patrick.net

ThreeBays says

I opened the 3 largest controlled studies that they put in the "Positive" bin for early treatment.

Do you still not understand the point of most here? Covid isn't going to kill you. We have members here that got it and plenty of anecdotal evidence from friends and family. This is over a year after Covid got out.

We're 9 months from seeing early effects of the vaccines. You literally have no clue what it could do to you. I'd agree it's mostly safe to get the vaccine, but I'd also say covid won't kill me anyway. The 70+ crowd has minimal concerns if you're being realistic. What 5% death rate for people that are mostly dead?

My 9 year old nephews best friend was diagnosed with leukemia last week. We have no idea when our time is coming. I sure as shit am not ingesting something I have no clue about. I'm not trying to be a dick, but your point of view is massively flawed. It's not right or left. It's data and facts. Vaccinate yourself, just don't try to sell us on it. If we wanted it, we'd get it. Not much else to discuss.

ThreeBays says

This forum is getting pretty short of different points of view. Seems like a loss to me to have this place be an echo chamber. I don't know if that's what Patrick wanted out of patrick.net or not.

I disagree. I don't like many points of view here and I'll address them with users frequently.

For example on Covid. I don't really have to wear a mask where I'm at 98% of the time, but when I get closer to Chicago I will. Restaurants are one example. Many users here say fuck that and just not wear them. I agree with them, but I will wear a mask. I just don't fight them on the occasional mask wearing. They probably think I'm a cuck or something throwing on the mask from time to time. Whatever.

Ultimately the vaccines were pushed through in record time. Partly by Trump and still sold by Biden. So this isn't really left or right anymore. We have over 400+ days of data on this virus. It's not a pandemic. It's not deadly. We have 2-3 months of data from a larger sample size for SHORT term reactions. FDA hasn't approved it.

For me, the outcome from getting Covid would be fine to a nothing burger. I simply don't know with any of these vaccines.

WineHorror1 says

I used to be more on the pro-vaccine side but the BS on the pro-vaxxers exceeds the BS on the anti-vaxxers.

I want to make you aware of what you THINK are "anti-vaxers".

I'm not opposed to vaccinations at all. I think they are largely positive. What I object to is the denial there can be detriments - but it may well be worth hurting or even killing 1000 people to save 1,000,000.

I just have no belief this government is working on behalf our the population at this point and I will point out that what is called a "vaccination" today, was not called that, just 3 years ago. This is not an attenuated or killed virus, it's experimental, even in animal studies.

The polio vaccine program of the 1960's - I think that was done to help the population because the population was valued as a resource, but a vaccination for a virus that is largely not dangerous, and only kills (at very most) less than 1% of the population? I'm doubtful of. Especially when it threatens most the elderly - because our government I don't think has any interest in paying Social Security. They would love to kill off the elderly.

Boomers run the country, and they are largely viscous and sociopathic. They are nothing like their parents.

ThreeBays says

This forum is getting pretty short of different points of view. Seems like a loss to me to have this place be an echo chamber. I don't know if that's what Patrick wanted out of patrick.net or not.

Well, this particular thread is about the shot not really being a vaccination and more of an experiment... what do you expect?

Patrick says

https://c19hcq.com/ continues to accumulate overwhelming evidence for the efficacy of HCQ.

Thanks Patrick, I was looking for that site.

ThreeBays says

This forum is getting pretty short of different points of view. Seems like a loss to me to have this place be an echo chamber. I don't know if that's what Patrick wanted out of patrick.net or not.

That's why we appreciate you being here. It's important to hear the leftist lies so we know what we are up against.

ThreeBays says

WookieMan says

My 9 year old nephews best friend was diagnosed with leukemia last week. We have no idea when our time is coming. I sure as shit am not ingesting something I have no clue about. I'm not trying to be a dick, but your point of view is massively flawed. It's not right or left. It's data and facts. Vaccinate yourself, just don't try to sell us on it. If we wanted it, we'd get it. Not much else to discuss.

I'm not trying to sell you on it, just dispelling some bad data when I see it.

This forum is getting pretty short of different points of view. Seems like a loss to me to have this place be an echo chamber. I don't know if that's what Patrick wanted out of patrick.net or not.

