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mell
2021 May 8, 9:10am
"
Possible answers are many, she says. One is that social distancing is in place, and people are keeping the spread down. Another possibility is that a lot of people are immune because of T cell responses or something else. “Whatever it is,” Gupta added, “if there is a significant fraction of the population that is not permissive to the infection, then that all makes sense, given how infectious SARS-CoV-2 is.”
Buggert’s study in Sweden seems to support this position. Investigating close family members of patients with confirmed covid-19, he found T cell responses in those who were seronegative or asymptomatic.10 While around 60% of family members produced antibodies, 90% had T cell responses. (Other studies have reported similar results.27) “So many people got infected and didn’t create antibodies,” concludes Buggert.
Deeper discussion
T cell studies have received scant media attention, in contrast to research on antibodies, which seem to dominate the news (probably, says Buggert, because antibodies are easier, faster, and cheaper to study than T cells). Two recent studies reported that naturally acquired antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 begin to wane after just 2-3 months, fuelling speculation in the lay press about repeat infections.282930
But T cell studies allow for a substantially different, more optimistic, interpretation. In the Singapore study, for example, SARS-CoV-1 reactive T cells were found in SARS patients 17 years after infection. “Our findings also raise the possibility that long lasting T cells generated after infection with related viruses may be able to protect against, or modify the pathology caused by, infection with SARS-CoV-2,”8 the investigators wrote.
T cell studies may also help shed light on other mysteries of covid-19, such as why children have been surprisingly spared the brunt of the pandemic, why it affects people differently, and the high rate of asymptomatic infections in children and young adults.
The immunologists I spoke to agreed that T cells could be a key factor that explains why places like New York, London, and Stockholm seem to have experienced a wave of infections and no subsequent resurgence. This would be because protective levels of immunity, not measurable through serology alone but instead the result of a combination of pre-existing and newly formed immune responses, could now exist in the population, preventing an epidemic rise in new infections.
But they were all quick to note that this is speculation. Formally, the clinical implications of the pre-existing T cell reactivity remain an open question. “People say you don’t have proof, and they’re right,” says Buggert, adding that the historical blood donor specimens in his study were all anonymised, precluding longitudinal follow-up.
There is the notion that perhaps T cell responses are detrimental and predispose to more severe disease. “I don’t see that as a likely possibility,” Sette said, while emphasising that we still need to acknowledge the possibility. “It’s also possible that this absolutely makes no difference. The cross reactivity is too small or weak to affect the virus. The other outcome is that this does make a difference, that it makes you respond better.”
Weiskopf added, “Right now, I think everything is a possibility; we just don’t know. The reason we’re optimistic is we have seen with other viruses where [the T cell response] actually helps you.” One example is swine flu, where research has shown that people with pre-existing reactive T cells had clinically milder disease (box 1).121314
Weiskopf and Sette maintain that compelling evidence could come through a properly designed prospective study that follows a cohort of people who were enrolled before exposure to SARS-CoV-2, comparing the clinical course of those with and without pre-existing T cell responses.
Understanding the protective value of pre-existing SARS-CoV-2 T cell reactivity “is identical to the situation on vaccines,” said Antonio Bertoletti, professor of infectious disease at Duke-NUS Medical School in Singapore. “Through vaccination we aim to stimulate antibodies and T cell production, and we hope that such induction of immunity will protect … but we need a phase III clinical study to really demonstrate the effect.”
German investigators came to the same conclusion, arguing that their T cell findings represented a “decisive rationale to initiate worldwide prospective studies” mapping pre-existing reactivity to clinical outcomes.31 Other groups have called for the same thing.6
“At the start of the pandemic, a key mantra was that we needed the game changer of antibody data to understand who had been infected and how many were protected,” two immunologists from Imperial College London wrote in a mid-July commentary in Science Immunology. “As we have learned more about this challenging infection, it is time to admit that we really need the T cell data too.”32
Theoretically, the placebo arm of a covid-19 vaccine trial could provide a straightforward way to carry out such a study, by comparing the clinical outcomes of people with versus those without pre-existing T cell reactivity to SARS-CoV-2. A review by The BMJ of all primary and secondary outcome measures being studied in the two large ongoing, placebo controlled phase III trials, however, suggests that no such analysis is being done.3334
Could pre-existing immunity be more protective than future vaccines? Without studying the question, we won’t know.
Acknowledgments
I thank Juan-Andres Leon and Angela Spelsberg for comments on a draft of this article.
Footnotes
Competing interests: I am a colleague of Ulrich Keil, quoted in this article. A generic statement of competing interests may be found at https://www.bmj.com/about-bmj/editorial-staff/peter-doshi
Provenance and peer review: Commissioned; externally peer reviewed.
