patrick.net

WookieMan says

ThreeBays says

Lockdowns + vaccination saved a majority of lives.

There's no model that exists that could ever prove this. If there is choice A - No lockdowns, or choice B - lockdowns, we took choice B. You or anyone has zero evidence that choice A wouldn't have been better and maybe we wouldn't have even needed a vaccine.

This idea that the path we chose was correct assumes a ton of things. I stopped listening to anything the CDC or Fauci said in early May 2020. Started traveling. Hung out with big groups of neighbors. Didn't wear a mask. Never quarantined after trips. I'm not dead, got sick once (tested negative from a BS test), didn't go to the doctor besides my foot and that was it.

You're buying the hype. I'm not trying to be a dick, more so pointing out how big of a con job Covid is/was. I understand if you're 60+ there might be some concern. Guess what... most every bo...

81% have some sort of cross immunity, so you likely came in contact with it but didn't develop any noticeable illness. To force 81% into draconian lockdowns destroying the livelihoods of many and forcing kids to stay at home, cancel school and wear masks to prevent potential (small chance, not given!) infection and illness in 20% with a chance of death around 0.01%-0.1% is not only tyrannical, diabolical and heartless, it's mathematically stupid. That is especially true when you consider the fact that there's a simple personal choice available for everyone who doesn't want to take a risk: stay at home as long as you want and fear.

mell says

To force 81% into draconian lockdowns destroying the livelihoods of many and forcing kids to stay at home, cancel school and wear masks to prevent infection and illness in 20% with a chance of death around 0.01%-0.1% is not only diabolical and heartless, it's mathematically stupid.

Bbbbut you just want to kill grandma! Every life matters!!
(Except lives ended due to vaccination. That’s necessary and right)

WookieMan says

maybe we wouldn't have even needed a vaccine.

We DON'T need a vaccine and we DON'T have a vaccine. The experimental biologic agent that the government is pushing will not end well, I fear.

ThreeBays says

And that's ignoring the fact that healthcare systems would have been overwhelmed and many more would die that could have been saved in hospitals.

Bullshit. There was never any overload aside from what happens during regular flu seasons, the Trump admin provided mobile beds and ships for the surge to leftoid governors lying through their teeth, only to go 100% unused. The bay area had no high load whatsoever ever. Also nobody was "saved" in the hospitals, they waited until people deteriorated to the max only to put them on useless ventilators. Many might not have had covid but caught it in the hospital. They never used any of the widely available proven therapeutics, not early on and not late on. They actually killed people with their inaction, but cashed in on large sums on "treatments" with ventilators and "covid deaths" in their hospitals. Simple.steroid inhalers would have been miracle drugs, as would habe been Invermectin and hcq plus zinc, selenium and high doses of vit. D. Finally Pfizer is working on an additional real therapeutic which can't come soon so that that mass vaxxing experiment and lockdown coercions finally stop.

ThreeBays says

it means the amount of death if we let the virus spread uncontrollably could be 4 or 5 times larger (i.e. over 2 million as initially modeled). And that's ignoring the fact that healthcare systems would have been overwhelmed and many more would die that could have been saved in hospitals.

Unproveable bullshit.

We never had to use the hospital ships and MASH units could have been put up wherever needed but the fact is there was no curve to flatten.

Utter bullshit.

ThreeBays says

mell says

81% have some sort of cross immunity, so you likely came in contact with it but didn't develop any noticeable illness. To force 81% into draconian lockdowns destroying the livelihoods of many and forcing kids to stay at home, cancel school and wear masks to prevent infection and illness in 20% with a chance of death around 0.01%-0.1% is not only diabolical and heartless, it's mathematically stupid.

The estimates of becoming ill, hospitalized, or dead lined up pretty much where scientists thought they were right at the beginning of the pandemic (https://youtu.be/y6h8TIxeg1g?t=54 if you need a memory jog of 1 year ago):
- 80% will have either mild or no symptoms
- 15-20% will have pneumonia
- 4% will develop ARDS or multi-organ failure
- 1% will die

Every argument that it was a h...