Most of us are not anti vaccination, just about the freedom of making informed personal decisions on each vaccine. Most if not all are probably sold on tetanus and polio vaccines, some may take the flu vaccine, some may take mmr boosters. Some may see value in hep b, pneumococcal or shingles vaccines as they age. The point is that so far each and all of these vaccines are totally optional yet uptaken by a decent percentage, so why make any changes with the covid vaccine and have a mass propaganda campaign and coercion? It simply doesn't pass the smell test. And the data at hand and evolving is certain cause for caution and review.

mell says

Most of us are not anti vaccination, just about the freedom of making informed personal decisions on each vaccine. Most if not all are probably sold on tetanus and polio vaccines, some may take the flu vaccine, some may take mmr boosters.

This.

GREAT CLOSING WORDS - R. KENNEDY JR, DR. JUDY MIKOVITS, DR. MARTIN & DR. ROCCO GALATI

It's not about protecting us from disease, it's about controlling populations.

Worth reading.

Link between vaxx and increased death rate.

https://twitter.com/Metabo_PhD/status/1387548104073912324

I see this site as a place where it is possible to speak truth to power.

Power, now, is entirely in the hands of anti-democratic global corporate forces. They use their essentially infinite wealth to harass and fire anyone who questions their false narrative of "racism" or who gets too close to the truth that the elite got vastly richer by screwing over the entire middle of the country by outsourcing everything to China.

They not only own and run the global corporations, they have an effective monopoly on mainstream media, Hollywood, academia (including elementary schools), and now government (through election fraud).

They are seeking to crush all freedoms for maximum profit and power. We are advocating for freedom and our Constitutional rights. Well, most of us here are.

Patrick says

our Constitutional rights

Our rights!

The constitution only enumerated them. Imagine how fucked up things would be if the founders had not LISTED the rights men HAVE. For one thing the constitution never would have been ratified because the taste of tyrants was too fresh on the new world's palate.

ThreeBays says

...many vaccines ARE not just recommended but mandated by states to be able to attend public school

With full FDA authorisation - yes. With only emergency authorisation - I doubt it. Examples would help.

Well, regarding Pfizer and their earnings per a Reuters article today.....they earned 3.5 Billion from the vax in the 1st quarter alone. This makes 1/3 of total sales for the year. It is their best selling product in the 1st quarter. They will boost their annual sales expectations for the vax by 70%.. With that in mind, they will continue to "tweak" production of the vax and are working on contracts with the government for 2022 and beyond. What does this tell you? Unholy alliance of pharma and business with government. Unproven results. HUUUGE potential numbers and now, of course, as the "studies" have proven, it is now safe to give to the 2 - 12 year old crowd. What studies? How can you have actual studies in a few month period? Follow the money. I will remain in the "control group", the one they forgot to have for their studies. And "tweaking"??? probably for 3rd and other booster shots for the VERY SCARY variants. Keep the ball rolling....

joshuatrio says

Vaxxed...?

I choose not to take an experimental biologic agent until after the human volunteer trials for long term effects have been completed. I find my own life too valuable to volunteer to be a Guinea pig for these tests.

Especially since they offer no immunity and little protection from the Wuhan.

What the fuck is the matter with people?

I just got this BS message from Anthem Blue Cross, my insurance provider:

"Getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is one of the best and safest ways to protect yourself and everyone around you. Learn how your Anthem plan covers the vaccine and your vaccination, how health authorities are ensuring vaccine safety*, and when the vaccine will be available.

1. Anthem members will receive the COVID-19 vaccination at no cost.
Anthem will cover the cost of the COVID-19 vaccine. Anthem members won’t have out-of-pocket costs for the vaccine during this national public health emergency. This applies to all members, regardless of the type of health plan they have, or which doctor or healthcare professional they choose to visit for COVID-19 vaccination.

2. The FDA has approved the vaccine.
Researchers have studied vaccine reactions and potential side effects throughout the trials. The FDA and outside experts carefully reviewed all of the clinical trial data when weighing approval of the vaccine. The FDA, CDC, and vaccine manufacturers will continuously monitor vaccine safety and quality.

Look at # 2...WTF???? The FDA has approved the vaccine??? NO, NOT REALLY....They cant give this shit away, apparently. And they are outright lying.

Of course they're lying. They're in cahoots with big pharma. We don't get to see the "real" billing on anything. Insurance and doctors are the damn sales people for pharma basically. It's the biggest quid pro quo in the world. They're all scratching each others back. Patient be damned. Not different than real estate between brokers, lenders, attorneys, etc.