This article is made freely available for use in accordance with BMJ's website terms and conditions for the duration of the covid-19 pandemic or until otherwise determined by BMJ. You may use, download and print the article for any lawful, non-commercial purpose (including text and data mining) provided that all copyright notices and trade marks are retained.
https://bmj.com/coronavirus/usage
References
↵Rosenberg ES, Tesoriero JM, Rosenthal EM, et al. Cumulative incidence and diagnosis of SARS-CoV-2 infection in New York. Ann Epidemiol2020;48:23-9.e4. .pmid:32648546PubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Public Health England. Sero-surveillance of COVID-19. 2020. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports/sero-surveillance-of-covid-19
↵Pollán M, Pérez-Gómez B, Pastor-Barriuso R, et al., ENE-COVID Study Group. Prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 in Spain (ENE-COVID): a nationwide, population-based seroepidemiological study. Lancet2020;396:535-44. .pmid:32645347CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵CDC. Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). 2020 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html
↵Grifoni A, Weiskopf D, Ramirez SI, et al. Targets of T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus in humans with COVID-19 disease and unexposed individuals. Cell2020;181:1489-1501.e15. .pmid:32473127CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Ng K, Faulkner N, Cornish G, Rosa A, Earl C, Wrobel A, et al. Pre-existing and de novo humoral immunity to SARS-CoV-2 in humans [preprint]. BioRxiv. 2020. doi:10.1101/2020.05.14.095414.Abstract/FREE Full TextGoogle Scholar
↵Weiskopf D, Schmitz KS, Raadsen MP, Grifoni A, Okba NMA, Endeman H, et al. Phenotype of SARS-CoV-2-specific T-cells in COVID-19 patients with acute respiratory distress syndrome [preprint]. MedRxiv 2020. doi:10.1101/2020.04.11.20062349.Abstract/FREE Full TextGoogle Scholar
↵Le Bert N, Tan AT, Kunasegaran K, et al. SARS-CoV-2-specific T cell immunity in cases of COVID-19 and SARS, and uninfected controls. Nature2020;584:457-62. . doi:10.1038/s41586-020-2550-z pmid:32668444CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Meckiff BJ, Ramírez-Suástegui C, Fajardo V, et al. Single-cell transcriptomic analysis of SARS-CoV-2 reactive CD4 + T cells. bioRxiv2020:2020.06.12.148916. doi:10.1101/2020.06.12.148916. pmid:32587963CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Sekine T, Perez-Potti A, Rivera-Ballesteros O, et al. Robust T cell immunity in convalescent individuals with asymptomatic or mild COVID-19 [preprint]. 2020 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.29.174888v1.abstract.
↵Sette A, Crotty S. Pre-existing immunity to SARS-CoV-2: the knowns and unknowns. Nat Rev Immunol2020;20:457-8. . doi:10.1038/s41577-020-0389-z pmid:32636479CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Greenbaum JA, Kotturi MF, Kim Y, et al. Pre-existing immunity against swine-origin H1N1 influenza viruses in the general human population. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A2009;106:20365-70. . doi:10.1073/pnas.0911580106 pmid:19918065Abstract/FREE Full TextGoogle Scholar
↵Sridhar S, Begom S, Bermingham A, et al. Cellular immune correlates of protection against symptomatic pandemic influenza. Nat Med2013;19:1305-12. . doi:10.1038/nm.3350 pmid:24056771CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Wilkinson TM, Li CKF, Chui CSC, et al. Preexisting influenza-specific CD4+ T cells correlate with disease protection against influenza challenge in humans. Nat Med2012;18:274-80. . doi:10.1038/nm.2612 pmid:22286307CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Serum cross-reactive antibody response to a novel influenza A (H1N1) virus after vaccination with seasonal influenza vaccine. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep2009;58:521-4. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19478718.pmid:19478718PubMedGoogle Scholar
↵World Health Organization. Ten things you need to know about pandemic influenza. 2005. http://web.archive.org/web/20081208145210/www.who.int/csr/disease/influenza/pandemic10things/en.
↵Considerations for assessing the severity of an influenza pandemic. Wkly Epidemiol Rec2009;84(22):197-202.PubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Mateus J, Grifoni A, Tarke A, et al. Selective and cross-reactive SARS-CoV-2 T cell epitopes in unexposed humans. Science2020. . doi:10.1126/science.abd3871 pmid:32753554AbstractGoogle Scholar
↵Rosenberg ES, Tesoriero JM, Rosenthal EM, et al. Cumulative incidence and diagnosis of SARS-CoV-2 infection in New York [preprint]. medRxiv. 2020. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.25.20113050v1.
↵Fine P, Eames K, Heymann DL. “Herd immunity”: a rough guide[Internet]. Clin Infect Dis2011;52:911-6. . doi:10.1093/cid/cir007 pmid:21427399CrossRefPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar
↵Fox JP, Elveback L, Scott W, Gatewood L, Ackerman E. Herd immunity: basic concept and relevance to public health immunization practices. Am J Epidemiol1971;94:179-89. . doi:10.1093/oxfordjournals.aje.a121310 pmid:5093648CrossRefPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar
↵Aguas R, Corder RM, King JG, Goncalves G, Ferreira MU, Gomes MGM. Herd immunity thresholds for SARS-CoV-2 estimated from unfolding epidemics [preprint]. medRxiv. 2020. https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.07.23.20160762.
