patrick.net

If people want a phone that doesn't spy on them, they have to have a stripped down OS that they can understand, that will trivially monitor inbound and outbound connections.

It has to be simple enough so that that a typical coder can understand the OS (i.e. an embedded OS) and move the complexity up into libraries.

The problem with OSes is they are monolithic. Understanding Linux is a tremendous task, understanding Windows is an impossible task. This was done for efficiency reasons back in the day, but building an OS on top of a kernel, like MACH, that's still doable. This is a software abstraction of the hardware itself. The OS runs on top of another OS, a very simple OS. This was once called a Board Support Package.

Kernels allow you to run multiple operating systems on a single device, often simultaneously. NO hardware is directly accessible, and you can always detect access to the hardware through the interface. I think this will have to be done at some point to guarantee security.

If you had, for example, a virus running on your phone, you'd be able to detect the outbound data packets on it, and the incoming data packets on it. What files were modified, which parts of the storage were written or sent out, and what devices were activated. This was impractical 20 years ago because we were running on 200 Mhz machines, but it's entirely practical now at the cost of a bit of battery life - and my phone runs fine for weeks without a charge when its unused. I have a junk phone I use only for wifi access, and screwing around on (it's got damaged screen), I can leave that thing sitting on the counter for 2 weeks, and it goes from 100% charge to 90% charge over that time.

We can even further secure the devices, by using the kernel to require certified binaries only be run, and to expand the storage, to not only record things like date and time, but the applications that created them. This has already been figured out, but it's purposely not implemented. It's trivial to eliminate viruses, and to guarantee secure communication - the reason it's not done, is the government doesn't want it done.

I worked on the XBox project. One of the main concerns on developing that system was PREVENTING unauthorized code from running on it. Why? Because MS sold the machine for BELOW COST to gain marketshare. They make up the cost differential because for each game sold, they receive a cut of the sale. So, they might sell the first revision of their machine for $300, but it cost $500 to make, but they expected 10 games to be bought by a user on average, so they would initially break even. Then they cost reduce and the box to $400 to make, then $300, then $250, then $200 and so on. As they do this, they also reduce the cost of the game machine to gain market share.

What they were terrified of, is a company could run arbitrary software on it, and cut out MS from their fee, or even worse, making a machine that kicked ass, that was a full replacement for a desktop, that could act as a server. Game machines, are no longer toys, they are as powerful as servers. They do not want you to be able to use them as full machines, just toys - but games have to have a digital signature, this could be done with any machine, that would obliterate viruses - but they don't. Why do you think that is?

Machines are PURPOSELY built with backdoors, and phones, they are the worst. Nobody cares about desktops today, they care about your personal communication.

richwicks says

I worked on the XBox project.

Fuck that device. Fuck it hard. Apple can take all my shit for all I care, new devices are set up in minutes not hours. I don't game but my kids do, it's the worst platform I've ever encountered. So convoluted and retarded to be honest. I'm no techie, but I've build mediocre websites that worked well for real estate. Xbox (currently) is not intuitive and is a shit show. Maybe it was better when you worked on it, as again I don't play video games.

We've spent hours doing something to get the kids a game or whatever. The feedback is the exact same from other parents. My one buddy just rebuilt the JP Morgan investment site for trading. Even he said Xbox is a shit show. I've seen the dude work, his keyboard is on fire.

https://puri.sm/posts/internet-of-snitches/

Imagine an Internet of Snitches, each scanning whatever data they have access to for evidence of crime. Beyond the OS itself, individual phone apps could start looking for contraband. Personal computers would follow their lead. Home network file servers could pore through photos, videos and file backups for CSAM and maybe even evidence of copyright infringement. Home routers could scan any unencrypted network traffic. Your voice assistant could use machine learning to decide when yelling in a household crosses the line into abuse. Your printer could analyze the documents and photos you send it.

I want a phone that kicks larry and serge in the nuts and take a massive shit on their faces every time I make a call and hundreds of times a second when I don't/

https://reclaimthenet.org/how-to-install-grapheneos-on-a-pixel-smartphone/

Patrick says

Your printer could analyze the documents and photos you send it.

Already does to some extent.

WookieMan says

richwicks says

I worked on the XBox project.

Fuck that device. Fuck it hard. Apple can take all my shit for all I care, new devices are set up in minutes not hours. I don't game but my kids do, it's the worst platform I've ever encountered. So convoluted and retarded to be honest. I'm no techie, but I've build mediocre websites that worked well for real estate. Xbox (currently) is not intuitive and is a shit show. Maybe it was better when you worked on it, as again I don't play video games.