The "plunge" is not very impressive given how much they've raked in over the last year by experimenting on the public. Here's MRNA, the biggest "plunger":

Good news. Precious bodily fluids not harmed by Pfizer mRNA vaccine.
The COVID-19 mRNA vaccine from Pfizer Inc and BioNTech SE does not damage sperm, according to a study by Israeli researchers. They collected sperm samples from 43 male volunteers before and roughly a month after the men were vaccinated. None of their sperm parameters - volume, concentration, or motility - had changed significantly after vaccination, the researchers reported Monday on medRxiv ahead of peer review.

EBGuy says

They collected sperm samples from 43 male volunteers before and roughly a month after the men were vaccinated. None of their sperm parameters - volume, concentration, or motility - had changed significantly after vaccination,

Good to know.

I'm still not getting the jab.

Onvacation says

I'm still not getting the jab.

Onvacation, could I have your dose instead?
I got the J&J shot but I am thinking of getting the pfizer shots and the moderna shots soon to be triple safe this year.

Bitcoin says

Onvacation says

I'm still not getting the jab.

Onvacation, could I have your dose instead?
I got the J&J shot but I am thinking of getting the pfizer shots and the moderna shots soon to be triple safe this year.

Yeah, what the heck. Blood thinners are cheap.

Bitcoin says

Onvacation, could I have your dose instead?
I got the J&J shot but I am thinking of getting the pfizer shots and the moderna shots soon to be triple safe this year.

There’s a hefty surplus right now. Drug stores are wasting more vaccine than they’re jabbing into the arms of an adoring public.

I dropped out of the back and forth on this convo a long while ago because it seemed more like people are just saying, "yeah but i'm not gunna!" "it's experimental, we don't know its safe", and "if you get the jab you are sheeple".

So I'm back, but only to provide data, and not to challenge your idea that you aren't sheeple.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine

The phase 3 study start date was July 27th. That puts us a little over 9 months post trial injections. Is anyone hearing reports of serious side effects starting to pop up?

This was a study of over 40k people.

Also, this means phase 2 and phase 1 clinical trials started much earlier. Anyone getting any reports of side effects in those populations?

I'll reiterate, i still respect everyone's right to not get the vaccine, but I will keep repeating that the higher the number of transmissions, the greater the chance for deadlier mutations, and mutations that the vaccine does not block against.

I still disagree with mask requirements post vaccine, and I still disagree with mandatory shutdowns, and a whole bunch of the economic policies, and even health codes that have been put in place. But I do really like a lot of the voluntary steps that businesses have engaged in, and disagree with the idiots who try to force their way into stores without masks. It's a private business, and if you disagree with the policy, you are free not to shop there.

As far as making fun of people who do wear masks, even outdoors... or take the vaccine... I don't know what anyone hopes to accomplish. It's a free country, and someone wants to behave differently without affecting you, so.. revert to schoolyard bullying/mocking tactics? Seems pretty childish and ignorant to me. Then again.. bullying/mocking is still a thing because it "works" as a societal pressure to conformity.

I appreciate when commenters like OnVacation says "good to know.. still not doing it." shows a level of maturity, respect, and agreement to disagree based on a different risk analysis.. As far as "what the fuck is wrong with these people" , maybe he can just recognize that they have a different risk profile than him as well.

You really have to ask yourself, Why does the government want every man, woman, and child to get injected with an experimental biologic agent for a cold that is asymptomatic or has minor symptoms for most? AND they are trying to pass it off as a "safe and effective vaccine" when it has caused many deaths and injuries, does not confer immunity, and will not stop you from spreading the disease.

Something nefarious is going on above and beyond all the nefarious stuff that is going on all the time.

Zak says

The phase 3 study start date was July 27th. That puts us a little over 9 months post trial injections. Is anyone hearing reports of serious side effects starting to pop up?

This was a study of over 40k people.

Also, this means phase 2 and phase 1 clinical trials started much earlier. Anyone getting any reports of side effects in those populations?

Wow! Are you implying that they created a vaccine for a "pandemic" sometime within the next month after we got locked down for 2 weeks on March 13 2020 so that phase one and phase two could start at the end of July?

Let's say they finished creating the experimental biologic agent on June 1st and started jabbing the human test guinea pigs. That would mean that the first jabbed hasn't even had a year to develop long term effects.

I suppose you know how the animal studies on these kind of treatments turned out?