↵Gomes MGM, Corder RM, King JG, Langwig KE, Souto-Maior C, Carneiro J, et al. Individual variation in susceptibility or exposure to SARS-CoV-2 lowers the herd immunity threshold [preprint]. MedRxiv. 2 May 2020. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.20081893v3.
↵Lourenco J, Pinotti F, Thompson C, Gupta S. The impact of host resistance on cumulative mortality and the threshold of herd immunity for SARS-CoV-2 [preprint]. medRxiv. 2020. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20154294v1.
↵Welsh RM, Selin LK. No one is naive: the significance of heterologous T-cell immunity. Nat Rev Immunol2002;2:417-26. . doi:10.1038/nri820 pmid:12093008CrossRefPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar
↵Habib H. Has Sweden’s controversial covid-19 strategy been successful?BMJ2020;369:m2376. . doi:10.1136/bmj.m2376 pmid:32532807FREE Full TextGoogle Scholar
↵Gallais F, Velay A, Wendling M-J, et al. Intrafamilial exposure to SARS-CoV-2 induces cellular immune response without seroconversion [preprint]. MedRxiv 2020. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.21.20132449v1.
↵Long Q-X, Tang X-J, Shi Q-L, et al. Clinical and immunological assessment of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections. Nat Med2020;26:1200-4. . doi:10.1038/s41591-020-0965-6 pmid:32555424CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Mandavilli A. You may have antibodies after coronavirus infection. But not for long. New York Times. 2020 Jun 18. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/health/coronavirus-antibodies.html
↵Seow J, Graham C, Merrick B, Acors S, Steel KJA, Hemmings O, et al. Longitudinal evaluation and decline of antibody responses in SARS-CoV-2 infection preprint. MedRxiv. 2020. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.09.20148429v1.
↵Braun J, Loyal L, Frentsch M, Wendisch D, Georg P, Kurth F, et al. Presence of SARS-CoV-2 reactive T cells in COVID-19 patients and healthy donors [preprint]. MedRxiv 2020. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17.20061440v1.
↵Altmann DM, Boyton RJ. SARS-CoV-2 T cell immunity: Specificity, function, durability, and role in protection. Sci Immunol2020;5:eabd6160. doi:10.1126/sciimmunol.abd6160 pmid:32680954Abstract/FREE Full TextGoogle Scholar
↵A study to evaluate efficacy, safety, and immunogenicity of mRNA-1273 vaccine in adults aged 18 years and older to prevent COVID-19. 2020 Aug 19. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427.
↵Study to describe the safety, tolerability, immunogenicity, and efficacy of RNA vaccine candidates against COVID-19 in healthy adults. 2020. https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728
View Abstract
"
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563
Possible answers are many, she says. One is that social distancing is in place, and people are keeping the spread down. Another possibility is that a lot of people are immune because of T cell responses or something else. “Whatever it is,” Gupta added, “if there is a significant fraction of the population that is not permissive to the infection, then that all makes sense, given how infectious SARS-CoV-2 is.”
Buggert’s study in Sweden seems to support this position. Investigating close family members of patients with confirmed covid-19, he found T cell responses in those who were seronegative or asymptomatic.10 While around 60% of family members produced antibodies, 90% had T cell responses. (Other studies have reported similar results.27) “So many people got infected and didn’t create antibodies,” concludes Buggert.
Deeper discussion
T cell studies have received scant media attention, in contrast to research on antibodies, which seem to dominate the news (probably, says Buggert, because antibodies are easier, faster, and cheaper to study than T cells). Two recent studies reported that naturally acquired antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 begin to wane after just 2-3 months, fuelling speculation in the lay press about repeat infections.282930
But T cell studies allow for a substantially different, more optimistic, interpretation. In the Singapore study, for example, SARS-CoV-1 reactive T cells were found in SARS patients 17 years after infection. “Our findings also raise the possibility that long lasting T cells generated after infection with related viruses may be able to protect against, or modify the pathology caused by, infection with SARS-CoV-2,”8 the investigators wrote.
T cell studies may also help shed light on other mysteries of covid-19, such as why children have been surprisingly spared the brunt of the pandemic, why it affects people differently, and the high rate of asymptomatic infections in children and young adults.
The immunologists I spoke to agreed that T cells could be a key factor that explains why places like New York, London, and Stockholm seem to have experienced a wave of infections and no subsequent resurgence. This would be because protective levels of immunity, not measurable through serology alone but instead the result of a combination of pre-existing and newly formed immune responses, could now exist in the population, preventing an epidemic rise in new infections.
But they were all quick to note that this is speculation. Formally, the clinical implications of the pre-existing T cell reactivity remain an open question. “People say you don’t have proof, and they’re right,” says Buggert, adding that the historical blood donor specimens in his study were all anonymised, precluding longitudinal follow-up.
There is the notion that perhaps T cell responses are detrimental and predispose to more severe disease. “I don’t see that as a likely possibility,” Sette said, while emphasising that we still need to acknowledge the possibility. “It’s also possible that this absolutely makes no difference. The cross reactivity is too small or weak to affect the virus. The other outcome is that this does make a difference, that it makes you respond better.”
