SALT from one's federal tax bill. It was Trump that reduced that write-off to just $10k, remember? Bluetard politicians are still screaming because high earners fled en masse after that. And their entire funding model in those states rely on the rich. Esp California & NY.

Multiple bluetard coworkers had little TDS outbreaks over that change. It was fun twisting it back on them and guilt tripping their lib brains by making them realize that its a tax break which mostly benefits the rich / affluent / urban, and that the majority of americans benefit little, if at all from it. A tax policy that not only contributes to wealth inequality, but is actually designed as such. I think a typical married couple needs to buy around 600-700k in actual loan, (after down payments), for rhe typical 4% interest to be enough to make it worth deducting over the std deduction. And the median home was 250-300k back then (although, it jumped to 320k this yr). Even then, since mortgages are amortized, the amount of interest per mo falls as time goes on, making you pay less in yearly interest each progressive yr, diminishing your ability to deduct.

Some accepted it and realized it was true. The pure gold was the one who responded by saying "no, my realtor told me I would save tons on my condo".

lol @ "my realtor said"...

Hircus says

lol @ "my realtor said"...

Yes, one wonders how many of those homeless people took the advice of Realtors.

WookieMan says

St. John is just fucking awesome though.

What's good about it? I haven't heard much about the usvi.

Eric Holder says

WookieMan says

St. Croix is supposedly great, but flights in and out are almost double.

Be like Greta - sail everywhere. =))

I would fuck Elena if I could tape her mouth and she cut her bangs. I still don't get as a climate change proxy Greta would sail the Atlantic on a $1M Cat. LaVagabond subscribers have stalled ever since. Go woke, go broke.

HunterTits says

Not really. They have high income and other tax rates in order to suck up whatever savings for no federal income taxes you might have had.

I know. I have to pay IL my share either way. PR can't tax my IL income. Federally, as far as I understand it's damn near nothing. I pay $30-40k/yr on average to Federal.

I'll take $10-20k back tax free and claim PR as my primary. Again, I need to look into it more. But why not have a vacation rental in PR, that you get to use and then pay less in taxes. We're talking maybe $100k federal taxes over a decade and potentially vacation home rental income and debt pay down of an asset. We're all running from taxes, seems like a decent option.

Hircus says

WookieMan says

St. John is just fucking awesome though.

What's good about it? I haven't heard much about the usvi.

Amazing beaches and water. Amazing boating opportunities. I'm sure places like Maldives or SE Asia could beat it, but for proximity and no passport hassle, cheap flights, it's some of the best beaches on the planet. There's a reason a Rockefeller once owned damn near the entire island of St. John.

I still contend that Panhandle, FL areas have the best sand I've ever experienced. They don't stay as warm in the winter, so they're less popular and pumped by people.

Misc says

There is no escape from California.

GOOD. Let 'em stay there and not poison our Great State of Texas.

Rb6d says

GOOD. Let 'em stay there and not poison our Great State of Texas.

I think the Big Tech infiltration may be more dangerous than the random Libby fleas.

Hircus says

Multiple bluetard coworkers had little TDS outbreaks over that change. It was fun twisting it back on them and guilt tripping their lib brains by making them realize that its a tax break which mostly benefits the rich / affluent / urban, and that the majority of americans benefit little, if at all from it.

It's like a land mine in the tax code that Trump buried for Dems to keep stepping on...
Seventeen New York state Democratic lawmakers on Tuesday said they will not support proposed tax increases to pay for President Joe Biden’s infrastructure plan unless it also rolls back a 2017 tax change that hurt high earners in some states.
The group urged the full repeal of the provision, which limited to $10,000 the state and local taxes that households itemizing deductions could write off their federal returns...
Leading Democrats in Congress are sympathetic to the idea of repealing the SALT cap, which would benefit primarily people making over $100,000 a year in high-tax states like New York and California.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, of California, has expressed sympathy for repeal, while Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, of New York, has co-sponsored legislation to eliminate the cap.

Location is Hwy 1 North Palm Beach
The license plate holder indicates "Alumni UC Berkeley"

I wonder if he's going back to California.