I'm still going to stay part of the no experimental biologic agent control group.

Zak says

I do really like a lot of the voluntary steps that businesses have engaged in, and disagree with the idiots who try to force their way into stores without masks. It's a private business, and if you disagree with the policy, you are free not to shop there.

What about many states suspension of the first amendment? Are you OK with that?

Zak says

Is anyone hearing reports of serious side effects starting to pop up?

This was a study of over 40k people.

Also, this means phase 2 and phase 1 clinical trials started much earlier. Anyone getting any reports of side effects in those populations?

It's not like such information could be suppressed, right? I mean, anyone can post anything on the most popular social platforms and be sure his account won't be suspended and content wiped out, right? And remember how the deaths in the old folks homes were immediately and accurately reported by the NY state government? Nah, I'm sure if there were serious side effects starting to pop up we would know for sure. Take that Tiffany Dover situation: every silly trumpanzee has assumed she had suffered from serious side effects after vaccination and then died, but the string of video interviews with her released by all major network has put that stupid theory to rest in mere days. Hours, actually!

Zak says

. As far as "what the fuck is wrong with these people" , maybe he can just recognize that they have a different risk profile than him as well.

Do you believe that every man woman and child should take an experimental biologic agent?

Follow the science!
Onvacation says

Especially since they offer no immunity and little protection from the Wuhan.

What the fuck is the matter with people?

Onvacation says

What the fuck is the matter with people?

To answer my own question, many people have bought the propaganda and see the jab as route back to normal. They trust that the government has their best interest and is here to help them. They believe all of the "publications" they have trusted their whole life. They think that the people who are fighting for stupid shit like "liberty and freedom" are impeding the return to normal.

"Why does the government want every man, woman, and child to get injected with an experimental biologic agent for a cold that is asymptomatic or has minor symptoms for most? "
The same reason lots of people want this to happen?
my few basic reasons:

- Because the transmission rate is astronomical, and with a mutation, the affected populations can expand stupidly fast.
- Because even if it is old people filling up hospitals, hospitals still become full and unable to deal with other healthcare issues
- because i have older relatives, and I give a shit about their safety
- because fuck cuomo stuffing infected people back into nursing homes ( in other words, the choices government makes when the ARE a bunch of sick people are fucking terrible)
- because if there do become situations where dead people are overwhelming the burial system, other diseases can take hold
- because an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure
- because I know lots of doctors, and not one of them is the pharma shill that people seem to want to make them out to be
- because doctors i know are also skeptical, but after reviewing the available data also decided it was sensible in terms of risk
- because your basic statement is wrong, and if you already had covid, you don't need the vaccine
- because the flu is less bad than covid and we still recommend a vaccine for that for most of these same reasons, and even though it has lower efficacy
- because a meteor might hit tomorrow, but that is a terrible evaluation of what might actually happen in terms of actual probability
- because nefarious activity isn't supported by much reliable evidence.. mostly we just see a bunch of scared and stupid/uneducated people acting in an uncoordinated fashion (because being coordinated, and smart, and consistent across an entire country is pretty dang hard)
- Because covid is actually worse for most people across most demographic categories for most symptoms by a factor of about 40 or greater (death, side effects, etc)
-because covid REPLICATES and SPREADS.. the vaccine does not. If I get the vaccine and get symptoms, i can't transmit it to you. The same is not true of getting covid.
-because the vaccine does not mutate !!!!
-because the vaccine had the same spike protein generation as the virus. If the "experimental biological agent" is going to cause you long term problems, then they are the same problems the virus would cause you because it is the same protein. But , the virus will be worse, because it will keep pumping out those proteins in greater quantity and at an increasing rate without giving your immune system a chance to respond.

- because if its no big deal to get covid and for your immune system to respond to the spike protein there, then what in the world would you be worried about the same protein from the vaccine for?

- because covid is also "an experimental biological agent", and one created outside of vaccine safety protocols..
- because if an "experimental biological agent" with vaccine safety protocols and mostly no side effects might have worrisome long term side effects, why wouldn't the vaccine with the same spike protein that is also "mostly minor" also have those same potential long term side effects that you appear worried about?

- because herd immunity has a positive personal benefit to me and my family
- because if I take it, and I'm ok, then it will probably be ok for my kids when they are older
- because I know there IS a possibility of death or complications.. 8 cases of bloodclotting disorders per million for instance.. and those odds are really fucking good

And lastly:

- because no one I've heard argue against it addresses any of these points, and instead just says "there might be a conspiracy tho!!!"