Bulshit. Herd immunity was predicted by most and achieved as expected after the 2nd wave, only prolonged slightly by the lockdowns. The curve had been in freefall before any mass vaccinations started. The "scientists"predicted? That's some comedy gold here. We had predictions of deaths in the millions within the year, masks don't work, then they suddenly do. If you keep counting into eternity you may reach a million deaths eventually even though excess mortality is lower than normal now! None of the "predictions" or models were even in a remote realm of correctness.

ThreeBays says

There's little to no data on how many people have died because of the vaccines instead of with the vaccines. Don't be fooled by the bots that are trying to hurt America by spinning any anecdotes about the vaccine.

VAERS?

At this point over 3,000 people's deaths have been directly attributed to the injection of the experimental biologic agent according to VAERS. some say that the actual number of deaths and injuries from the experimental biologic agent may be 10 or 20 times as great.

By little or no data do you mean that most deaths and injury's from the experimental biologic agent go unreported?

ThreeBays says

Shaman says

1) nope, still almost 600,000 died supposedly of Covid even though there were lockdowns. Lockdown states like New York fared far worse with Covid death rate than non lockdown states like Florida despite the sunshine state being jam packed with oldsters.
2)vaccines have killed a bunch of people. I thought “every life mattered?” Estimates for vax deaths run into the tens of thousands.
3)masks don’t work.

A majority of deaths are in the over 65. If 20% or less of over 65s actually got the virus, it means the amount of death if we let the virus spread uncontrollably could be 4 or 5 times larger (i.e. over 2 million as initially modeled). And that's ignoring the fact that healthcare systems would have been overwhelmed and many more would die that could have been saved in hospitals.

There's little to no data on how many people have died because of the vaccines instead o...

Well, the # of deaths would've been FAR less if we allowed docs to prescribe Ivermectin and we pushed folks to take Vitamin D supplements. But no, they didn't because that would've taken away their FDA Emergency Authorization for the gene therapy jabs.

ThreeBays says

scientists

ThreeBays says

many 10s of arguments from your side have been proven wrong again and again and again.

Proof? No ?

OK Karl.

Now they're "warning" that they're seeing more serious cases among the younger. Ya think? Gee could it have to do with the fact that milenials gained an avg. of 40 lbs during the lockdowns with the whole population an avg of 25 lbs, netfuxxing and chilling on the couch with take out food as the gubbermint ordered instead of exercising their lungs and reducing body fat with a run in the sun most days of the week?!

mell says

WookieMan says

ThreeBays says

Lockdowns + vaccination saved a majority of lives.

There's no model that exists that could ever prove this. If there is choice A - No lockdowns, or choice B - lockdowns, we took choice B. You or anyone has zero evidence that choice A wouldn't have been better and maybe we wouldn't have even needed a vaccine.

This idea that the path we chose was correct assumes a ton of things. I stopped listening to anything the CDC or Fauci said in early May 2020. Started traveling. Hung out with big groups of neighbors. Didn't wear a mask. Never quarantined after trips. I'm not dead, got sick once (tested negative from a BS test), didn't go to the doctor besides my foot and that was it.

You're buying the hype. I'm not trying to be a dick, more so pointing out how big of a con job Covid is/was....

Didn't you take the vax?

Also what bothers me is the bot/troll/disinformation smear. Nobody here has ever said covid is a hoax or not real. I'm fine with the "vaccine"/agent as a personal choice/option. Medicine and science in general have always been evolving. Only with the lefts recent clampdown on free speech have MDs now been harassed, fired and barred as well as regular folks persecuted for engaging in healthy scientific debates around this still fairly new virus. Yet the left and government acted and coerced as if they had all the answers when they had none. When did somebody disagreeing become a Russian troll or bot?!