Weiskopf added, “Right now, I think everything is a possibility; we just don’t know. The reason we’re optimistic is we have seen with other viruses where [the T cell response] actually helps you.” One example is swine flu, where research has shown that people with pre-existing reactive T cells had clinically milder disease (box 1).121314
Weiskopf and Sette maintain that compelling evidence could come through a properly designed prospective study that follows a cohort of people who were enrolled before exposure to SARS-CoV-2, comparing the clinical course of those with and without pre-existing T cell responses.
Understanding the protective value of pre-existing SARS-CoV-2 T cell reactivity “is identical to the situation on vaccines,” said Antonio Bertoletti, professor of infectious disease at Duke-NUS Medical School in Singapore. “Through vaccination we aim to stimulate antibodies and T cell production, and we hope that such induction of immunity will protect … but we need a phase III clinical study to really demonstrate the effect.”
German investigators came to the same conclusion, arguing that their T cell findings represented a “decisive rationale to initiate worldwide prospective studies” mapping pre-existing reactivity to clinical outcomes.31 Other groups have called for the same thing.6
“At the start of the pandemic, a key mantra was that we needed the game changer of antibody data to understand who had been infected and how many were protected,” two immunologists from Imperial College London wrote in a mid-July commentary in Science Immunology. “As we have learned more about this challenging infection, it is time to admit that we really need the T cell data too.”32
Theoretically, the placebo arm of a covid-19 vaccine trial could provide a straightforward way to carry out such a study, by comparing the clinical outcomes of people with versus those without pre-existing T cell reactivity to SARS-CoV-2. A review by The BMJ of all primary and secondary outcome measures being studied in the two large ongoing, placebo controlled phase III trials, however, suggests that no such analysis is being done.3334
Could pre-existing immunity be more protective than future vaccines? Without studying the question, we won’t know.
Acknowledgments
I thank Juan-Andres Leon and Angela Spelsberg for comments on a draft of this article.
Footnotes
Competing interests: I am a colleague of Ulrich Keil, quoted in this article. A generic statement of competing interests may be found at https://www.bmj.com/about-bmj/editorial-staff/peter-doshi
Provenance and peer review: Commissioned; externally peer reviewed.
This article is made freely available for use in accordance with BMJ's website terms and conditions for the duration of the covid-19 pandemic or until otherwise determined by BMJ. You may use, download and print the article for any lawful, non-commercial purpose (including text and data mining) provided that all copyright notices and trade marks are retained.
https://bmj.com/coronavirus/usage
References
↵Rosenberg ES, Tesoriero JM, Rosenthal EM, et al. Cumulative incidence and diagnosis of SARS-CoV-2 infection in New York. Ann Epidemiol2020;48:23-9.e4. .pmid:32648546PubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Public Health England. Sero-surveillance of COVID-19. 2020. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports/sero-surveillance-of-covid-19
↵Pollán M, Pérez-Gómez B, Pastor-Barriuso R, et al., ENE-COVID Study Group. Prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 in Spain (ENE-COVID): a nationwide, population-based seroepidemiological study. Lancet2020;396:535-44. .pmid:32645347CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵CDC. Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). 2020 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html
↵Grifoni A, Weiskopf D, Ramirez SI, et al. Targets of T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus in humans with COVID-19 disease and unexposed individuals. Cell2020;181:1489-1501.e15. .pmid:32473127CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Ng K, Faulkner N, Cornish G, Rosa A, Earl C, Wrobel A, et al. Pre-existing and de novo humoral immunity to SARS-CoV-2 in humans [preprint]. BioRxiv. 2020. doi:10.1101/2020.05.14.095414.Abstract/FREE Full TextGoogle Scholar
↵Weiskopf D, Schmitz KS, Raadsen MP, Grifoni A, Okba NMA, Endeman H, et al. Phenotype of SARS-CoV-2-specific T-cells in COVID-19 patients with acute respiratory distress syndrome [preprint]. MedRxiv 2020. doi:10.1101/2020.04.11.20062349.Abstract/FREE Full TextGoogle Scholar
↵Le Bert N, Tan AT, Kunasegaran K, et al. SARS-CoV-2-specific T cell immunity in cases of COVID-19 and SARS, and uninfected controls. Nature2020;584:457-62. . doi:10.1038/s41586-020-2550-z pmid:32668444CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Meckiff BJ, Ramírez-Suástegui C, Fajardo V, et al. Single-cell transcriptomic analysis of SARS-CoV-2 reactive CD4 + T cells. bioRxiv2020:2020.06.12.148916. doi:10.1101/2020.06.12.148916. pmid:32587963CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Sekine T, Perez-Potti A, Rivera-Ballesteros O, et al. Robust T cell immunity in convalescent individuals with asymptomatic or mild COVID-19 [preprint]. 2020 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.29.174888v1.abstract.