EBGuy says

It's like a land mine in the tax code that Trump buried for Dems to keep stepping on...
Seventeen New York state Democratic lawmakers on Tuesday said they will not support proposed tax increases to pay for President Joe Biden’s infrastructure plan unless it also rolls back a 2017 tax change that hurt high earners in some states.
The group urged the full repeal of the provision, which limited to $10,000 the state and local taxes that households itemizing deductions could write off their federal returns...
Leading Democrats in Congress are sympathetic to the idea of repealing the SALT cap, which would benefit primarily people making over $100,000 a year in high-tax states like New York and California.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, of California, has expressed sympathy for repeal, while Senate Majority Leader Chuck...

Can they do it w/o filibuster-proof majority?

Ceffer says

I think the Big Tech infiltration may be more dangerous than the random Libby fleas.

agreed, although what I see is that Big Tech moves to Austin, drags tens of thousands if not more libbies with them, and result is California East with crappy climate.

WookieMan says

I still contend that Panhandle, FL areas have the best sand I've ever experienced. They don't stay as warm in the winter, so they're less popular and pumped by people.

How does it compare to Atlantic City sand?

Booger says

How does it compare to Atlantic City sand?

Only been once. Didn't like that either. I have no bias coming from the midwest. Lake Michigan sand blows, although the actual Indiana/Michigan Dunes are kind of fun. Sand still sucks though.

Booger says

WookieMan says

I still contend that Panhandle, FL areas have the best sand I've ever experienced. They don't stay as warm in the winter, so they're less popular and pumped by people.

How does it compare to Atlantic City sand?

I believe Atlantic City sand and Florida panhandle sand are completely different. Atlantic city is that tannish silica sand while Florida Panhandle is that white carbonate sand from granulated sea shells.

HeadSet says

Booger says

WookieMan says

I still contend that Panhandle, FL areas have the best sand I've ever experienced. They don't stay as warm in the winter, so they're less popular and pumped by people.

How does it compare to Atlantic City sand?

I believe Atlantic City sand and Florida panhandle sand are completely different. Atlantic city is that tannish silica sand while Florida Panhandle is that white carbonate sand from granulated sea shells.

Yup. Only issue I have with Panhandle is you gotta have good sunglasses due to the reflective nature of the sand. It's amazing on the feet and looks kick ass.

The surf on the Gulf is strange though. So water activities aren't the best and shoreline can change day by day in rather dramatic fashion. Calm days though it looks better than the best beaches in the Caribbean. No reefs, but emerald blue water matched up with pure white sand.

WookieMan says

I'll take $10-20k back tax free and claim PR as my primary. Again, I need to look into it more. But why not have a vacation rental in PR, that you get to use and then pay less in taxes. We're talking maybe $100k federal taxes over a decade and potentially vacation home rental income and debt pay down of an asset. We're all running from taxes, seems like a decent option.

Nah, you probably won't but I like the way you think.

I have a vacay rental in Maui and I typically gross about 78K a year and have hella write-offs. This year will be >100K. In order to get those write-offs and tax breaks I can't (admit) stay in it for something like more than 10 days a year. It would be difficult for me to call some place I stay in for 10 days a year my residence.

So only if you decide you want to pay taxes on the gross I guess, perhaps that's lots less than your other income sources.

Then there is what happens if you get audited? I've been waiting nearly 2 months waiting for my Fed refund and started to trip that I might be getting audited. Checked online and it's already approved they are just snails mailing the check this year. No, I don't want to give the IRS access to wire to my bank account.

just_passing_through says

Then there is what happens if you get audited?

Biden is spending 80B hiring more irs agents.

just_passing_through says

I have a vacay rental in Maui and I typically gross about 78K a year and have hella write-offs. This year will be >100K. In order to get those write-offs and tax breaks I can't (admit) stay in it for something like more than 10 days a year. It would be difficult for me to call some place I stay in for 10 days a year my residence.

I hear what you're saying. I wouldn't rent it out enough to trigger an audit. It wouldn't be about the rental income outside of paying the mortgage down and not coming out of pocket.

If you rent it out 182 days or less, the IRS is going to have a hard time proving it's not your primary residence. 90-100 days would likely cover your nut on the mortgage down there and the IRS for sure has no legs to stand on then.