Onvacation says

ThreeBays says

There's little to no data on how many people have died because of the vaccines instead of with the vaccines. Don't be fooled by the bots that are trying to hurt America by spinning any anecdotes about the vaccine.

VAERS?

At this point over 3,000 people's deaths have been directly attributed to the injection of the experimental biologic agent according to VAERS. some say that the actual number of deaths and injuries from the experimental biologic agent may be 10 or 20 times as great.

By little or no data do you mean that most deaths and injury's from the experimental biologic agent go unreported?

lol vaers used to be THE scientific goto database for adverse reactions and deaths. Until 2021. Now the media lackeys started attacking it as "unreliable". Go figure

ThreeBays says

Onvacation says

VAERS?

At this point over 3,000 people's deaths have been directly attributed to the injection of the experimental biologic agent according to VAERS. some say that the actual number of deaths and injuries from the experimental biologic agent may be 10 or 20 times as great.

By little or no data do you mean that most deaths and injury's from the experimental biologic agent go unreported?

You're confused; VAERS records any deaths reported "with" the vaccine, and few if any have been directly "attributed" to the vaccine yet.

mell says

lol vaers used to be THE scientific goto database for adverse reactions and deaths. Until 2021. Now the media lackeys started attacking it as "unreliable". Go figure

Not at all, why are you making shit up?

...

Of course not in the same manner that nobody can prove that anyone died of covid (as opposed to with). The vaers deaths and reactions are as likely to be caused by the agent as covid caused any of those 500k deaths. No reason to dismiss these likely vaccine caused deaths and severe side effects with a straw man disclaimer. Nobody is doing a post hum autopsy on any of the presumed covid 19 deaths, they are just alleged.

I believe the vaccine is causing massive spike protein synthesis in some people, which quickly enters the bloodstream and damaged blood vessels badly. If the damage is severe enough, wound response is activated and platelets clump to keep the vessels from leaking into the body. This can block arteries. If the major arteries are blocked in this way, it can lead to strokes or heart attacks.

So it would be predictable that some people suffer heart attacks and/or strokes within days of being vaxxed.

ThreeBays says

mell says

Of course not in the same manner that nobody can prove that anyone died of covid (as opposed to with). The vaers deaths and reactions are as likely to be caused by the agent as covid caused any of those 500k deaths. No reason to dismiss these likely vaccine caused deaths and severe side effects with a straw man disclaimer. Nobody is doing a post hum autopsy on any of the presumed covid 19 deaths, they are just alleged.

Partly true. With covid they will be able to record the cause of death based on if someone had severe covid symptoms and died from ARDS or pneumonia or multi-organ failure associated with covid condition.

On the other hand VAERS will get records of people that died of heart disease or literally any ailment within a week or something of receiving the vaccine. People die of other causes on a regular basis so it is not "as likely" to be caused by the vac...

But they aren't. With covid everyone dying with covid or even without but presumed (e.g. flu/cold/bronchitis/pneumoniae) will be recorded as covid death. Especially with the incentives of doing so. The likelihood should be around equal. Everyone who wants to make a seriously informed decision has to take the numbers and crunch them to see on which side they fall. Also stocking and taking therapeutics proven mostly safe over decades vs an experimental vaccine is a no-brainer. But to each their own.

Desflurane78 says

If you don’t get vaccinated you will not be able to leave the USA for years

I'm cool with that.

If two years from now there have been no long term effects AND it has proven to be safe and effective And the FDA has approved it I will consider taking it or forging a vaccine passport to travel (Mexico City was our next planned trip that had to be postponed for the "pandemic")

But it's not about that.

The latest cold (Corona virus) has been used to institute draconian rules (not laws) that restrict our enumerated rights. Half of the argument is being censored and the general public is told that Fauci is the leading expert on viruses when in reality he is a pencil pushing octogenarian that should have resigned after he fucked up the response to AIDS 40 years ago.

The election was stolen.

The first amendment was suspended.