↵Sette A, Crotty S. Pre-existing immunity to SARS-CoV-2: the knowns and unknowns. Nat Rev Immunol2020;20:457-8. . doi:10.1038/s41577-020-0389-z pmid:32636479CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Greenbaum JA, Kotturi MF, Kim Y, et al. Pre-existing immunity against swine-origin H1N1 influenza viruses in the general human population. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A2009;106:20365-70. . doi:10.1073/pnas.0911580106 pmid:19918065Abstract/FREE Full TextGoogle Scholar
↵Sridhar S, Begom S, Bermingham A, et al. Cellular immune correlates of protection against symptomatic pandemic influenza. Nat Med2013;19:1305-12. . doi:10.1038/nm.3350 pmid:24056771CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Wilkinson TM, Li CKF, Chui CSC, et al. Preexisting influenza-specific CD4+ T cells correlate with disease protection against influenza challenge in humans. Nat Med2012;18:274-80. . doi:10.1038/nm.2612 pmid:22286307CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Serum cross-reactive antibody response to a novel influenza A (H1N1) virus after vaccination with seasonal influenza vaccine. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep2009;58:521-4. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19478718.pmid:19478718PubMedGoogle Scholar
↵World Health Organization. Ten things you need to know about pandemic influenza. 2005. http://web.archive.org/web/20081208145210/www.who.int/csr/disease/influenza/pandemic10things/en.
↵Considerations for assessing the severity of an influenza pandemic. Wkly Epidemiol Rec2009;84(22):197-202.PubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Mateus J, Grifoni A, Tarke A, et al. Selective and cross-reactive SARS-CoV-2 T cell epitopes in unexposed humans. Science2020. . doi:10.1126/science.abd3871 pmid:32753554AbstractGoogle Scholar
↵Rosenberg ES, Tesoriero JM, Rosenthal EM, et al. Cumulative incidence and diagnosis of SARS-CoV-2 infection in New York [preprint]. medRxiv. 2020. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.25.20113050v1.
↵Fine P, Eames K, Heymann DL. “Herd immunity”: a rough guide[Internet]. Clin Infect Dis2011;52:911-6. . doi:10.1093/cid/cir007 pmid:21427399CrossRefPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar
↵Fox JP, Elveback L, Scott W, Gatewood L, Ackerman E. Herd immunity: basic concept and relevance to public health immunization practices. Am J Epidemiol1971;94:179-89. . doi:10.1093/oxfordjournals.aje.a121310 pmid:5093648CrossRefPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar
↵Aguas R, Corder RM, King JG, Goncalves G, Ferreira MU, Gomes MGM. Herd immunity thresholds for SARS-CoV-2 estimated from unfolding epidemics [preprint]. medRxiv. 2020. https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.07.23.20160762.
↵Gomes MGM, Corder RM, King JG, Langwig KE, Souto-Maior C, Carneiro J, et al. Individual variation in susceptibility or exposure to SARS-CoV-2 lowers the herd immunity threshold [preprint]. MedRxiv. 2 May 2020. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.20081893v3.
↵Lourenco J, Pinotti F, Thompson C, Gupta S. The impact of host resistance on cumulative mortality and the threshold of herd immunity for SARS-CoV-2 [preprint]. medRxiv. 2020. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20154294v1.
↵Welsh RM, Selin LK. No one is naive: the significance of heterologous T-cell immunity. Nat Rev Immunol2002;2:417-26. . doi:10.1038/nri820 pmid:12093008CrossRefPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar
↵Habib H. Has Sweden’s controversial covid-19 strategy been successful?BMJ2020;369:m2376. . doi:10.1136/bmj.m2376 pmid:32532807FREE Full TextGoogle Scholar
↵Gallais F, Velay A, Wendling M-J, et al. Intrafamilial exposure to SARS-CoV-2 induces cellular immune response without seroconversion [preprint]. MedRxiv 2020. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.21.20132449v1.
↵Long Q-X, Tang X-J, Shi Q-L, et al. Clinical and immunological assessment of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections. Nat Med2020;26:1200-4. . doi:10.1038/s41591-020-0965-6 pmid:32555424CrossRefPubMedGoogle Scholar
↵Mandavilli A. You may have antibodies after coronavirus infection. But not for long. New York Times. 2020 Jun 18. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/health/coronavirus-antibodies.html
↵Seow J, Graham C, Merrick B, Acors S, Steel KJA, Hemmings O, et al. Longitudinal evaluation and decline of antibody responses in SARS-CoV-2 infection preprint. MedRxiv. 2020. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.09.20148429v1.
↵Braun J, Loyal L, Frentsch M, Wendisch D, Georg P, Kurth F, et al. Presence of SARS-CoV-2 reactive T cells in COVID-19 patients and healthy donors [preprint]. MedRxiv 2020. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17.20061440v1.
↵Altmann DM, Boyton RJ. SARS-CoV-2 T cell immunity: Specificity, function, durability, and role in protection. Sci Immunol2020;5:eabd6160. doi:10.1126/sciimmunol.abd6160 pmid:32680954Abstract/FREE Full TextGoogle Scholar
↵A study to evaluate efficacy, safety, and immunogenicity of mRNA-1273 vaccine in adults aged 18 years and older to prevent COVID-19. 2020 Aug 19. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427.