I am unoffended. I'm a contractor. Some people would call me a mercenary for hire, but I know what I really am. I'm a prostitute. I'm a whore.

If your kids like video games, look into the retroarcade. Maybe your kids need the "latest and greatest", but if they just want to play video games, I have a library of over 10,000 of them, not to play (my life isn't that long), but to preserve.

For < $100, you can have a raspberry pi, running retroarcade with more video games on it, than any one person can play in a lifetime. Also, it burns less than 10 watts.

https://retropie.org.uk/

The last time I tried to play a modern arcade game was 10 years ago. When I was a kid, a video game was a 10 minute distraction, that at worst could be a 2 hour struggle to win. Today, video games are just ordeals, that take WEEKS to get through. Want a blast from the past?

http://impossible-mission.krissz.hu/

That's one of the toughest video games I conquered as a kid. I can still beat it, and I recently have, but there's no enjoyment in it.

Stay awhile, Stay Forever!!!

richwicks says

I worked on the XBox project.

That's interesting.

One fun thing about tech is that your work is often used by millions of people.

I worked on a phone (the Nextel phone) that was used by millions. And many well-known websites. Not that I did a huge part of any of them.

Patrick says

richwicks says

I worked on the XBox project.

That's interesting.

One fun thing about tech is that your work is often used by millions of people.

I worked on a phone (the Nextel phone) that was used by millions. And many well-known websites. Not that I did a huge part of any of them.

It's a feather in your cap to work on something that nearly everybody knows about.

I just did DV - Design Verification. I wrote tests to confirm the hardware worked properly, in simulation and emulation - the emulator is the size of 2 refrigerators, that ran at 100 Khz that could accept PORTIONS of the design and arrangements needed to be made to power it, and ventilation had to be constructed to keep the lab cool. That machine was as expensive as a 20 room mansion is.

I honestly find technology boring today. Why get an XBox or PS5 or whatever? The only advancement in these systems is better graphics, but shit - they're good enough now. The difference in graphics from XBox1 and the 360 - it's minimal. Sure, it's better, but not the difference between a PS1 and a PS2.

I wrote the AT command set parser on the Nextel phone. Not that anyone uses a modem with a phone anymore.

I also rewrote the credit card form on Craigslist which all their revenue goes through.

Patrick says

I wrote the AT command set parser on the Nextel phone. Not that anyone uses a modem with a phone anymore.

I also rewrote the credit card form on Craigslist which all their revenue goes through.

This is why I hated DV. It needs to be done, but none of my work is used by the public.

If you ever use a DC fast charger from ChargePoint - I wrote the communication stack for that. I'm probably North America's expert on that communication protocol, and it's a TERRIBLE protocol. So terrible that I quit in disgust that there was no pushback on it. My superiors simply didn't understand there was an intent to make a monopoly on several fronts. The whole "green energy revolution" is rife with corruption, and I know corruption having volunteered for a few charities, which are mostly just ways to take donations for a problem, when there is no intention of fixing the problem.

Electric cars, in my opinion, are a total scam - but my code is everywhere now. Have to find something more worthwhile to do with my limited time on earth than to work for the mafia.

https://nitter.pussthecat.org/SlowNewsDayShow/status/1440806818133929987#m

https://reclaimthenet.org/data-broker-handed-over-smartphone-gps-data-to-dc-government-for-covid-research/

The EFF, a digital rights group, says it has seen public records (obtained here) that show location data broker Veraset and the District of Columbia (DC) government had struck a deal early in the Covid pandemic last year, allowing the latter full access to highly sensitive, individually identifiable GPS data, harvested from people’s mobile devices in the DC area.

Veraset made the offer and DC authorities accepted it, which was followed by half a year of updates coming from the company – that operates a proprietary database for this data, meaning that Veraset’s tools cannot be audited or scrutinized by the public – tracking hundreds of thousands of people going about their day.

At 3AM in the morning, I often wonder if going after Craigslist and others for "Pushing Prostitution" was an excuse to clear the path for for-profit companies, like Facebook Marketplace (which I refuse to use) and even Zillow.

I used to work at Craigslist and I believe that was indeed the case.

It was purely an anti-competitive move by bigger companies like Facebook.

https://reclaimthenet.org/israel-is-using-counter-terrorism-phone-surveillance-to-track-omicron-carriers/

November 30, 2021
Israel is using counter-terrorism phone surveillance to track Omicron carriers
The implementation could be illegal.

