patrick.net

@DonewithDebate

Sure, people are now more hardened into their positions.

Fortunately, we have Biden imposing jab mandates that he said he would not, and his disaster in Afghanistan, and driving up gasoline prices, etc etc.

Biden is the best cure for TDS that I've seen so far.

But maybe you're talking about the issues in India. I don't have much opinion about all that because I don't really know what goes on there.

Maybe America should split into two, one for liberals and one for conservatives.

It already is, in fact, because the big cities and the coasts are generally liberal, and all the rest is conservative.

Patrick says

Maybe America should split into two, one for liberals and one for conservatives.

People will find something else to bitch about after that.

Patrick says

Same everywhere.
Problem solving and making life better is least of priority for people.

Liberal and conservatives can have good debate and disagree about the "level of government".
Extreme righities want to "drown govt in bathtub" and extreme Lefties accept nothing below "communism". These extremes are eating up middle very fast.

.. There is no scope of debate between above groups.
COVID, Lockdowns etc. are basically a proxy for above fight. The win is not betterment of American public(Which is always debatable middle path) but decimation of other side.

Same everywhere.
Problem solving and making life better is least of priority for people.

Liberal and conservatives can have good debate and disagree about the "level of government".
Extreme righities want to "drown govt in bathtub" and extreme Lefties accept nothing below "communism". These extremes are eating up middle very fast.

.. There is no scope of debate between above groups.
COVID, Lockdowns etc. are basically a proxy for above fight. The win is not betterment of American public(Which is always debatable middle path) but decimation of other side.

I remember talking about this with a co-worker about three years ago. People seem to hold positions based solely on feelings now days. And there has certainly been a rise in extreme viewpoints, many of them propagated by mainstream media and central government. And then there's the reactions to those viewpoints, especially when there's talk of violating people's God given rights of autonomy, basic freedom of movement, and right to choose what we put on our bodies. Extremist views will create backlashes, that can also be extreme, especially if you start corning people and giving them little option for recourse other than bloodshed.

But you should never compare online discourse with in-person conversation. In person, I rarely find anyone espousing viewpoints as extreme as what I hear in the new, from politicians, or online. Why? Because that stuff is bullshit philosophizing, and has no realistic application. The times it's tried always end in disaster(Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Lincoln).

Remember, most of us want the same things in life, the same freedoms, and the same opportunities. For ourselves, and those around us. Make the world you want, don't wait for someone else to do it for you.

NuttBoxer says

most of us want the same things in life, the same freedoms

I wish I could say that is true, but our leftist fellow citizens do not want the same freedoms. They are very often opposed to freedom of speech now, and opposed to freedom from mandatory injections and masks.

And opposed to the freedom to own a gun.

Patrick says

NuttBoxer says

most of us want the same things in life, the same freedoms

I wish I could say that is true, but our leftist fellow citizens do not want the same freedoms. They are very often opposed to freedom of speech now, and opposed to freedom from mandatory injections and masks.

And opposed to the freedom to own a gun.

Agreed. Many people on the right or middle (libertarian) would be happy to talk and potentially compromise once the direct threats on their life and liberty have been removed. It's a cop out to say nobody wants to talk or compromise. But we have to thwart those direct leftoid threats first, it's a precondition to get rid of this Mengele shit.

Patrick says

I wish I could say that is true, but our leftist fellow citizens do not want the same freedoms. They are very often opposed to freedom of speech now, and opposed to freedom from mandatory injections and masks.

Leftists want a technocracy based on their Liberal Arts education and a bunch of bromides on science - which they immediately violate if it goes against deeply held beliefs like 100% Nurture/Cultural.

Leftists are even willing to abandon their former skepticism of Big Pharma Bullshit so long as it is laundered through a Big Government Science-y Agency run by revolving door executives from Big Pharma.

Or, the "Corporate Media" is now best buddies to the Left since it is now deep captured by them and spouts only their propaganda - with inconvenient "Facts" being censored as "Misleading" as it leads away from conclusions they prefer.

MisdemeanorRebellionNoCoupForYou says

Patrick says

I wish I could say that is true, but our leftist fellow citizens do not want the same freedoms. They are very often opposed to freedom of speech now, and opposed to freedom from mandatory injections and masks.

Leftists want a technocracy based on their Liberal Arts education and a bunch of bromides on science - which they immediately violate if it goes against deeply held beliefs like 100% Nurture/Cultural.

Leftists are even willing to abandon their former skepticism of Big Pharma Bullshit so long as it is laundered through a Big Government Science-y Agency run by revolving door executives from Big Pharma.

Or, the "Corporate Media" is now best buddies to the Left since it is now deep captured by them and spouts only their propaganda - with inconvenient "Facts" being censored as "Misleading" as it leads away from conclusions they prefer.

I think human welfare or common good take back seat to "winning at any cost".
Its been years we had any good leaders.
Opposition to dangerous lefty positions made Trump good in many areas, But he had no skills to unite country for common good either.
We need honest centrist leaders.

DonewithDebate says

I think human welfare or common good take back seat to "winning at any cost".
Its been years we had any good leaders.
Opposition to dangerous lefty positions made Trump good in many areas, But he had no skills to unite country for common good either.
We need honest centrist leaders.

The solution is smaller states. We should shoot for 500 nations.

DonewithDebate says

We need honest centrist leaders.

The potential "centrist" leaders will be subjected to the rayscyst game by the retard marxist leftoids, and being the "nice" uniting centrists they are they will denounce and apologize and the leftoids will pounce immediately and corner them so they won't win a single election. Trump was necessary. Maybe he was brash and not the most skilled orator, but we need to double down on Trumps confrontational, zero fucks given skills, because before as long as the leftoids don't drop the Alinsky game they don't deserve to be united with anyone, but they need to be kept far away from the rest of society, maybe in their own ecosystem. So that we can return to sanity and individual liberties

DonewithDebate says

@patrick based on this site and free speech you offer(Without censorship). One of the biggest problem I see that almost nobody is willing to change these days.. All have their prejudiced opinions.