↵Study to describe the safety, tolerability, immunogenicity, and efficacy of RNA vaccine candidates against COVID-19 in healthy adults. 2020. https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728
View Abstract
"
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563
1241
porkchopXpress
2021 May 8, 10:03am
porkchopXpress
2021 May 8, 10:03am
ThreeBays says
If the vaccine were 100% safe, I'd be more inclined to just get it. Keeping the immune system activated artificially? That sounds like a recipe for developing auto-immune disease or hyper-active immune response. No thanks, I'll trust what nature gave me vs a science experiment.
Second, regarding your statement, I think to be more accurate, SOME % of people that had CV or cold infections have long term immunity. But it's not 100%, and nobody can predict who has and has not. That's also why Polio requires 3 or 4 shots. It's about having a high degree of certainty of long protection in most people.
Third, it's about keeping immunity activated. We have active systems (antibodies & CD8+ T-cells in the blood) that attack the virus immediately. A high level of antibodies sterilizes viruses - this is how you avoid infection completely. Over time those active systems wane and we lose that "sterilizing" ability so can still get re-infected and be infectious.
If the vaccine were 100% safe, I'd be more inclined to just get it. Keeping the immune system activated artificially? That sounds like a recipe for developing auto-immune disease or hyper-active immune response. No thanks, I'll trust what nature gave me vs a science experiment.
1242
Robert Sproul
2021 May 8, 10:23am
Onvacation says
John Ioannidis was one of the most published and influential scientists in the world. Then he began to critique the global response to Covid and the media and his profession largely turned against him.
Here is an article from a decade ago that should knock some of the hubris out of the Scientism Worshiping Vaccine Crusaders.
To reiterate the highlight of the quote:
*He charges that as much as 90 percent of the published medical information that doctors rely on is flawed*
“That question has been central to Ioannidis’s career. He’s what’s known as a meta-researcher, and he’s become one of the world’s foremost experts on the credibility of medical research. He and his team have shown, again and again, and in many different ways, that much of what biomedical researchers conclude in published studies—conclusions that doctors keep in mind when they prescribe antibiotics or blood-pressure medication, or when they advise us to consume more fiber or less meat, or when they recommend surgery for heart disease or back pain—is misleading, exaggerated, and often flat-out wrong. He charges that as much as 90 percent of the published medical information that doctors rely on is flawed.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/308269/
So you pulled it out of your ass.
John Ioannidis was one of the most published and influential scientists in the world. Then he began to critique the global response to Covid and the media and his profession largely turned against him.
Here is an article from a decade ago that should knock some of the hubris out of the Scientism Worshiping Vaccine Crusaders.
To reiterate the highlight of the quote:
*He charges that as much as 90 percent of the published medical information that doctors rely on is flawed*
“That question has been central to Ioannidis’s career. He’s what’s known as a meta-researcher, and he’s become one of the world’s foremost experts on the credibility of medical research. He and his team have shown, again and again, and in many different ways, that much of what biomedical researchers conclude in published studies—conclusions that doctors keep in mind when they prescribe antibiotics or blood-pressure medication, or when they advise us to consume more fiber or less meat, or when they recommend surgery for heart disease or back pain—is misleading, exaggerated, and often flat-out wrong. He charges that as much as 90 percent of the published medical information that doctors rely on is flawed.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/308269/
1243
Onvacation
2021 May 8, 10:40am
Onvacation
2021 May 8, 10:40am
porkchopexpress says
EXACTLY!
What the fuck is wrong with these people trying to get every man, woman, and child to take a jab of an experimental biologic agent that at best will make our symptoms "not as bad" if we catch a cold that most "sufferers" don't even know they have " a case" until they take a test?
Personally I have a strong immune system and if I catch a virus there are multiple remedies.
If you want your shot take your shot. Just because you volunteered to be part of this vast experiment does not mean everyone has to go along with you.
. No thanks, I'll trust what nature gave me vs a science experiment.
EXACTLY!
What the fuck is wrong with these people trying to get every man, woman, and child to take a jab of an experimental biologic agent that at best will make our symptoms "not as bad" if we catch a cold that most "sufferers" don't even know they have " a case" until they take a test?
Personally I have a strong immune system and if I catch a virus there are multiple remedies.
If you want your shot take your shot. Just because you volunteered to be part of this vast experiment does not mean everyone has to go along with you.
1244
Onvacation
2021 May 8, 10:44am
Onvacation
2021 May 8, 10:44am
ThreeBays says
The Wuhan was overblown. On March 13 2020 we were told that we...
I just realized I have much better things to do than argue with a troll.
Then what he did was get ahead of his research to claim COVID was overblown
The Wuhan was overblown. On March 13 2020 we were told that we...
I just realized I have much better things to do than argue with a troll.
1245
Robert Sproul
2021 May 8, 10:54am
Onvacation says
Just a little over a hundred years ago they would have charged you a buck and bled you into a bucket with the same hubristic confidence. And called it science.