I'm fucking sick of smartphones. My work seems to have endless reasons why they want me to use my personal phone. So far I've told them I don't have a data plan, but there's wifi, so sure that won't hold up forever. As soon as I have time, going to look into prepaid shit phones that don't have app capability. The internet and cellphones have become so locked down it's ridiculous.

Time to De-Google.. See Rob Braxman on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVL1Xr7IEsY&source=patrick.net
Best Privacy phone. Rob seems very intelligent

NuttBoxer says

As soon as I have time, going to look into prepaid shit phones that don't have app capability.

L8star Small Mini flip Cell Phone Magic Voice Changer Bluetooth Dialer Cellphone BM60 ca. 35 $
your employer's brain would freeze - they would have no idea what to do with this!

NuttBoxer says

I'm fucking sick of smartphones. My work seems to have endless reasons why they want me to use my personal phone. So far I've told them I don't have a data plan, but there's wifi, so sure that won't hold up forever. As soon as I have time, going to look into prepaid shit phones that don't have app capability. The internet and cellphones have become so locked down it's ridiculous.

Motorola F3: no GPS, no contacts, no nothing. =))

Finding a non-smartphone that is supported by carriers is tricky. Was looking at nokia 3310, but not sure there's any carriers who support it, and will allow me to remain anonymous.

NuttBoxer says

Finding a non-smartphone that is supported by carriers is tricky. Was looking at nokia 3310, but not sure there's any carriers who support it, and will allow me to remain anonymous.

If a phone is capable of using US GSM frequencies it will be supported by the carriers.

Anyone found a good privacy friendly phone yet?

My moto g5 plus is flaking out and I don't want another phone that constantly spies on me.

I was looking at Ubuntu touch which can run on my Pixel.

Is there any truth to a new Tesla phone coming out? It is supposed to be 100% private.

joshuatrio says

Anyone found a good privacy friendly phone yet?

My moto g5 plus is flaking out and I don't want another phone that constantly spies on me.

Motorola F3.

NuttBoxer says

I'm fucking sick of smartphones. My work seems to have endless reasons why they want me to use my personal phone. So far I've told them I don't have a data plan, but there's wifi, so sure that won't hold up forever. As soon as I have time, going to look into prepaid shit phones that don't have app capability. The internet and cellphones have become so locked down it's ridiculous.

I started accumulating cheap smartphones and tablets for this reason (can often buy them for $30-50). Sometimes its tough to avoid installing an app to use some handy device, but I refuse to allow some chinese app to invade my phone. So I just keep a dummy device that uses a throwaway email address and no contacts / personal info etc... and install the apps on that, keeping my real phone clean. I don't even bother with a sim, just wifi.

2FA is becoming popular, especially for those who work in tech companies, and they seem to want their employees to use their personal phones to either install the 2FA app, or to receive text messages. A 2nd dummy device can work well for this use case too.

Hircus says

I started accumulating cheap smartphones and tablets for this reason

I like this idea.

Hircus says

2FA is becoming popular, especially for those who work in tech companies, and they seem to want their employees to use their personal phones to either install the 2FA app, or to receive text messages. A 2nd dummy device can work well for this use case too.

At one previous company, I just ran a phone emulator on my laptop to run the 2FA app.

clambo says

I was looking at Ubuntu touch which can run on my Pixel.

Ubuntu is less privacy focused than they used to be. Started when they introduced their new app store, wanna say it's called Unity back in lts16 I believe.

Hircus says

2FA is becoming popular, especially for those who work in tech companies, and they seem to want their employees to use their personal phones to either install the 2FA app, or to receive text messages. A 2nd dummy device can work well for this use case too.

For this I signed up for 1Password using an email not associated to me. Works well, and if my employer removes that option, will insist they send me a fob.

WineHorror1 says

Is there any truth to a new Tesla phone coming out? It is supposed to be 100% private.

I would trust Tesla anything as much as Windows anything. Musk is a wolf in sheeps clothing, and possible the first AI human due to his neural net implants.

Could anyone explain what 2FA is please?

Simplest explanation, it's bullshit. A lazy man's excuse for not making a good password.

Longer explanation, it's a second authentication method meant to verify only you have access to that site/account/data. First method is your password, second can be a text, push notification, or randomly generated code sent to your fob or password manager.

But if you use a password manager to create unique passwords of 20+ characters for every account you have, that is WAY better security than any secondary authentication.

My opinion, and I think there's a strong case, is dual auth/2fa was created to track us. 99% of people who use 2FA do it from a personal cellphone.

2FA = Two Factor Authentication.