Unfortunately "debate" is dead based on research I did.

By research you mean what exactly? At least show your research and not just write clickbait style headline opinions.

"According to my research mice can chew gum and blow bubbles" - no details.... that's not research, that's an opinion.

MisdemeanorRebellionNoCoupForYou says

Leftists are even willing to abandon their former skepticism of Big Pharma Bullshit so long as it is laundered through a Big Government Science-y Agency run by revolving door executives from Big Pharma.

Right, the transformation is complete now.

Leftists have become exactly what they claimed to hate: corporate-owned fascists.

And they don't even catch on to the hilarious irony of it all.

Patrick says

I wish I could say that is true, but our leftist fellow citizens do not want the same freedoms. They are very often opposed to freedom of speech now, and opposed to freedom from mandatory injections and masks.

And opposed to the freedom to own a gun.

Let me first state for anyone's who's not aware, I don't believe in false paradigms. Left/Right, you've all supported immoral policies, and human rights violations at some point because your side told you to.

I do have a few friends who definitely lean left. They've never said the shot should be forced, or masks, and one of them owns a gun. Remember, crazy isn't left or right, it's just crazy.

NuttBoxer says

Patrick says

I wish I could say that is true, but our leftist fellow citizens do not want the same freedoms. They are very often opposed to freedom of speech now, and opposed to freedom from mandatory injections and masks.

And opposed to the freedom to own a gun.

Let me first state for anyone's who's not aware, I don't believe in false paradigms. Left/Right, you've all supported immoral policies, and human rights violations at some point because your side told you to.

I do have a few friends who definitely lean left. They've never said the shot should be forced, or masks, and one of them owns a gun. Remember, crazy isn't left or right, it's just crazy.

It's never supposed to be a team sport but it can be used as a rough gauge of where one currently stands. "Leaning left" right now while still advocating for personal freedoms is like being a member of the nsdap or the khmer rouge back then but advocating for jews/opponents to choose whether they want to be slaughtered or not. Sure the right had its "unfree" darker times but this is unrivaled.

mell says

but this is unrivaled.

The War on Us(war on drugs) brought us mandatory minimums, incarceration for non-violent crimes that affected no one, made substance abuse a crime, created a black market that has killed millions, gave us no-knock raids, asset forfeiture, Cartels that can compete with the military, turned countries into failed Narco states, and set the precedent for mandating what can be done to someone else's body.

The right laid the groundwork, every fucking brick.

The problem is not right or left, it is big government. Government should make sure that liberty is preserved at all costs, that includes braking up cartels and monopolies when they exist. Instead the monopolies and cartels have used government (big government) to consolidate their power.

This is why right vs left is meaningless. It is also why we can’t trust the government, it is being run by the people who it is supposed to defend us against!

Exhibit A:

NuttBoxer says

I do have a few friends who definitely lean left. They've never said the shot should be forced, or masks, and one of them owns a gun. Remember, crazy isn't left or right, it's just crazy

If they vote for the Leftist assholes who mandate the clot shot, then they’re for the mandate and for the corporate fascist take-over of America. They’re just too dumb to realize what they’re doing.

NuttBoxer says

mell says

but this is unrivaled.

The War on Us(war on drugs) brought us mandatory minimums, incarceration for non-violent crimes that affected no one, made substance abuse a crime, created a black market that has killed millions, gave us no-knock raids, asset forfeiture, Cartels that can compete with the military, turned countries into failed Narco states, and set the precedent for mandating what can be done to someone else's body.

The right laid the groundwork, every fucking brick.

The war on drugs was shameful but there was an easy solution: DONT DO DRUGS! Sure it's an infringement on personal liberty but compared to forced mengele style inoculations the war on drugs is a walk in the park! The right did not lay the groundwork for experimentation on humans and genocide. The left did.

NuttBoxer says

mell says

but this is unrivaled.

The War on Us(war on drugs) brought us mandatory minimums, incarceration for non-violent crimes that affected no one, made substance abuse a crime, created a black market that has killed millions, gave us no-knock raids, asset forfeiture, Cartels that can compete with the military, turned countries into failed Narco states, and set the precedent for mandating what can be done to someone else's body.

The right laid the groundwork, every fucking brick.

Interesting comment.

mell says

The war on drugs was shameful but there was an easy solution: DONT DO DRUGS! Sure it's an infringement on personal liberty but compared to forced mengele style inoculations the war on drugs is a walk in the park! The right did not lay the groundwork for experimentation on humans and genocide. The left did.

No fan of the war on drugs. But yeah, this vaccination mandate shit is exponentially different. We're at the point people HAVE to vaccinate to keep food on the table for their family. That's not right. Vaccines are a drug. They're politicians that approve this shit. Anyone in the CDC or FDA probably has't practiced medicine in decades yet decide what you put in your body.

WookieMan says

But yeah, this vaccination mandate shit is exponentially different. We're at the point people HAVE to vaccinate to keep food on the table for their family. That's not right.

No it’s not right, it is horrendously wrong. Even if the vaxx were safe (they aren’t) It is a violation of essential human rights. And a dangerous omen just how close we are to this:
“And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark”

It started with smoking bans. If you don't want to be exposed to smoke, don't eat or work there.

Smoking is an insult to people around you, and to compare mandatory vaxxination to smoke free zones is like comparing Aushwitz to gun free zones.