What the fuck is wrong with these people trying to get every man, woman, and child to take a jab of an experimental biologic agent that at best will make our symptoms "not as bad" if we catch a cold that most "sufferers" don't even know they have " a case" until they take a test?
Just a little over a hundred years ago they would have charged you a buck and bled you into a bucket with the same hubristic confidence. And called it science.
1246
Bd6r
2021 May 8, 11:01am
Bd6r
2021 May 8, 11:01am
Onvacation says
If you are afraid of covid and believe that vaccine helps, take a shot. This will (allegedly) protect you from covid and you should not be in danger from unvaxxed masses. By the same logic, you should have no power to force anyone else than you to vaccinate - if vaccine works, it protects you and if someone wants to get covid and die, it is none of your damned business.
If you want your shot take your shot. Just because you volunteered to be part of this vast experiment does not mean everyone has to go along with you.
If you are afraid of covid and believe that vaccine helps, take a shot. This will (allegedly) protect you from covid and you should not be in danger from unvaxxed masses. By the same logic, you should have no power to force anyone else than you to vaccinate - if vaccine works, it protects you and if someone wants to get covid and die, it is none of your damned business.
1247
Shaman
2021 May 8, 11:05am
Shaman
2021 May 8, 11:05am
ThreeBays says
I prefer the natural route. Eat right, get exercise, and don’t introduce too many toxins to your system. Also don’t be morbidly obese. If you can’t manage these basics, Mother Nature will weed your ass out one way or another. Maybe you’ll miss Covid but die of a heart attack or the effects of diabetes or cancer or whatever. There are tens of thousands of diseases that will pick off the unhealthy. Covid is just one of those. Why all the concern?
Vaccination is the route because we're able to conduct the science to estimate how protected people are with N doses, and it's scalable.
I prefer the natural route. Eat right, get exercise, and don’t introduce too many toxins to your system. Also don’t be morbidly obese. If you can’t manage these basics, Mother Nature will weed your ass out one way or another. Maybe you’ll miss Covid but die of a heart attack or the effects of diabetes or cancer or whatever. There are tens of thousands of diseases that will pick off the unhealthy. Covid is just one of those. Why all the concern?
1248
Robert Sproul
2021 May 8, 12:38pm
ThreeBays says
I don't know, I don't have too much trouble cyphering out what a 1 in 400 fatality rate means to me.
Among the minority of the population that contracts the virus.
And then accounting for my general good health and normal BMI.
I feel like I have a pretty good handle on it.
People underestimating risk to themselves is also a fact
I don't know, I don't have too much trouble cyphering out what a 1 in 400 fatality rate means to me.
Among the minority of the population that contracts the virus.
And then accounting for my general good health and normal BMI.
I feel like I have a pretty good handle on it.
1249
Shaman
2021 May 8, 1:36pm
Shaman
2021 May 8, 1:36pm
ThreeBays says
True. Being male is a hazard for Covid. Has something to do with the ACE2 receptors and testosterone. Having male pattern baldness increases that risk by another doubling. But it’s all just a risk. I have taken far greater risks for my entire life and nothing has punched my ticket yet. My job is also inherently risky, and driving on the freeway is also risky. Risk management is what is the issue. Are you choosing the proper path via risk management? Or is the risk mitigation you’re pursuing exposing you to greater risk than you’re trying to avoid?
I feel like the vaccine is marginally more risky (with long term effects completely unknown) than the risk of contracting Covid in my risk category. The long term effects being totally unknown is the deciding factor for me.
Did you know the hazard ratio for being male is greater than being obese class 2?
True. Being male is a hazard for Covid. Has something to do with the ACE2 receptors and testosterone. Having male pattern baldness increases that risk by another doubling. But it’s all just a risk. I have taken far greater risks for my entire life and nothing has punched my ticket yet. My job is also inherently risky, and driving on the freeway is also risky. Risk management is what is the issue. Are you choosing the proper path via risk management? Or is the risk mitigation you’re pursuing exposing you to greater risk than you’re trying to avoid?
I feel like the vaccine is marginally more risky (with long term effects completely unknown) than the risk of contracting Covid in my risk category. The long term effects being totally unknown is the deciding factor for me.
1250
Robert Sproul
2021 May 8, 2:18pm
ThreeBays says
It seems to me that humans must have evolved to be able to very accurately evaluate the risks to them. How could it be otherwise?
Maybe they discount risk somewhat, associated with testosterone no doubt, in order to go ahead and get some shit done.
When I look around me, not knowing one person that has had a bad, let alone fatal, time with this bug, I just don’t see much risk. I think our perception of hazard has been created solely by a media that has been shown to be biased 97% to negative Covid coverage.
People underestimating risk to themselves is also a fact
It seems to me that humans must have evolved to be able to very accurately evaluate the risks to them. How could it be otherwise?
Maybe they discount risk somewhat, associated with testosterone no doubt, in order to go ahead and get some shit done.
When I look around me, not knowing one person that has had a bad, let alone fatal, time with this bug, I just don’t see much risk. I think our perception of hazard has been created solely by a media that has been shown to be biased 97% to negative Covid coverage.