Hundreds of thousands of small businesses and millions of people have lost their jobs with no prospects but corporate servitude or the dole.

The rich are richer. At least I am, and I am only rich because I am free and have resources. While my accounts have surged the number of people living hand to mouth has surged along with it. By plan? Will we truly soon own nothing and be happy? Or else?

Get the jab or you can't travel.

Paranoid rant over.

mell says

Also what bothers me is the bot/troll/disinformation smear. Nobody here has ever said covid is a hoax or not real. I'm fine with the "vaccine"/agent as a personal choice/option. Medicine and science in general have always been evolving. Only with the lefts recent clampdown on free speech have MDs now been harassed, fired and barred as well as regular folks persecuted for engaging in healthy scientific debates around this still fairly new virus. Yet the left and government acted and coerced as if they had all the answers when they had none. When did somebody disagreeing become a Russian troll or bot?!

Seriously, what else do we need to know? This fact alone tells US what WE need to know.

There. Is. An. Agenda

Onvacation says

The experimental biologic agent that the government is pushing will not end well, I fear.

It's been a month now since I had my J&J shot. Not even herpes yet.

Bitcoin says

Onvacation says

The experimental biologic agent that the government is pushing will not end well, I fear.

It's been a month now since I had my J&J shot. Not even herpes yet.

The risk is autoimmune diseases, since they have shown up in MRNA vaccines in animal models.

I don't see why you are so eager to be derisive with people who are reasonably suspicious.

People that are suspicious of a savior, are people but people that just blindly trusts a savior is either religious or a slave of their government. I don't see why you're so eager to trust. It's confusing to me when people act derisively toward people whose suspicious nature has often proven to be correct.

Like this particular example.

richwicks says

People that are suspicious of a savior, are people but people that just blindly trusts a savior is either religious or a slave of their government. I don't see why you're so eager to trust. It's confusing to me when people act derisively toward people whose suspicious nature has often proven to be correct.

It's a defense mechanism because they see it as attacking their intelligence and lack of free thinking. They don't want to feel stupid for being a sheep and not thinking for themselves, and they've already invested in their decision by getting the jab. It's human nature.

porkchopexpress says

It's a defense mechanism because they see it as attacking their intelligence and lack of free thinking. They don't want to feel stupid for being a sheep and not thinking for themselves, and they've already invested in their decision by getting the jab. It's human nature.

I don't know. I think he's trolling, but only he can reveal his actual true intent.

It's not often I run into somebody I genuinely can't tell if they are just being sarcastic all the time, of if they genuinely believe their statements.

richwicks says

It's not often I run into somebody I genuinely can't tell if they are just being sarcastic all the time, of if they genuinely believe their statements.

He's doing both. He's trolling with stupid statements but to support his point. I've seen this style online and it gets tiresome. Don't feed the troll.

ThreeBays says

"autoimmune disease from MRNA"

If the experimental biologic agent caused autoimmune disease it would have to trigger the body into creating antibodies that would recognize the bodies cells as pathogens...

Oh wait, isn't that how MRNA works?

ThreeBays says

Nothing wrong with being suspicious and being informed. It would be worth being more critical of some of the information sources like where the "autoimmune disease from MRNA" originated.

Perhaps that isn't proven, or is a complete lie, or is misinformation.

My alarm about the mRNA and DNA vaccines is 1) they aren't approved by the FDA, and 2) none of these "vaccinations" seem to have any real positive effect - none of them claim to give you immunity from the disease, only reduced reactions when sick 3) ALL of the vaccines are considered "experimental" and have not go through double blind testing yet.

I really don't see the point of this "vaccination" and it's not been properly tested for safety, but all things used on humans ARE tested - in this case, by humans. The vaccinated are the test subjects. I have no seen the result of the test yet.