Zak says

- because no one I've heard argue against it addresses any of these points, and instead just says "there might be a conspiracy tho!!!"

Really? You think that no one has addressed any of your points?

What about the first amendment question?

Zak says

just says "there might be a conspiracy tho!!!"

Here is one transparent conspiracy that sticks out for me. A conspiracy to get fucking rich.
The COVID-19 vaccines for coronavirus were developed more rapidly than any vaccine in history, using technology that has never been approved before, by companies with extensive histories of criminal fraud. The process has minted a handful of instant billionaires and enriched countless others, no Jonas Salk to be found in this cash grab. Big Pharma CEO’s have acknowledged the Once-in-a-Lifetime nature of this “opportunity”.

Zak says

Because the transmission rate is astronomical, and with a mutation, the affected populations can expand stupidly fast.

How fast is stupid fast? can you quantify? Or is this point, like most of your points, just fear mongering?

A few months ago an old pal of mine said “I don’t know for sure, but I just trust the system”. It was epiphanal to me because it made me realize that I may trust individuals but I don’t trust ANYTHING about The System. I don’t trust the self-dealing, rationalizing, greed of humans that are sheltered by any corporate structure. And I don’t trust what is going on here at all.
Mass media in this country has been transparently complicit in great crimes, in service to the elite, all my life and so are not to be trusted on any of their reporting on Covid or the vaccines. I honestly don’t understand how anyone has faith in any of the power structures in America today.
Anyway, this is a great dividing line, those with no faith have a really hard time communicating with the faithful.
We truly live in different worlds.

@mell - Your mom's case is the thing that makes me so irritated with regards to the vaccine. All the evidence I've seen says you are absolutely correct with respect to immunity and not needing the vaccine if you were infected. The lack of education on how immunity works keeps spreading mistakes like this that only lead people to question if this whole thing is a big conspiracy. We have these stupid "keep wearing your mask after vaccination" requirements. The lack of consistency and education on just what the hell is going on basically leads everyone to question everything all the time, and just take a deferential attitude to some other expert who must be right.

There IS a basic set of facts and logic and knowledge about medicine and biology that applies here. It's pretty much criminal the way Fauci has engaged when questioned if for instance there are mutated strains of covid that are not blocked by the vaccine. The answer is no. There could be a mutation, but there is not a mutation yet. Avoiding stating this clearly in hopes that if there is a mutation that it will be blocked by masks, but trying to obfuscate that as the thinking is basically a TM "big fucking lie". It makes the people not trust anything from anybody.

I guess fortunately, if your mom does get the vaccine, it should pretty much just not do anything...

@Zak

When do you think the pandemic will end?

@onvacation - its not fear mongering. you are correct in that any mutation that does occur might NOT be a "bad" mutation.

As far as the probablity of mutation.. 100% . In fact, we know of I think at least 8 variations so far.
The probability of "bad" mutation.. this is my basic take:

In the past ~100 years, there have probably been between 1000 or 100,000 different strains of the flu (I have no idea) as a projection, given that we currently have about 27 types:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/types.htm

Of those, 1 strain was the spanish flu, and that killed 120 million+ people.

Feel free to refine these estimated numbers if you think my logic is unsound.

so to me, there is a 1 in 1000 to 1 in 100,000 chance that we have a mutation that turns into something like the spanish flu.

There is probably a substantially greater chance that we get a mutation that will not be blocked by the vaccine.

So far we've had 8 known mutations. So on the high risk side, it's pretty fucking dangerous risk wise.

On the lower risk side, 1/100000, it's still way more beneficial in my estimation if people get vaccinated. 1 in 100,000 chance of a super deadly global catastrophe coming out of this already not too great situation, vs a mostly side effect free vaccine (maybe 1/1,000,000 chance of death)

Again, I have only my own logic generating these numbers from data that i know, and I try to be transparent about how I think about it. If you have better data, I would update my risk beliefs.. But to me the mutation thing looks pretty fucking risky at this point. (Better now that lots are getting vaccinated).

Zak says

So far we've had 8 known mutations. So on the high risk side, it's pretty fucking dangerous risk wise.

With survival rate north of 99% for people under 70? That's a very unconventional definition of "pretty fucking dangerous".