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Adam? Is this you?
Lifeforms aren't an "exception" to entropy, they are entropy ENGINES that decrease or slow their own entropy by throughputting increased entropy upon the environment. Under this construct, we increase the entropy of forests for shelter to live longer, and increase the entropy of cows and pigs to address the entropy of our own energy stores.
Since there is Life, the entropy of the Universe is delayed and slowed down.
It would also be an exception to entropy, since life gets more organized and complex over time
I don't believe you think personal experience is the only way to know something right?
MisdemeanorRebellionNoCoupForYou saysIt would also be an exception to entropy, since life gets more organized and complex over time
It's not a problem as long as more energy keeps coming in.
The relevant law of thermodynamics says that a closed system tends to disorder. But increasing order is entirely possible in a system which has a continuous input of energy.
The physics and mathematics of the universe support life. Perfect systems like this don't just happen.
But mention God and Jesus or a higher power, otherwise known as a creator. And they just shut the whole conversation down. They wont have any of it.
I understand that not all religious people are like this, but I've known some pretty horrific people who wore religion on their sleeve. It was a shield for how fucking awful they were. If those fuckers are in the same after life I am, I'd rather not be there.
I understand that not all religious people are like this, but I've known some pretty horrific people who wore religion on their sleeve.
B.A.C.A.H. saysThe physics and mathematics of the universe support life. Perfect systems like this don't just happen.
Not to get into this argument (again, which I've had countless times before), but are you saying an all powerful, omnipotent, omniscient thinking creature "just happened", but this largely lifeless seemingly infinite, non sentient, universe couldn't "just happen"?
The contradiction in thinking is I think obvious. God is the most perfect system conceivable.
The only thing I got out of arguing religion was frustration, and an understanding of logical fallacies. I think this falls under "special pleading".
It takes Faith to believe either creationism or the Big Bang. How about this...If evolution is real, how is it that nothing ever becomes something else? As in, how come a turtle never turns into an elephant? Evolution is: like morphs into like. It never becomes something entirely different. No?
If what we have around is real, then I have just one issue with evolution: I can't explain how was first life created, even though I am familiar with so-called "prebiotic chemistry" and chemistry of DNA and RNA rather well. After first living bacteria everything is very easy to explain. But it is impossible to explain how very unstable molecules such as (initially) RNA and then DNA were formed and started self-replicating. They rapidly fall apart in lab if you synthesize them and leave them in elements...
Well, one lifeform won't change into an existing lifeform. You must be aware this is a canard. Evolution doesn't predict a dog can become a cat. It predicts that species will adapt to their environment over time, and there's many solutions for adapting to that environment.
richwicks saysWell, one lifeform won't change into an existing lifeform. You must be aware this is a canard. Evolution doesn't predict a dog can become a cat. It predicts that species will adapt to their environment over time, and there's many solutions for adapting to that environment.
The issue is that a multitude of new forms with very little relationship to other creatures nearby in space and time.
Where did that information come from?
The horse is all very good, but how did plankton become trilobites?
The fossil record is far from complete as the textbooks say; it's mostly missing, particularly around key periods like the Cambrian Explosion, which Darwin himself identified and is mostly holes still today.
Exactly right - we don't know. We have hypotheses, but we really don't know - that doesn't mean "well, a god must have done it" - we simply don't know, and it might be impossible for us to EVER know.
Just to repeat - I don't dispute the random mutation over time for living things. However there are holes in Evolution, like sudden bursts of new forms worldwide regardless of climate and the absence of any massive condition changes going on simultaneously, with no immediate forms identified previous. It's almost as if they 'pop in' out of seemingly nowhere.
You can poke holes in the postulates and hypotheses all you want - there's plenty of holes I'm certain - can you come up with a BETTER explanation? "God did it" is not an explanation. HOW did god do it?
It may be that the Cambrian explosion happened when there was some sort of catastrophe to upset the balance. Who knows?
For all we know, God is a force of nature itself, why is it believed to be sentient? Just because a bunch of child predators collected a bunch of stories from a bunch of barbarians, and deemed it "the word of god"?
For all we know, God is a force of nature itself, why is it believed to be sentient? Just because a bunch of child predators collected a bunch of stories from a bunch of barbarians, and deemed it "the word of god"?
Evolution and Origin of Life are two separate topics. The planet Earth is not a closed system. The chances of organic matters on earth spontaneously form into RNA, DNA or Protein are much much lower than some random cryo-resistant radiation-resistant RNA strand landing on earth. In fact, IIRC, we already know many space rocks carry RNA strands that can survive the low-temperature and high radiation environment of space. As for where RNA strands on space rocks came from, that could have been an environment very different from anything we know on earth.
As for religion vs. atheism, I don't believe it is possible to sustain a society without some kind of faith.
richwicks saysFor all we know, God is a force of nature itself, why is it believed to be sentient? Just because a bunch of child predators collected a bunch of stories from a bunch of barbarians, and deemed it "the word of god"?
Again, why God? Why not Sheldon from the Year 5000 AD running an Ancestor simulation on his Titan based supercooled computer farm and changing/inserting new data during it?
I'm willing to dabble in the possibility of a god, but trust me, many religious people aren't willing to even accept the possibility that what has been dogmatically programmed into their head from childhood, that they've been simply propagandized.
If there is some sort or God, it's obviously beyond any human's comprehension. I rather resent people that claim to "know God" - nobody does. It's entirely personal and it's untestable. It's well outside the realm of rational investigation.
I have SOME concept of how evolution could have brought us about, but I have NO idea about a higher power.
drop a bunch of, I dunno, bunnies on a deserted island with edible vegetation, in a million years, if you kept it isolated and untouched, I bet you'd find a bunch of animals that are dog like, cat like, bunny like, etc. At SOME POINT a bunny will realize cannibalism works.. As time goes on you'd expect it's progeny to also learn this and adapt to it.
Some ancient ancestor that left no fossil record at all evolved into plankton and trilobites - or that is the thinking. Most organisms have no indication they ever existed. There may have been complex human civilizations 30,000 years ago or 100,000 years ago that have left no trace. You're talking about BILLIONS of years ago.
It could be that life independently started several times on Earth, and there is no common ancestor between plankton and trilobites. There sure seems to be among mammals though.
Now, drop a bunch of, I dunno, bunnies on a deserted island with edible vegetation, in a million years, if you kept it isolated and untouched, I bet you'd find a bunch of animals that are dog like, cat like, bunny like, etc. At SOME POINT a bunny will realize cannibalism works.. As time goes on you'd expect it's progeny to also learn this and adapt to it.
If there is some sort or God, it's obviously beyond any human's comprehension.
but he literally cited personal experience for his belief in the truth of not only the origins of life but the creation of the universe itself. Twas low hanging fruit.
Christians and Catholics do to some extent, but not enough. Jewish people will take it as direct personal insult to the Whole of Judaism if you deride a single Jew. They make it out to be like you're condemning all Jews. Christians will join you in condemning a bad Christian and call for that person to be thrown out of the Church.
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My stance: Just happened!