NuttBoxer says

But if you use a password manager to create unique passwords of 20+ characters for every account you have, that is WAY better security than any secondary authentication.

I dont see how one could backup such an argument. 2FA clearly offers meaningful security benefits that you cannot get by just making your password stronger. Whatever strong password you use, will always be improved upon by adding 2FA to it.

A strong password ONLY defends against attackers who try to guess your password. It does nothing to prevent them from copying your password. 2FA adds strong protection against both. 2FA defends against a different category of attacks that using only a strong password cannot help with. It's a fact.

Here's an example: a strong password is easily copied and successfully reused by an attacker some minutes/hours/days in the future. If the account had 2FA enabled, the attacker could not succeed merely by copying attacks, because they cannot copy a 2FA token, because they're 1 time use and expire in a short period of time.

The typical setup where people use a laptop/desktop with a password manager program locally installed as their main computer / web browser benefits by using 2FA on a separate device. There's many cases where an attack / compromise may be made on the laptop, even if just temporarily, or partially, but the attackers ability to gain access to their online accounts is still not successful because they have not also compromised the separate 2FA device.

Even power users, like us software engineers, benefit from 2FA. There's so many attacks that a keen eye just cannot avoid, much less realize they have even occurred.

Using 2FA on a physically separate device is a significant security boost.

Ok, I understand what 2FA is now. I have a Stripe account for my business. Every time I log in, I get a text with a code which I then have to enter in order to complete the log in. How could a person defeat that? No one else has my phone.

Hircus says

It does nothing to prevent them from copying your password. 2FA adds strong protection against both. 2FA defends against a different category of attacks that using only a strong password cannot help with. It's a fact.

How will they copy my password? You're talking about a key logger? Or physically stealing my device? Neither of those would work since I copy my password from a password manager that's set to wipe it from clipboard five seconds after I copy it. My password manager password you say? I don't have one. USB key. And my laptop is encrypted. So unless they jack my laptop while I'm on it, and make sure to get my usb card, they won't have shit.

But what about 2FA, you think it's fullproof? Texts can't be intercepted? Apps can't be spoofed? Any good security expert will tell you another layer of complexity, poorly implemented is actually providing a bigger attack surface, not making you more secure. And if you're not using a password manager(offline preferably), I fucking guarantee your 2FA implementation will leave you exposed.

WineHorror1 says

How could a person defeat that? No one else has my phone.

You are aware cellphones get hacked just like any other computer right? Texts are not a secure method of communication. You are now dependent on Stripe, AND your mobile carrier to keep things patched and up to date.

Also, most hacking is social, or contains huge social components. Years ago I was able to get concert tickets sent to a new email just by calling ticketmaster, without providing any proof I had purchased them, or owned the existing email.

NuttBoxer says

How will they copy my password? You're talking about a key logger? Or physically stealing my device? Neither of those would work since I copy my password from a password manager that's set to wipe it from clipboard five seconds after I copy it. My password manager password you say? I don't have one. USB key. And my laptop is encrypted. So unless they jack my laptop while I'm on it, and make sure to get my usb card, they won't have shit.

Sounds like you put some good effort and thought into it, and have a good setup that reduces the number of attack vectors. But your password can still be copied, and 2FA would help in many of those scenarios. Exploits have existed in the past, and will exist in the future for your OS, browser, extensions, and other software. Every bit of software is a potential vector. Sometimes they allow an attacker root access, but more often they dont - they allow some limited access that lets them read or write a file, or trigger an action, and they get clever and combine things to manipulate other software on the system to do their dirt for them. This is the magic of additional security layers - it makes it more difficult for someone w/ non root to do these things, and often still helps even when they get root. Additional security layers are the safety net for when something goes wrong, and things do go wrong.

Even if the copying doesn't occur on your computer, it can happen in transit, or on the remote server.

Anyway, I don't think were really talking about you specifically, are we? Were talking about users and 2FA in general.

NuttBoxer says

2FA, you think it's fullproof?

I never said that, nor did I imply it. I always used relative improvement terms like "security boost".

NuttBoxer says

Any good security expert will tell you another layer of complexity, poorly implemented is actually providing a bigger attac...

Ya, poorly implemented. I would bet BIG BUCKS that the vast majority of users of the vast majority of 2FA implementations significantly enhance security. And I bet security experts would bet with me, not against me on that.



NuttBoxer says

I fucking guarantee your 2FA implementation will leave you exposed.

How? The benefit of using 2FA is they need both the password and the 2FA token. Exploiting 2FA alone buys you nothing.