1252
Robert Sproul
2021 May 8, 3:20pm
How the Hell do the Scientism Worshiping Vaccine Crusaders just discount Pfizers criminal history?
1253
Booger
2021 May 8, 4:48pm
Booger
2021 May 8, 4:48pm
Robert Sproul says
Mainstream media didn't tell them about this.
How the Hell do the Scientism Worshiping Vaccine Crusaders just discount Pfizers criminal history?
Mainstream media didn't tell them about this.
1254
porkchopXpress
2021 May 8, 4:55pm
porkchopXpress
2021 May 8, 4:55pm
Immediate Use of Ivermectin Medicine Globally Can End COVID-19 Pandemic: Scientists
https://weather.com/en-IN/india/coronavirus/news/2021-05-08-use-of-ivermectin-medicine-globally-can-end-covid-19-pandemic
That's right folks, science.
https://weather.com/en-IN/india/coronavirus/news/2021-05-08-use-of-ivermectin-medicine-globally-can-end-covid-19-pandemic
That's right folks, science.
1257
Booger
2021 May 8, 5:18pm
Booger
2021 May 8, 5:18pm
Bombshell Salk Institute science paper reveals the covid spike protein is what’s causing deadly blood clots… and it’s in all the covid vaccines (by design)
https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-05-07-salk-institute-reveals-the-covid-spike-protein-causing-deadly-blood-clots.html#
https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-05-07-salk-institute-reveals-the-covid-spike-protein-causing-deadly-blood-clots.html#
1259
Booger
2021 May 8, 5:31pm
Booger
2021 May 8, 5:31pm
https://archive.ph/BoH9O
Look, I’m safe’: New wristband broadcasts COVID vaccination status to make others feel better
Look, I’m safe’: New wristband broadcasts COVID vaccination status to make others feel better
1260
Booger
2021 May 9, 8:11am
Booger
2021 May 9, 8:11am
The fact that there is so much censorship about vaccine adverse actions implies that the side affects are really bad.
1261
Onvacation
2021 May 9, 10:26am
Onvacation
2021 May 9, 10:26am
ThreeBays says
OK.
So you don't think the government wants to inject everyone with the experimental biologic agent? Who do they want to Jab?
Do you think the jab confers immunity?
What do you mean when you say,
ThreeBays says
Not expecting cogent answers.
You really have to ask yourself, Why does the government want every man, woman, and child to get injected with an experimental biologic agent for a cold that is asymptomatic or has minor symptoms for most? AND they are trying to pass it off as a "safe and effective vaccine" when it has caused many deaths and injuries, does not confer immunity, and will not stop you from spreading the disease.
Something nefarious is going on above and beyond all the nefarious stuff that is going on all the time.
The opposite of everything you wrote is true
OK.
So you don't think the government wants to inject everyone with the experimental biologic agent? Who do they want to Jab?
Do you think the jab confers immunity?
What do you mean when you say,
ThreeBays says
The opposite of everything you wrote is true
Not expecting cogent answers.
1267
RWSGFY
2021 May 10, 8:32am
RWSGFY
2021 May 10, 8:32am
Onvacation says
The phrase we never hear wrt "covid victims".
Of course, "They were going to die any way!"
The phrase we never hear wrt "covid victims".
1268
NDrLoR
2021 May 10, 8:49am
NDrLoR
2021 May 10, 8:49am
Onvacation says
A SAMPLING OF VAXTIMSThat haunting tune, Clair de Lune, is from a movie but I can't think of its title.
1271
Ceffer
2021 May 10, 5:50pm
Ceffer
2021 May 10, 5:50pm
Gates, Klaus, Charles and Warren: "It's not killing them fast enough! More spike proteins! They CAN'T outbreed our vaccines!"
1275
Booger
2021 May 10, 6:32pm
Booger
2021 May 10, 6:32pm
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/italy-covid-vaccine-woman-six-doses-distracted-nurse-pfizer-shot-tuscany/
Distracted nurse gives woman 6 doses of COVID vaccine in a single shot
Distracted nurse gives woman 6 doses of COVID vaccine in a single shot
1276
RWSGFY
2021 May 10, 8:05pm
RWSGFY
2021 May 10, 8:05pm
Booger says
Who said forging a vax card was not worth it?
Free beer!
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-jersey-covid-vaccine-beer-shot/
Who said forging a vax card was not worth it?
1277
Onvacation
2021 May 10, 10:38pm
Onvacation
2021 May 10, 10:38pm
JAB LAUNCH VS AVERAGE DEATH PER MILLION PEOPLE
I have been hearing about a lot of grandparents dying lately.
I have been hearing about a lot of grandparents dying lately.
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I know a few and they sound like absolute shit, and both feel like absolute crap.
Anyone else?
Why the fuck are people injecting themselves with a non-FDA approved biological agent?
And what the fuck are people afraid of, when this covid has a 99.97% survival rate?
I don't understand this level of retardedness... Or maybe I am just super, over the top, fucking retarded, that I can't understand this shit.