patrick.net

I like this idea, but don't know the answer.

CO2, even after all the fossil fuel burning, is still just a trace element in the atmosphere. And whenever CO2 concentrations are higher, plants grow faster to take advantage of the extra gas they use as building material. Thus a feedback loop that would keep the C12/C14 ratios constant.

I question why fossil fuels do not contain C14. After all, the oil/coal/gas is just carbon taken from the atmosphere long ago, and should contain the same ratio of C12/C14 that was in the air at the time.

The fact that carbon dioxide levels have gone up dramatically isn’t in dispute. What is in question is how much effect that has had on the globe.

HeadSet says

After all, the oil/coal/gas is just carbon taken from the atmosphere long ago, and should contain the same ratio of C12/C14 that was in the air at the time.

I think the mechanism is that one isotope gets produced in the upper atmosphere, but it isn't stable. When the CO2 is underground, that isotope decays over time. So you can then tell which things have been underground, and for how long.

Shaman says

The fact that carbon dioxide levels have gone up dramatically isn’t in dispute. What is in question is how much effect that has had on the globe.

Dramatically? From what to what? "Percent Increase" always sensationalizes small numbers, so what ppm are they saying the increase is?

The first image is from NASA.
The second is a photo I took in the LA Museum of Natural History.

Interesting. It went up 100 ppm since 1950. I am really skeptical of the rest of that chart, as to how anyone could reliably know what atmospheric CO2 levels were at points in time dating back 800,000 years.

HeadSet says

CO2, even after all the fossil fuel burning, is still just a trace element in the atmosphere. And whenever CO2 concentrations are higher, plants grow faster to take advantage of the extra gas they use as building material. Thus a feedback loop that would keep the C12/C14 ratios constant.

I question why fossil fuels do not contain C14. After all, the oil/coal/gas is just carbon taken from the atmosphere long ago, and should contain the same ratio of C12/C14 that was in the air at the time.

C14, as far as I know (and have read), is exclusively created in the upper atmosphere. You start with nitrogen, isotope 14 - it's hit by a neutron, and a proton is ejected, and you end up with C14 which will decay in time. You'd need not only a neutron in an oil deposit but nitrogen to create C14 there. There should be no, or nearly no C14 in an oil deposit.

The amount of C14 production is roughly constant (I believe that's an axiom), but the claim of global warming is that the amount of CO2 is increasing.

When C14 is created, it becomes carbon monoxide, and that quickly becomes carbon dioxide and it it thought to thoroughly mix with the atmosphere in less than 10 years.

I'm pretty certain that this has been overlooked, although I didn't find this flaw in the claims. Somebody less knowledgeable than I am about science pointed this out, and I spent a couple days thinking about it, and finally, I think he's right. I was too stupid to think of this myself.

HeadSet says

CO2, even after all the fossil fuel burning, is still just a trace element in the atmosphere. And whenever CO2 concentrations are higher, plants grow faster to take advantage of the extra gas they use as building material. Thus a feedback loop that would keep the C12/C14 ratios constant.

I question why fossil fuels do not contain C14. After all, the oil/coal/gas is just carbon taken from the atmosphere long ago, and should contain the same ratio of C12/C14 that was in the air at the time.

That doesn't matter, most of a plant is water, than hydrocarbons. There's a lot of carbon in any organism.

The ratio should be changing, I think. I'll do more research, and I might be able to talk to a geologist about this who specialized in oil discovery - or claimed to. Might be hard to contact him.

Shaman says

The first image is from NASA.
The second is a photo I took in the LA Museum of Natural History.

If that graph is correct, we should see a huge change in carbon dating. Current organisms should have far lower C14 levels than they would before 1700. C14 has about a 1/2 life of 5,000 years, more than 25% of the CO2 in the atmosphere - if it's from fossil fuels, would be C12, not C14.