I've been vaccinated for polio, and you know how concerned I'd be if I were around a polio patient that is CURRENTLY sick? I wouldn't be. I'm vaccinated. I know that vaccine actually works, because it nearly eradicated polio. Most outbreaks of polio today happen when children are vaccinated with a LIVE (but attenuated virus) and unvaccinated people around them get polio as they do virus shedding.

I haven't seen the US government act on behalf of the interests of US citizens in ages either. I have serious doubts as to this being a positive for the population.

ThreeBays says

"There's no immunity! It doesn't prevent spread!".

If this were not true, why do I need to get jabbed to protect you?

ThreeBays says

I think it's true - you don't need it to protect me (vaccinated person), only for yourself and for reducing community spread.

But eventually if everyone either gets infected or vaccinated, there's no point to reducing community spread which has already happened. If there are high risk people who haven't been infected or vaccinated, then that's on them.

ThreeBays says

only for yourself

75% of the country is totally fine if they get Covid. The 25% that get it bad barely even notice. You're vaccinating for something you might never get. Many people already got it and will have stronger resistance/reaction to it now if they get it again. The flu magically disappeared. There's too many holes in overall argument to get vaccines with a non-FDA approved drug. Which approves many drugs that kill people and damage major organs. So that's not even the gold standard.

The goal posts are out of the stadium at this point. We're relying on a guy that didn't understand AIDS. That's our expert. You don't need a mask. The list is endless on his gaffs with this and other things. He regurgitates the exact same script over and over that he was given. When challenged he gets all pissy. A confident doctor just answers because they know and not get mad.

Just because you have a job, doesn't mean you're the most qualified for it. I'm sure all of us have experienced this. I'm not taking a god damn thing "suggested" by that fucker.

ThreeBays says

your community will continue to live with stress and restrictions

Do you even understand that outside your little Bay Area enclave, most of the USA was pretty much normal. My in laws in Kansas had to mask in Walmart and a few other stores, but other than that, life continued as normal THE WHOLE FREAKING PANDEMIC! When will you realize that restrictions are NOT the result of the virus and are instead the result of short-sighted and non-science thinking by myopic bureaucracy?
We will have restrictions FOREVER for whatever reason if you continue to let them do it.

It’s really as simple as that.

ThreeBays says

I think it's true - you don't need it to protect me (vaccinated person), only for yourself and for reducing community spread.

So, you think it's true.

OK

Shaman says

Do you even understand that outside your little Bay Area enclave, most of the USA was pretty much normal.

Yeah, that's why I beat this topic up so much. I do think you guys on the West Coast have it the worst. Big, liberal cities are the worst place to be right now. Even the close suburbs and cities.

Having been through a bunch of airports since this started, it's staggering the level of brainwash going on. People wearing face shields with two masks on? I'm about 60 miles West of Madison and State (Chicago) and the closer I get to the city the dumber people are. I'll take my IL rednecks over these white collar morons that think a mask is going to save them from a virus that statistically can't kill them (for the most part). And also want to be test dummies for something they don't even understand, a "vaccine."

ThreeBays says

Well, two not awesome things will happen with ongoing community spread: your community will continue to live with stress and restrictions, and the virus will get more chances to mutate and re-emerge among the previously infected/vaccinated.

I believe the variant story is overblown and meant to scare us into submission. Science that I've read is that it mutates but only very slightly so that natural immunity still defends against it, and general they mutate and become weaker over time. I'll trust my natural immunity any day over a one-dimensional vaccine that's in its experimental phase.

ThreeBays says

Why is Florida #1 for new cases now? Why does Miami-Dade county have 10 times more new cases per capita than Santa Clara? hmmm...

Cases are meaningless as the vast majority, almost everyone lives. I also contend that the flu basically disappearing is rather strange. I don't think that can really be argued. If there was concrete evidence that the flu could be stopped by mask wearing, we'd have done it. The "science" has been amazingly wrong the whole way with covid.