I need to look into what the federal tax savings is. So as I've said in other comments, I'm talking out my ass a bit. But I do know it's a real thing to save on Fed taxes "living" in PR. High income earners especially.

All that aside, we'll still "winter" down in the Caribbean and if we can get something now and start paying it off before retirement, I'm game.

just_passing_through says

No, I don't want to give the IRS access to wire to my bank account.

Why not? I have an AmEx savings account for exactly that purpose. It sits empty most of the year but when I need to pay to or receive money from the gubmint - I transfer the funds from or to my 'real' bank accounts.

Hircus says

WookieMan says

St. John is just fucking awesome though.

What's good about it? I haven't heard much about the usvi.

Here is one downside to USVI:

The 10 countries with the highest homicide rates:
1-El Salvador (82.84 per 100k people)
2-Honduras (56.52 per 100k people)
3-Venezuela (56.33 per 100k people)
4-United States Virgin Islands (49.26 per 100k people)

Robert Sproul says

Hircus says

WookieMan says

St. John is just fucking awesome though.

What's good about it? I haven't heard much about the usvi.

Here is one downside to USVI:

The 10 countries with the highest homicide rates:
1-El Salvador (82.84 per 100k people)
2-Honduras (56.52 per 100k people)
3-Venezuela (56.33 per 100k people)
4-United States Virgin Islands (49.26 per 100k people)

Holy fuck!

It's not whether a lot of people are murdered. It's whether the right people are murdered.

FuckCCP89 says

Why not? I have an AmEx savings account for exactly that purpose. It sits empty most of the year but when I need to pay to or receive money from the gubmint - I transfer the funds from or to my 'real' bank accounts.

Interesting idea!

I guess in my case it's more of a protest. I'm fooling myself that they can't get in there any time they want for maybe reasons as simple as a post on patnet.

Case in point: All of the tea party people who were attacked by a weaponized IRS during the Obummer years.

WookieMan says

I need to look into what the federal tax savings is. So as I've said in other comments, I'm talking out my ass a bit. But I do know it's a real thing to save on Fed taxes "living" in PR. High income earners especially.

For people who truly live there yes. Hey if you can pull it off I think that's awesome! I'm too chicken to try something like that. Instead I tend to overestimate my taxes if there is any confusion (by single digits). Might be why my tax refund is delayed. I noticed they are paying me back $1.26 more than I asked for / calculated haha.

I've been watching some Nomad Capitalist vids lately. What the guy offers is tempting. I'm not that rich yet though.

Robert Sproul says

The 10 countries with the highest homicide rates:
1-El Salvador (82.84 per 100k people)
2-Honduras (56.52 per 100k people)
3-Venezuela (56.33 per 100k people)
4-United States Virgin Islands (49.26 per 100k people)

Never have felt unsafe there. White privilege/tourist maybe? I don't know. 93 people have been killed in Englewood, Chicago year to date. I used to work in that neighborhood occasionally and a bunch of other ghettos in Chicago. Unless my math is wrong, Englewood is about 306 per 100k people (30k population). Either way that's 4 months. Close to 300 people will be killed there this year, probably more as summer hasn't hit yet.

Here's the total for 2020 for all of USVI: http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/news/2020-homicides/article_22a93566-6623-5a6e-b0eb-f18fb8275a22.html

In 2020, the Virgin Islands recorded 49 homicides, including 27 on St. Croix, 20 on St. Thomas and two on St. John. Two of the homicides were vehicular in nature.

That's really a huge nothing burger. And I'd guess most of it is domestic violence as well. Just seems high per capita, which it obviously is, but it's no Englewood and I've gone there hundreds of times. Puerto Rico is the main target as Chicago will always have non-stops to the island. St. Thomas/John would be nicer though as a beach lover.

A thought experiment.

In order to have such a huge capital gain, it means a relatively low cost basis. That means for most cases, a long-ago purchase with Proposition 13 assessment locked in.

All those years, all those savings on Property Tax, compounded if invested. (Indirectly) subsidized by Tax Donkeys who made more recent purchases at more recent prices with more recent assessments. This would include some renters who paid it through some landlords.

Now a taxable windfall capital gain. What goes around, comes around.