You have a bit too much faith in our government. Look at NASA versus Musk. The guy is flipping landing reusable space craft and launching shuttles more than most space exploring nations COMBINED. There are plenty of doctors saying covid is a bunch of fuckery. Just because Fauci or Birx are hired by government, does not remotely mean they're the best or even competent.

My wife works exclusively with getting government contracts. I know many of her peers in government very well. We're talking generally engineers for infrastructure. They're not that bright. 9 out 10 times it's private sector contractors doing the work. They're just their to "approve" it because they got a piece of paper and knew someone in government. Fauci is friends with someone high up and should not be trusted. Sorry. Don't care what title or degree he got.

WookieMan says

You have a bit too much faith in our government.

Agree. More and more people are realizing that our government is incompetent and often feeds us BS. To not question their motives or incompetency is lunacy.

porkchopexpress says

ThreeBays says

Well, two not awesome things will happen with ongoing community spread: your community will continue to live with stress and restrictions, and the virus will get more chances to mutate and re-emerge among the previously infected/vaccinated.

I believe the variant story is overblown and meant to scare us into submission. Science that I've read is that it mutates but only very slightly so that natural immunity still defends against it, and general they mutate and become weaker over time. I'll trust my natural immunity any day over a one-dimensional vaccine that's in its experimental phase.

Fauxci = quacker who has no idea about respiratory viruses.
Variants = quackery - that's what T-cell immunity is for. Antibodies are not very significant with viral infections as compared to T/B cell immunity which does most of the heavy lifting.

porkchopexpress says

ThreeBays says

I think it's true - you don't need it to protect me (vaccinated person), only for yourself and for reducing community spread.

But eventually if everyone either gets infected or vaccinated, there's no point to reducing community spread which has already happened. If there are high risk people who haven't been infected or vaccinated, then that's on them.

asymptomatic spread = quackery - there is no significant spread without symptoms, the sick should stay at home. Done.

I talk out my ass on these threads as I know very little biology or scientific stuff. At some point though data and logic must prevail and not just blind faith in government employees at a podium or desk.

I diagnosed my own gall bladder going bad with my mom at 20 from a big book she had on ailments/symptoms prior to WebMD. Got two opinions from dumb ass doctors. Have a full ass gall bladder attack (stone) and let me know how it feels and the reaction afterwards. I was shitting ghosts for weeks before we figured it out. Liver biopsy came back healthy, but the "doctors/scientist" fucked up for weeks.

No industry or field is perfect. With health issues is amazingly easy to misdiagnose or not diagnose at all which was my case. So I diagnosed myself and was in surgery a week later. Could have prevented a lot of pain. It sucked. And many of our docs come from prestigious universities like Northwestern and University of Chicago.

ThreeBays says

If you do your own research then that's the best - but when it comes to getting someone else's opinion, it'd be silly to distrust doctors and at the same time to trust some random a-hole that either knows little about what they're talking about or worse they're actually trying to cause harm.

Why? Doctors are just fed how to treat symptoms with pills, rather than diet and exercise?

My good friend is an MD. The guy is on 5 medications at 37 years old. UNREAL!! He believes in medicine - including the one he had to quit taking due to cancerous side effects.

Natural doctors are generally better, but they can get supplement happy.

The most "honest" MD/medical people I've come to trust are those who have overcome serious medical conditions (because big pharma failed them), and they got off all meds and adopted a different lifestyle.

I used to struggle with inflammation and neck pain. Docs wanted me all drugged up. I went on an anti-inflammatory diet and water fast every 6 weeks and no longer have issues.

Keep the vax. It's unproven and sketchy. To say anything otherwise is dishonest.

ThreeBays says

it'd be silly to distrust doctors and at the same time to trust some random a-hole that either knows little about what they're talking about or worse they're actually trying to cause harm.

No offense but you are the random ——— on the internet. I trust this guy over you, and he is an expert in research. It is definitely worth the time to hear this interview.

https://rumble.com/vg4inv-michael-yeadon-full-interview-planet-lockdown.html